Researching Purchase... Is this a good deal?

[Shawn]

Howdy all,

Just starting the process in researching purchasing what would be the right fit for me as my first plane. Ran across this one and wanted to get a feel if it is a good deal, great deal, or nothing special.

$54,000.00
Clean 1976 182P
Interior is in good condition
New Tires & Battery
Current Annual & Ready to Fly
TOTAL TIME 4814
Time since OH 1340
Long Range Tanks
No Damage History
Flap Gap Seal Kit
Annual was completed 1/2013

PANEL INCLUDES

KA 134 S AUDIO CONSOLE GARMIN GPS 150
KX 155 NAV COM w/ Glide Slope KX 155 NAV COM
KX-76A TRANSPONDER TELEX 4 PLACE S-ICS
MARKER RECEIVER

Now about me...other than goofing off with sightseeing and $100 hamburger runs, primary use would be commuting from Nor Cal to So Cal, mostly work related every other week or so...about a 275nm trip. I am on the not smaller side (230lbs) and would like to have the option to take a few people and bags if needed for an overnight trip. Figure my budget would be around $50k tops when I decide to pull the trigger, but do not necessary want to spend that much if I do not have to but am willing to if it means not regretting a decision later.

Not looking for a discussion that to fly commercial will be cheaper, that is a given!...and not the point...cuz who is really into aviation for the cost savings anyway?

If all goes well, will hopefully have my private pilot certificate late summer/early fall which is when I would be actually looking more seriously...but wanted to get some input from those of you that ACTUALLY know what you are doing on a bird like this for a rookie like me in my scenario!

 

[jtheune]

You may need to look at a top overhaul as 470s often won't make TBO without one. Your avionics look a little thin. You don't say if you have a IFR certificate or not. For a commute in that area you will likely have to deal with low clouds and fog off the coast so if you need to be semi reliable for the commute your really need to consider that. I have a 77 Q model and really like it. I think your mission would be very doable in a 182P if you address the IFR and avionics issues.

 

[poadeleted21]

slim avionics, though 182s tend to have that. Engine is 160 hrs until TBO. You can keep running it past TBO if you want but the engine won't owe you anything after 1500hrs

I think it's priced right if you'll be ready to spend another $25K on it the next few years.

 

[Skylane81E]

slim avionics, though 182s tend to have that. Engine is 160 hrs until TBO. You can keep running it past TBO if you want but the engine won't owe you anything after 1500hrs

I think it's priced right if you'll be ready to spend another $25K on it the next few years.

Agreed, I think the price is likely spot on, not a killer deal, but not a rip off either.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

No damage history (may) = we didn't bother to write it in the logs. I don't seem to see any comments on the paint...which means it probably desperately needs $10K in paint and cosmetic work.

Interior is in good condition = no one wanted to sit on the avocado green seats.

The engine is probably run out and you'll be dropping $25K on that before you know it.

Just kidding...

If you're budget to purchase is max of $50K, this is probably too much for you to chew on. You may be better off looking for an older 182 that is in better condition. Even with that, I think a $50K budget for any 182 that is going to be used as a travelling machine is asking a bit much.

 

[Shawn]

Your avionics look a little thin. You don't say if you have a IFR certificate or not.

No IFR, but would eventually be working towards that in the long run

if you need to be semi reliable for the commute your really need to consider that

Would not NEED to rely on it for transportation while flying VFR, really just more of the excuse and convenience to justify a purchase since I do move around the state a LOT!

I think it's priced right if you'll be ready to spend another $25K on it the next few years.

Perfect, this is the type of feedback I am looking for

No damage history (may) = we didn't bother to write it in the logs. I don't seem to see any comments on the paint...which means it probably desperately needs $10K in paint and cosmetic work.

Interior is in good condition = no one wanted to sit on the avocado green seats.

Actually saw some pics and it is one of the cleanest I have seen in looking around...interior wise anyway. Not that I am in a position to pull the trigger on this plane (unless it was an UNBELIEVABLY exceptional deal, which is sounds like not)

If you're budget to purchase is max of $50K, this is probably too much for you to chew on. You may be better off looking for an older 182 that is in better condition. Even with that, I think a $50K budget for any 182 that is going to be used as a travelling machine is asking a bit much.

This is where I am looking for guidance as to what to be looking out for and what type of plane would fit me.

Thanks all, keep it coming!

 

[weilke]

Here are my cynical comments:

New Tires & Battery

How long did this plane sit for both the battery to die and the tires to go square ?

Current Annual & Ready to Fly

My buddy who works for the airline pencil-whipped it.

TOTAL TIME 4814

176 more hours and it'll be 'high time'.

Time since OH 1340

Who was president when it was overhauled last ?

Compressions, bore-scope, used oil analysis.... This engine doesn't make much power and some of them last a really long time. But sometimes it doesn't, and an overhaul is in the high 20s, with all the stuff that has to be done once you pull that engine off (e.g. hoses, prop, labor), you are looking at 35k+) The economics of old six cylinder aircraft are pretty grisly.

Long Range Tanks

I believe that vintage has bladders. Have they been replaced yet ?

No Damage History

At least nothing that was documented.

PANEL INCLUDES

Silver Crown in all it's glory.

KA 134 S AUDIO CONSOLE GARMIN GPS 150
KX 155 NAV COM w/ Glide Slope KX 155 NAV COM
KX-76A TRANSPONDER TELEX 4 PLACE S-ICS
MARKER RECEIVER

The GPS is VFR only and pretty much obsolete.

Depending on the airports at either end of your commute, the non-GPS avionics may not be an issue.

With a lot of people upgrading to GTN type units and once the Avidyne box starts deliveries, the price on used GNS430s should come down. A year from now, you may be able to pick up a 430 for reasonable money and after you sell one of the KX155s, the cost will be below 10k to get WAAS GPS capability.


If '50k' is your budget, this plane may not be for you. You need to look for a 40k plane if 50k is the budget.

Do you need the payload and climb performance of a 182 ? For your stated 'mission' of 275nm, the 20kts extra are not going to make a tremendous difference.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Overpriced, too many hours since OH, avionics suck, IMHO that's a 30k plane.

Are you willing to look nation wide? Often people will live in states like CA and only look in that typically overpriced area, heck had one guy pay 10k to repaint a 150 lol

Keep on it, barnstormers, ASO, aerotrader and craigslist (google "all of craigslist").

 

[poadeleted21]

Overpriced, too many hours since OH, avionics suck, IMHO that's a 30k plane.

Are you willing to look nation wide? Often people will live in states like CA and only look in that typically overpriced area, heck had one guy pay 10k to repaint a 150 lol

Keep on it, barnstormers, ASO, aerotrader and craigslist (google "all of craigslist").

If you see a similar one for 30K, my checkbook is open.

 

[Shawn]

Here are my cynical comments...

Starting to understand...reading an airplane listing is like reading a sectional chart for the first time ever...makese no sense at first glance and you need to learn to read between the lines to make sense of it all!...love it.

If '50k' is your budget, this plane may not be for you. You need to look for a 40k plane if 50k is the budget.

I am comfortable with the $50k taking into account operation and annual costs...however, wouldn't wanna spend that only to have to PLAN to drop another $25k after year one.

Are you willing to look nation wide? Often people will live in states like CA and only look in that typically overpriced area

Plan on looking everywhere if the right deal pops up...but closer is always easier to go kick the tires and get it back to the Left Coast

If you see a similar one for 30K, my checkbook is open.

...no kidding!

 

[hindsight2020]

You guys are rough crowd. And way pessimistic. I flogged a post TBO O-320 warrior for 220hrs and compressions actually went up. I too happen to be in the market for a 182 and my price range is the same as the OP. I think in this market he could low ball that airplane about 10K. I can't speak for the emotional state of the seller or the economics of his financing/equity situation wrt the airplane. Not the buyer's problem.

Overhauling a 0-470 for 30K? LOL Top overhaul by necessity?¿ You guys ever heard of IRAN? You guys aren't doing your homework right. I can get a major OH done in Texas for under 20K, hell I'll throw in a replacement serviceable crank into that number. Last time I checked there was a recession going on. You guys may not be in it, but a lot of shops are hurting for business. As to engines not owing you anything post TBO? Hell, engines don't owe you anything PRIOR to TBO either, so the way I see it the man is ahead of the game by running post TBO rather than the guy who pays a premium on someone elses paper overhaul and now has to pay twice for the same work. I'm certainly not averse to running post TBO. Clearly you guys are. To each their own.

OP, I think that airplane is fine for what you want. As a matter of fact I strongly recommend going into an 182 instead of a lower performance 4 banger (which is the series of step ups I did) since it's unlikely you'll outgrow the performance of a 182. Most likely your wallet will be the limiting factor to upgrade out of it. That IMO is the smartest way about getting into ownership. Last airplane first. Buying and selling is a pain. A 182 should give you years of enjoyment.

And remember, a lot of the folks on here like to keep their birds in better than required shape. That's their personal philosophy, not gospel. You don't need 75K to be allowed into the bona fide 182 owners club. Buying a $40-50K 182 does not mean you'll automatically have to replace bladders, overhaul the engine and dump a new paintjob the second you buy it. That's advice from those who take pride in having airplanes samples at the top end of mechanical recency. I do not scoff that, but do not be bullied into thinking their approach to expenditures is the only bona fide way to own and operate a 182.

As to acquisition, again a lot of people are stuck in 2006. This economy doesn't support those 80K 182 prices, by watching ads for 182Ps going on 6 months now. What are those people thinking?! You can find a mechanically sound /G 182 for between $40-50K in this economy. If the seller won't play, move on to the next. I do agree in that probably looking at older ones might bring in an easier time matching the specs. P models aren't the only decent 182 models out there. I do recommend you stick to post 68' models or pre-68 if they've had the shotgun panel converted to a IFR usable format. But that's my bias since I'll be doing lite IMC flying with my family SUV as required.

I'm in the process of looking for a 182 in your price range as well and would be more than glad to share the details of my purchase once I acquire it. In this economy, haggle haggle haggle! Good luck to you.

 

[denverpilot]

slim avionics, though 182s tend to have that. Engine is 160 hrs until TBO. You can keep running it past TBO if you want but the engine won't owe you anything after 1500hrs

I think it's priced right if you'll be ready to spend another $25K on it the next few years.

Some of the 1976 model year has the O-470U, which is a 2000 hour TBO, but how it has been operated weighs heavily on if it makes it to that.

Agreed its going to need an engine sooner than later, even if its a "U".

Also if its a "U" it doesn't qualify for the MoGas STC if that makes any difference to the OP.

 

[wabower]

Maybe all this big talk would be more credible if you had done it rather than just telling everybody how you're going to do it.

You guys are rough crowd. And way pessimistic. I flogged a post TBO O-320 warrior for 220hrs and compressions actually went up. I too happen to be in the market for a 182 and my price range is the same as the OP. I think in this market he could low ball that airplane about 10K. I can't speak for the emotional state of the seller or the economics of his financing/equity situation wrt the airplane. Not the buyer's problem.

Overhauling a 0-470 for 30K? LOL Top overhaul by necessity?¿ You guys ever heard of IRAN? You guys aren't doing your homework right. I can get a major OH done in Texas for under 20K, hell I'll throw in a replacement serviceable crank into that number. Last time I checked there was a recession going on. You guys may not be in it, but a lot of shops are hurting for business. As to engines not owing you anything post TBO? Hell, engines don't owe you anything PRIOR to TBO either, so the way I see it the man is ahead of the game by running post TBO rather than the guy who pays a premium on someone elses paper overhaul and now has to pay twice for the same work. I'm certainly not averse to running post TBO. Clearly you guys are. To each their own.

OP, I think that airplane is fine for what you want. As a matter of fact I strongly recommend going into an 182 instead of a lower performance 4 banger (which is the series of step ups I did) since it's unlikely you'll outgrow the performance of a 182. Most likely your wallet will be the limiting factor to upgrade out of it. That IMO is the smartest way about getting into ownership. Last airplane first. Buying and selling is a pain. A 182 should give you years of enjoyment.

And remember, a lot of the folks on here like to keep their birds in better than required shape. That's their personal philosophy, not gospel. You don't need 75K to be allowed into the bona fide 182 owners club. Buying a $40-50K 182 does not mean you'll automatically have to replace bladders, overhaul the engine and dump a new paintjob the second you buy it. That's advice from those who take pride in having airplanes samples at the top end of mechanical recency. I do not scoff that, but do not be bullied into thinking their approach to expenditures is the only bona fide way to own and operate a 182.

As to acquisition, again a lot of people are stuck in 2006. This economy doesn't support those 80K 182 prices, by watching ads for 182Ps going on 6 months now. What are those people thinking?! You can find a mechanically sound /G 182 for between $40-50K in this economy. If the seller won't play, move on to the next. I do agree in that probably looking at older ones might bring in an easier time matching the specs. P models aren't the only decent 182 models out there. I do recommend you stick to post 68' models or pre-68 if they've had the shotgun panel converted to a IFR usable format. But that's my bias since I'll be doing lite IMC flying with my family SUV as required.

I'm in the process of looking for a 182 in your price range as well and would be more than glad to share the details of my purchase once I acquire it. In this economy, haggle haggle haggle! Good luck to you.

 

[poadeleted21]

You guys are rough crowd. And way pessimistic. I flogged a post TBO O-320 warrior for 220hrs and compressions actually went up. I too happen to be in the market for a 182 and my price range is the same as the OP. I think in this market he could low ball that airplane about 10K. I can't speak for the emotional state of the seller or the economics of his financing/equity situation wrt the airplane. Not the buyer's problem.

Overhauling a 0-470 for 30K? LOL Top overhaul by necessity?¿ You guys ever heard of IRAN? You guys aren't doing your homework right. I can get a major OH done in Texas for under 20K, hell I'll throw in a replacement serviceable crank into that number. Last time I checked there was a recession going on. You guys may not be in it, but a lot of shops are hurting for business. As to engines not owing you anything post TBO? Hell, engines don't owe you anything PRIOR to TBO either, so the way I see it the man is ahead of the game by running post TBO rather than the guy who pays a premium on someone elses paper overhaul and now has to pay twice for the same work. I'm certainly not averse to running post TBO. Clearly you guys are. To each their own.

OP, I think that airplane is fine for what you want. As a matter of fact I strongly recommend going into an 182 instead of a lower performance 4 banger (which is the series of step ups I did) since it's unlikely you'll outgrow the performance of a 182. Most likely your wallet will be the limiting factor to upgrade out of it. That IMO is the smartest way about getting into ownership. Last airplane first. Buying and selling is a pain. A 182 should give you years of enjoyment.

And remember, a lot of the folks on here like to keep their birds in better than required shape. That's their personal philosophy, not gospel. You don't need 75K to be allowed into the bona fide 182 owners club. Buying a $40-50K 182 does not mean you'll automatically have to replace bladders, overhaul the engine and dump a new paintjob the second you buy it. That's advice from those who take pride in having airplanes samples at the top end of mechanical recency. I do not scoff that, but do not be bullied into thinking their approach to expenditures is the only bona fide way to own and operate a 182.

As to acquisition, again a lot of people are stuck in 2006. This economy doesn't support those 80K 182 prices, by watching ads for 182Ps going on 6 months now. What are those people thinking?! You can find a mechanically sound /G 182 for between $40-50K in this economy. If the seller won't play, move on to the next. I do agree in that probably looking at older ones might bring in an easier time matching the specs. P models aren't the only decent 182 models out there. I do recommend you stick to post 68' models or pre-68 if they've had the shotgun panel converted to a IFR usable format. But that's my bias since I'll be doing lite IMC flying with my family SUV as required.

I'm in the process of looking for a 182 in your price range as well and would be more than glad to share the details of my purchase once I acquire it. In this economy, haggle haggle haggle! Good luck to you.

Good luck with the 182 acquisition. Shouldn't take long. You sound like the perfect buyer.

 

[Old Geek]

Get the FAA documentation log CD from the FAA and review it.

 

[wabower]

Get the FAA documentation log CD from the FAA and review it.

And then hope like hell they don't find a case crack or whiskers from a cam lobe in the filter during the first oil change after you buy it. But nah, that never happens.

 

[rbridges]

if your budget is 50K, don't buy a 50K plane. You need to have a reserve to tackle any unexpected expenses. You don't want your 55K plane grounded b/c you can't afford to replace a cylinder.

 

[Jaybird180]

Wayne and Bart - I want you guys on my team when I buy (again).

 

[weilke]

I am comfortable with the $50k taking into account operation and annual costs...however, wouldn't wanna spend that only to have to PLAN to drop another $25k after year one.

That is a pessimistic worst case scenario if you get one that either requires major engine work or has corrosion/structural damage not detected during the pre-buy inspection. Unless you already know the plane and its maintenance, expect to spend a couple of k in the first year to fix stuff. Even if you already know the plane, expect to spend a couple of k to fix stuff (planes know once $500 has accumulated in your bank account)

Even though this plane is being sold with a 'fresh annual', dont get bamboozeled into thinking that everything has to be a-ok and you can skip the pre-buy inspection. More than one first aircraft buyer has been taken by sellers who had disreputable mechanics sign off on their planes condition. The pre-buy inspection is to be performed by YOUR mechanic and not someone who has a pre-existing business relationship with the seller.

Btw. 182s if that is what you want are very common. Rather than trying to find the cheapest plane posted on the 'trades' from 1/2 way across the country, see if you can find one locally. Find a good local mechanic first, ask around, find out who does honest work. Talk to him.

Often there is a nice plane sitting in a local hangar that the seller just hasn't gone through the hassle of putting it on the market or has withdrawn it from the market when he got frustrated with the process. Ideally, this would be a plane that is being actively flown and maintained but the owner has his eyes on the next thing.

 

[Skylane81E]

Shawn, always a good rule of thumb to expect to spend half the purchase price on the first couple annuals to get it up to your standard. Buy smart and you may not have to, or you will have to but got the plane at a price reflecting the work needed. Buy dumb and odds are good you will get screwed.

Prebuy prebuy prebuy!!!!!!!

 

[poadeleted20]

You guys are rough crowd. And way pessimistic.

Yes, we are. And we have the experience to back our pessimism. The airplane may be a good deal, but odds are against it for the intended purpose. Big issues are probably engine overhaul in the foreseeable future and thin avionics for IR training and IFR commuting. Figure an overhaul and a good 21st century IFR nav system (like swapping the GPS 150 and one KX-155 for a GNS 430W/650) and there's another $40K in the airplane.

 

[Shawn]

You guys are rough crowd. And way pessimistic.

I actually appreciate the pessimistic view. Need to know what the worst case scenarios are and what to look out for during the process.

Also if its a "U" it doesn't qualify for the MoGas STC if that makes any difference to the OP.

OK, noob question...MoGas STC?

if your budget is 50K, don't buy a 50K plane. You need to have a reserve to tackle any unexpected expenses. You don't want your 55K plane grounded b/c you can't afford to replace a cylinder.

$50K OTD would still be comfortable with reserve and maintenance in mind.

Even though this plane is being sold with a 'fresh annual', dont get bamboozeled into thinking that everything has to be a-ok and you can skip the pre-buy inspection.

Have bought enough cars, boats and trucks to know that pre buy inspection that is completely thorough would be critical. I trust NO ONE when it comes to sellers!

A lot of the conversation has centered around the 182 that I listed...if not a 182, what other options...bigger or smaller...would fit the bill for my use and budget? Like I said, not currently a IFR certified pilot, but would anticipate wanting to add that within the next two years and would want a plane to train in as well as my other flying...without having to drop $30k in avionics.

 

[poadeleted21]

I actually appreciate the pessimistic view. Need to know what the worst case scenarios are and what to look out for during the process.



OK, noob question...MoGas STC?



$50K OTD would still be comfortable with reserve and maintenance in mind.



Have bought enough cars, boats and trucks to know that pre buy inspection that is completely thorough would be critical. I trust NO ONE when it comes to sellers!

A lot of the conversation has centered around the 182 that I listed...if not a 182, what other options would fit the bill for my use and budget? Like I said, not currently a IFR certified pilot, but would anticipate wanting to add that within the next two years and would want a plane to train in as well as my other flying...without having to drop $30k in avionics.

MoGas STC means you can run it on ethanol free automobile fuel.

 

[weilke]

OK, noob question...MoGas STC?

As stated by Bart, the ability to burn ethanol free automotive gasoline in your plane. If you have a source of good ethanol free autogas (e.g. from a marina), it can help to reduce your operating expenses by several dollars per hour. The older lower compression 182 engines are eligible for that STC, the rollover from that engine to the newer version that is not eligible for the STC is right around that year of manufacture.

$50K OTD would still be comfortable with reserve and maintenance in mind.

Make sure you take state and local sales tax into account.

Have bought enough cars, boats and trucks to know that pre buy inspection that is completely thorough would be critical. I trust NO ONE when it comes to sellers!

It should be printed on the FAA bill of sale: In god we trust, everyone else get's a pre-buy.

A lot of the conversation has centered around the 182 that I listed...if not a 182, what other options...bigger or smaller...would fit the bill for my use and budget? Like I said, not currently a IFR certified pilot, but would anticipate wanting to add that within the next two years and would want a plane to train in as well as my other flying...without having to drop $30k in avionics.

Preferably a plane that someone else has spent the money for the avionics upgrades on. As a general rule, installed avionics increase the value of the plane by about 1/2 of what it cost to put them in. Now the plane as posted is probably IFR legal, but to be IFR legal doesn't require much. Maybe I am a snob, but I find flying with a Garmin 430 or 530 to be a lot more satisfying than poking around in the murk with two VORs and an ADF.

As for the airframe itself. A lot of people are very happy with their 182. It is not the greatest at anything it does but it does enough things reasonably well that it serves the greatest number of owners. A Cherokee 235 will carry as much as a 182, be a little bit cheaper to buy but it lacks some of the interior room and the second door. If carrying 4 adults is not a requirement, you have a couple more options: A normally aspirated Arrow will fly about as fast as a 182 but burn a bit less fuel to do so (and has a simpler/cheaper engine than the 182, you do buy the occasional rebuilds on the hydraulic pump and actuators). Also, you will be collecting 'complex' hours which depending on where you want to go in aviation down the line may be helpful. There are allways older Mooneys. A M20C or maybe E is certainly within your budget and would go as fast or faster than the 182 on less fuel. But you REALLY have to like the person sitting next to you and in the C, the back-seat is only suitable for humanoids if they lack legs (e.g. mermaids). The E has back-seat legroom for small dwarfs, but side by side you are still going to share skin with whoever sits in the passenger seat. If you dont want to go as fast or as high as a 182, one notch below are 172s, 172XP, Archers etc. More owners of those types will upgrade after a couple of years, in a high sales-tax state like california and taking into account the cost of buying and selling aircraft, the 'cheaper' aircraft can end up being a lot more expensive in the long run.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

A lot of the conversation has centered around the 182 that I listed...if not a 182, what other options...bigger or smaller...would fit the bill for my use and budget?

A PA28-235 is very similar to a 182 in performance and load-hauling. Largely a matter of personal preference. For the older year Piper's, the rear seat legroom is lacking (a 182 is a like a limo in the back seat).

Also, to another poster, a 182 with the O-470U is, by definition, a 1977 "Q" model or newer. It may have been manufactured and first flown in 1976, but it is a 1977 model year (ours is #330 off the line, made in 1976, but first flown in January 1977).

Anyone seriously considering purchasing a 182 should get the 182 Buyer's Guide from the Cessna Pilots Association, and join that association for the advice other members will give you (via their forum) during the buying and ownership process. The best $55 you can spend.

 

[Skylane81E]

Planes for your mission if not a 182?

Well tell us more about said mission. We need passenger sizes, baggage requirements (got a wife who thinks packing light is two big bags?) airport types, including surface type and length and elevation. Are you going to be flying over or in mountainous terrain? And so on.

Odds are a Cherokee 235 would work as it is basically pipers 182, but if a 172 or Cherokee 180 would work that will save you money over the high performance birds.

 

[hindsight2020]

Maybe all this big talk would be more credible if you had done it rather than just telling everybody how you're going to do it.

Why do you always reply to my contributions with ad hominem? You did the same thing to my post on the marriage thread. What's the problem? Why can't you just agree/disagree like the rest of the contributors to the thread?

 

[Jaybird180]

That's because Wayne is old and crusty experienced enough to not bother with being nice about how he says it.

Listen up Youngsta'

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Why do you always reply to my contributions with ad hominem? You did the same thing to my post on the marriage thread. What's the problem? Why can't you just agree/disagree like the rest of the contributors to the thread?

I wouldn't pay attention to em'

The dude has almost TEN THOUSAND posts, common sense says people in the "done it"'crowd are busy doing it and don't have time to be living on a Internet message board...IMHO

 

[Shawn]

Well tell us more about said mission. We need passenger sizes, baggage requirements (got a wife who thinks packing light is two big bags?) airport types, including surface type and length and elevation. Are you going to be flying over or in mountainous terrain? And so on.

In an "Ideal" world...mission would primarily be recreational flying in Nor Cal...I do commute to So Cal and Sacramento quite a bit, so something that would not beat me up too bad for a 275nm trip when the weather conditions allow. Would usually be me plus one or two buddies and/or co workers for the so cal trips, so a back seat would be important...and some of us can be in 200-230lb range. A few passengers and an carry on size bag would be a "typical" flight for the So Cal missions. Would love the option to take it up to Tahoe in the mountains as well as something to grow with as my experience grows. If I had something that could support a 650nm trip up to Washington State for a few days to visit family and sight see around Puget Sound...even better. Initially would just be recreational flying and personal conveyance for work, capabilities beyond that would be great but not critical to start out. Don't anticipate a "career" in aviation (but never opposed to that should the opportunity pop up!)

Not really interested in the buying a 152 then "trading up" mentality.

I know I am asking for the Sun, the Moon AND the Stars on my budget, but the purpose of all the questions is to learn where my compromises need to be so I don't regret the first purchase after a few months of ownership.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Is there something good or bad about 1968's and the 182-L model?

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane, N42313. TT6389, 342 SMOH. Next annual 03/2014. KMA24 audio w/3LMB, KX155 Digital Nav/Com with GS, KX125 Nav/Com with LOC, DME, Xpdr, ADF, GPS. All logs.


Avionics

• King KMA24 Audio Panel with 3LMB
• King KX155 Digital Nav-Com with Glideslope
• King KX125 Nav-Com with Localizer
• King Digital DME
• King KT76A Transponder
• King KR87 ADF
• Garmin 295 GPS

Airframe
6389 Hours Total Time Airframe

Engines
Continental 0-470-LCR

Type of Overhaul: Major Overhaul to New Limits
Name of Overhaul Shop: Telecine Mattituck Services, Inc
Engine HP: 230 HP
Hours since Overhaul: 342 Hrs
Date of Overhaul: June 2002
SN# 80419-9-L-4​

Prop

342 Hours Since Prop Overhaul
Date of Prop Overhaul: July 2002​

Interior
Soft Leather Seats with Matching Carpet and Side Panels - Very Nice!

Exterior
Overall White with Red and Black Trim - Looks Excellent!

Equipment
PS Engineering PM501 Intercom

Avionics Master
Outside Air Temperature
Vertically Articulating Pilot Seat
Pilot Sode Hinged Window
Dual Push to Talk
Leather Yoke Covers
Rudder Trim
External Power Plug
Wheel Fairings
Stainless Steel Screw Kit
Engine Preheater


Remarks
What a great airplane for the money. This Skylane is a very clean straight aircraft that has had impeccable maintenance and comes with complete logbooks since new. The Mattituck engine has very low hours and is running great. It is IFR equipped with a recent certification. The paint and high quality leather interior make it look really nice. At this price it will not last long!

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane

Useful Load: 1065.89 Lbs
Usable Fuel: 78 gallons Serial: 18258961

Next Annual: March 2014

Ownership History:
We purchased this aircraft from a very nice couple in Eastern Pennsylvania. They have not been flying the plane much lately and therefore decided to sell it.

Damage History:
A visual inspection of the aircraft as well as a review of the logbooks indicate no evidence of any airframe damage. It was noted that the plane did have a prop strike during taxi in 2002 which lead to the engine overhaul and prop replacement. There was no airframe damage. It was also noted that both fuel cells have been recently replaced. See online logs for verification.

Maintenance History:
Logbooks are original, complete, comprehensive, well organized and legible.
In-flight report: Our Pilot flew this plane from Eastern PA to our facility in Kokomo, IN without a hitch. The engine started easily and ran smoothly.
The flight controls were rigged well and all equipment appeared to be functioning.

 

[hindsight2020]

Is there something good or bad about 1968's and the 182-L model?

For me the significance of the '68 model is that it was the year they came out with the six pack arrangement of instruments. I haven't priced a panel re-arrangement in the shotgun paneled 182s but I was told by a personal friend and A/P that the T-yokes on the older 182s need a conversion to U-yokes in order to allow proper center stack radio placement and allow the symmetric placement of instruments into the six pack arrangement. This is obviously much more expensive than a mere panel faceplate manufacturing.

The biggest change is the 1962 E model, that's where the cabin width became comparable to the 42" at the elbows like the Piper series. Before then the cabin was quite a bit narrower.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Thanks, the IFR panels may or may not be important to some, good to consider.

A 1976 with 1440 hours on the engine for about the same budget as the OP, $54,900

Year:1976
Manufacturer: Cessna
Model:182P Skylane
Price:$55,000.00 / REDUCED
Location: Salem OR, USA
Condition:Used
Serial Number:N/A
Registration Number:N292CB
Airframe Total Time:4850
Engine Times: 1440 SMOH
Prop Times: 895 SPOH
Flight Rules: IFR

Item Description
1976 182P, IFR, 4850-TT, 1440-SMOH, 895-SPOH, GPS, DME, LRT, strobes, avionics master w/back up. great compressions Sept annual completed, all logs, NDH, always hangared, looks great, runs great, priced to sell.
PhotosVideosDocuments (Logbooks, etc.)

Avionics

IFR
DME
GPS
LRT​

Interior

LEATHER INTERIOR​

Remarks

GOOD SOLID AIRCRAFT​

NDH
ALL LOGS
HANGARED

EXTRAS.....

What does a Prop overhaul cost on a 182? What is a replacement cost?

 

[weilke]

In an "Ideal" world...mission would primarily be recreational flying in Nor Cal...I do commute to So Cal and Sacramento quite a bit, so something that would not beat me up too bad for a 275nm trip when the weather conditions allow. Would usually be me plus one or two buddies and/or co workers for the so cal trips, so a back seat would be important...and some of us can be in 200-230lb range.

Before you get too far into the idea of flying on business and taking co-workers along, look into your companies policy on this and what insurance requirements they may have. Of course, if you are self employed, you write the policy .

 

[Shawn]

Yup...I'm the boss. All my guys. I already know the ins and outs of business reimbursement and write offs per FAA regulations for PP vs Commercial. That would be the only reason that I would want to work towards a commercial...for a full write off if I moved employees vs just my share, but that is down the road a ways...then I would be looking at a mulit engine and whole 'nother ballgame, but don't wanna get ahead of myself, just trying to get in the air with a plane first!

 

[weilke]

Yup...I'm the boss. All my guys. I already know the ins and outs of business reimbursement and write offs per FAA regulations for PP vs Commercial. That would be the only reason that I would want to work towards a commercial...for a full write off if I moved employees vs just my share, but that is down the road a ways...then I would be looking at a mulit engine and whole 'nother ballgame, but don't wanna get ahead of myself, just trying to get in the air with a plane first!

Never looked into whether the Mangiamele interpretation applies to business owners flying their employees. The way it is worded, I think it says employee.

 

[jpflys]

What does a Prop overhaul cost on a 182? What is a replacement cost?[/QUOTE]

I had experience on ownership on a 1960 C model Skylane with an original prop.
If I recall correctly it could not be rebuilt due to " grease type hub".
New one was about 7 AMU s.
Greatest plane I ever flew, though!
Good luck.

 

[Skylane81E]

What does a Prop overhaul cost on a 182? What is a replacement cost?

I had experience on ownership on a 1960 C model Skylane with an original prop.
If I recall correctly it could not be rebuilt due to " grease type hub".
New one was about 7 AMU s.
Greatest plane I ever flew, though!
Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Yikes. We picked up a new 3 blade for around 5k.

 

[NoHeat]

Anyone seriously considering purchasing a 182 should get the 182 Buyer's Guide from the Cessna Pilots Association, and join that association for the advice other members will give you (via their forum) during the buying and ownership process. The best $55 you can spend.

I can recommend that. I did it when I was considering 182, and it helped.

A 182 will meet the OP's mission well, but I would want at least a 1-axis autopilot.

The 182P is the most recent model that qualifies for the automobile gas STC, which is handy in some states, like Iowa, where you can still buy the ethanol-free at a gas station.

 

[Skylane81E]

In an "Ideal" world...mission would primarily be recreational flying in Nor Cal...I do commute to So Cal and Sacramento quite a bit, so something that would not beat me up too bad for a 275nm trip when the weather conditions allow. Would usually be me plus one or two buddies and/or co workers for the so cal trips, so a back seat would be important...and some of us can be in 200-230lb range. A few passengers and an carry on size bag would be a "typical" flight for the So Cal missions. Would love the option to take it up to Tahoe in the mountains as well as something to grow with as my experience grows. If I had something that could support a 650nm trip up to Washington State for a few days to visit family and sight see around Puget Sound...even better. Initially would just be recreational flying and personal conveyance for work, capabilities beyond that would be great but not critical to start out. Don't anticipate a "career" in aviation (but never opposed to that should the opportunity pop up!)

Not really interested in the buying a 152 then "trading up" mentality.

I know I am asking for the Sun, the Moon AND the Stars on my budget, but the purpose of all the questions is to learn where my compromises need to be so I don't regret the first purchase after a few months of ownership.

Well three people over 200 each, plus fuel and baggage you are looking at a 182 or bigger as that weight adds up quick, almost 700lbs of people then add fuel and bags and you are right at the edge of what a 172 or Cherokee 180 will manage (as in three 230 pounders, 250 miles of gas, an hour reserve and 50 lbs of bags and you are at gross, if you got one with a good useful load) a 182 will do the same trip with several hundred pounds left to spare