Requesting Flight Following

MBDiagMan

MBDiagMan

Final Approach
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Doc
Well, to all you city pilots, which I think most of you are, this will be an elementary question, but I'm a boondocker. I did some searching and couldn't find any similar threads.

A few months ago I had complete radio fright when faced with a "I really need to go" trip to a Class D airport underneath the DFW class B. Many of you came to my rescue, especially TangoWhiskey (Troy) who even wrote a script for me to study.

After that script, the other posts of information and encouragement, I made the flight and it was a big step forward in getting comfortable pushing on that button on the yoke and talking to the tower folks. Up 'til that time I just thought the headset was for hearing protection.:D

I am getting pretty close to having enough XC time to start my instrument training and my instructor wants me to do some flight following to get used to pushing that button, talking and listening.

I plan on putting my toe in the water tomorrow morning when I fly from Bonham to Grand Prairie. I plan on getting over Mesquite and call for Flight Following the rest of the way to Grand Prairie.

Should I use the Flight Service frequency, Ft Worth Center frequency, or maybe DFW East Approach frequency?

Any help, suggestions, encouragement or scripts will be appreciated.

You guys can go ahead and start laughing at the boondock rookie:yesnod:, but try to remember I'm just trying to improve my skills and ability to go to the big city. Before I went into Grand Prairie Class D I was very apprehensive about talking on the radio and had just been avoiding the big city like the plague. Thanks to your help it was a great experience and a great step forward. I hope I can make this next step as successfully.

Thanks for your help!
 
Call whoever controls the airspace. It'll never be FSS. If it's class D then call the tower. If it's class C or B call approach, if it's outside all that then call ARTCC (Center). Only the entity that controls the airspace you're in can give you flight following.
 
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Man...radio becomes easy with about two runs through the Comm1 CD...If you do go that route...spring for the headset...

That will not help you between now and tomorrow but it will help in the long run.

The thing that helped me the most with the Comm1 CD was that there were examples...you then could record your voice and hear how you sounded versus a seasoned pilot. It was very revealing to me... and made dramatic improvements in my radio work.

Captain said:
Call whoever controls the airspace. It'll never be FSS. If it's class D then call the tower. If it's class C or B call approach, if it's outside all that then call ARTCC (Center). Only the entity that controls the airspace you're in can give you flight following.
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Really, this covers it...for your flight tomorrow...
 
Captain said:
Call whoever controls the airspace. It'll never be FSS. If it's class D then call the tower. If it's class C or B call approach, if it's outside all that then call ARTCC (Center). Only the entity that controls the airspace you're in can give you flight following.
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That's the kind of rule of thumb that will stick in my pea brain. Thanks!:D
 
I added all this to my previous post and then saw that people had already responded before I saved it again...so I just moved it here to a new post. sorry for any confusion.




If you have access to an airport diagram it'll be listed as Appch / Departure. Call them once clear of the pattern. If you fly for awhile and then decide you want FF then look at the sectional and see if there is class C or B nearby. If so they will have approach freqs listed so call them.

When you call tell them who you are, where you are (location and alt) and what you want (flight following to xyz). If you happen to be on the wrong frequency don't sweat it. They'll give you the proper freq.
 
Thanks Cap'n! There is Class B nearby! I'll initially be skirting the DFW beehive.
 
No problem. Here's one more tip. If you're out flying in the middle of nowhere and there isn't any class C or B near by and you have no idea what the center freq is for your area just look at your sectional and pick a towered airport near by. Call them and ask for the Center freq in your area.

You, "Rural tower, this is cessna 123. I'm 8 to the north at 8,500 and was just wondering what the center freq was for my area."

Tower, "cessna 123, try Denver Center on 134.30"

You, "Thanks rural tower, appreciate it."



easy peezy.
 
If you're departing, don't wait until clear of the pattern to ask. Tell Ground (or Clearance Delivery, if they have one) before taxi what you want, and they'll either give you a squawk and freq right then (and tower will hand you off once airborne), or they'll tell you what freq to call once clear of the pattern for your direction of flight.

Arriving, if there's Class B/C airspace or a TRSA, there should be a freq on the sectional chart for arrivals in the area. However, it's usually a good idea to get flight following right from your initial departure -- that saves a lot of trouble linking up with a busy TRACON close in. You can find the freq to call on departure from your home airport in the A/FD -- look in the Communication block for the circle-R showing what facility provides radar service in that area, and what freq they use.
 
Doc,

Another thing you can do for picking up FF while enroute is get yourself some IFR enroute charts (might as well since you are planning on doing the IR). The IFR enroute charts will typically show the appropriate Center frequencies in between the Class C/B areas. Even if you get the wrong freq for the specific area you are in, controllers will usually give you the correct one.

Also, start listening to LiveATC.net It will help you get familiar with what you'll be hearing when you start doing the IR.
 
Leaving Bonham looks like 127.6 is what you want. http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1203/06722R17.PDF is what I used to find that or the AF/D. On the way back, query the GND controller. Have fun. You might listen to liveatc.net on occasion to help feel more comfortable with the lingo.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
Doc,

Another thing you can do for picking up FF while enroute is get yourself some IFR enroute charts (might as well since you are planning on doing the IR). The IFR enroute charts will typically show the appropriate Center frequencies in between the Class C/B areas. Even if you get the wrong freq for the specific area you are in, controllers will usually give you the correct one.

Also, start listening to LiveATC.net It will help you get familiar with what you'll be hearing when you start doing the IR.
Click to expand...

Of course, if you have an AF/D (or some electronic approximation) you can just look in the communications block for an Approach or Center frequency at a nearby airport with an approach. This usually is a better first guess than the nearest center frequency in a lot of the more populated parts of the country.
 
Looking at the A/FD, the Center freq for Jones Field (F00) is 127.6

Tune that in on your standby position, then as soon as you're at a decent altitude for them to pick you up, make it the active, then...

"Fort Worth Center, Miss Piggy 1234 with request."

When the controller says go ahead, "Center, Piggy 1234. I'm xx miles of the Bonham VOR (since it's a well known landmark and close to ya), yyyy altitude climbing to zzz. Request Flight following. Destination Grand Prairie Municipal via waypoint1 and waypoint2"

Remember it's "Who you are, where you are, what information you have, and what service do you want."
 
PS. What time are you headed back home? Care to stop at KDTO and say howdy?
 
flyingron said:
Of course, if you have an AF/D (or some electronic approximation) you can just look in the communications block for an Approach or Center frequency at a nearby airport with an approach. This usually is a better first guess than the nearest center frequency in a lot of the more populated parts of the country.
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Yes, it depends on where you fly. Out here in the SW, you spend alot more time flying through Center airspace than Approach....that was kind of where I was coming from. Yes, if you are flying near an airport with an approach, the AFD (or better yet a TAC if one is available) is a good choice.
 
Wow, I'm really glad I started this thread. I'm getting great responses and even an invitation for dinner.:D

You guys might talk me into doing Flight Following the whole way, but my idea was to go most of the way outside Bravo and then call for Flight Following to duck in the rest of the way, so I don't have to fly over buisy airports like Addison and Love Field on my first experience.

That said, a good middle ground might be to follow the Aggies advice and put in there Hutchins as a waypoint. It is a flagged waypoint on the chart.

Mike, I'll see how the day goes and how the flight following goes. If I get confident with it, I might call for flight following to Denton when I leave GP in the afternoon. I have a lot to do in GP, so it probably won't happen this trip, but I REALLY appreciate the invitation. I have your IPhone and Office phone numbers from when we were trying to meet up at Cedar Mills. I assume they are still good.
 
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Doc,
Much simpler (and what I have used for years):
Bonham is uncontrolled, so.......
Get the center/Apch/dep freq from the AFD/AOPA Kneeboard, or any reliable source. (127.6 which I think is Regional Appch)
At about 1500MSL,
"Regional Approach, Miss Piggy 1234, off of Jones Field, VFR to Grand Prairie"
Give them any other information as requested and you are in.
If you are going into a field within the Bravo areas, they would prefer to have you in the system as early as possible for routing and sequencing purposes. I.E. if you wait until Mesquite, They will keep you out of the Bravo and run you south of RBD. Getting in early will probably yield a Bravo entry and across ADS and Love field. Much shorter.
Good luck. We don't go XC without FF and that call up works every time.
 
The Old Man said:
"Regional Approach, Miss Piggy 1234, off of Jones Field, VFR to Grand Prairie"
Give them any other information as requested and you are in..
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This would really tick the New York controllers off. I ask for flight following everytime and always start off with a call up with my call sign and they respond. Then tell them type of plane, current location with altitude, destination and landing intentions( full stop). They also love if you have the latest ATIS for the destination and tell them that too because they will have to ask you later if you dont tell them.

If they have to ask you for info then you are clogging up the frequency for other calls and frustrating those other pilots who need to make a call. I've never had any trouble with this technique.
 
Very seldom is the time I ask for flight following that I'm anywhere near the phase of flight where I'd be thinking of getting ATIS. Picking up flight following is a beginning of flight thing. When calling give them 'who you are, where you are and what you want'.

Telling some Center controller or an approach guy 150 miles from your destination that you want full stops or ATIS delta is unnecessary. Cap'n Ron was right to suggest asking for flight following with ground at the departure airport. Sooner the better. I was assuming uncontrolled.
 
Captain said:
Very seldom is the time I ask for flight following that I'm anywhere near the phase of flight where I'd be thinking of getting ATIS. Picking up flight following is a beginning of flight thing. When calling give them 'who you are, where you are and what you want'.

Telling some Center controller or an approach guy 150 miles from your destination that you want full stops or ATIS delta is unnecessary. Cap'n Ron was right to suggest asking for flight following with ground at the departure airport. Sooner the better. I was assuming uncontrolled.
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You are totally correct about the ATIS. I ment that if you've heard the ATIS it's a good thing to tell them because they will always ask. Of course if you're out of range you can't tell them you have it. I don't think it hurts to tell them your intentions on landing, especially if you are flying to a busy airport. This way the tower knows you don't plan on doing touch and goes. It might be overboard but I think the more info that ATC knows about what I'm doing the safer I'll be.
 
jspilot said:
This would really tick the New York controllers off. I ask for flight following everytime and always start off with a call up with my call sign and they respond. Then tell them type of plane, current location with altitude, destination and landing intentions( full stop). They also love if you have the latest ATIS for the destination and tell them that too because they will have to ask you later if you dont tell them.

If they have to ask you for info then you are clogging up the frequency for other calls and frustrating those other pilots who need to make a call. I've never had any trouble with this technique.
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Right....... Not!
Off of Aero Country (My last flight out of Dallas), There ain't a chance that I could receive the ATIS for Greenville, MS nor that it would still be current 2.6 hours later on my arrival.

Your second paragraph is non-sensical. In the first paragraph, you say that they respond and then you give them the information which indicates at least 2 exchanges. My post indicates the same two exchanges; initial call up and their request for the info.

In practice, your way usually requires 3 exchanges.
My first call (used all over the country, including New York) is usally followed by; 594LB, squawk xxxx. Current altimiter is xx.xx, say type, desired cruising altitude and heading. I reply and we're done.
Your way, you call, they ask for your request, you give the information, they return a squawk code. But they have to get the code, then enter the data in the system against that code, so you often wind up repeating some of the data you gave them on your second xmission.

You are apparently talking about getting entry to the area where you intend to land, not getting FF for an XC from takeoff to destination.
 
jspilot said:
You are totally correct about the ATIS. I ment that if you've heard the ATIS it's a good thing to tell them because they will always ask. Of course if you're out of range you can't tell them you have it. I don't think it hurts to tell them your intentions on landing, especially if you are flying to a busy airport. This way the tower knows you don't plan on doing touch and goes. It might be overboard but I think the more info that ATC knows about what I'm doing the safer I'll be.
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There are many examples and variables. As a general rule I start off with who I am, where I am, and what I want. Always keep in mind who you are talking to and don't give info that isn't relavant to that person.

If I'm talking to Kansas City Center then it does no good to tell them I have ATIS in KAPA (Denver Area) and I want a practice ILS followed by a full stop. If you are going to a Class C or B airport then Approach is the first time I mention I have ATIS even though I had it two Center freqs ago. Going to a Class D (no nearby approach) ?Then I tell the final Center controller. How do I know? Well, I'm descending through 10,000 feet is a good clue, him asking if I have ATIS is another.

My point is there is no hard and set rule. I would be very hesitant to simply advise you tell the first guy you talk to everything under the sun including what you ate for breakfast. A better general rule, IMHO, would be to just give the information that is pertinent to that phase of flight. Initial calls typically boil down to who you are, where you are (location and altitude), and what you want.

"Center, Cessna 123 over ABC VOR, 8,500, request flight following to XYZ". That gets the ball rolling and nothing more is needed unless its NEEDED.

"Center, Cessna 123 over ABC VOR, 8,500, request flight following to XYZ, declaring an emergency". That'll get their attention.
 
The Old Man said:
Right....... Not!
Off of Aero Country (My last flight out of Dallas), There ain't a chance that I could receive the ATIS for Greenville, MS nor that it would still be current 2.6 hours later on my arrival.

Your second paragraph is non-sensical. In the first paragraph, you say that they respond and then you give them the information which indicates at least 2 exchanges. My post indicates the same two exchanges; initial call up and their request for the info.

In practice, your way usually requires 3 exchanges.
My first call (used all over the country, including New York) is usally followed by; 594LB, squawk xxxx. Current altimiter is xx.xx, say type, desired cruising altitude and heading. I reply and we're done.
Your way, you call, they ask for your request, you give the information, they return a squawk code. But they have to get the code, then enter the data in the system against that code, so you often wind up repeating some of the data you gave them on your second xmission.

You are apparently talking about getting entry to the area where you intend to land, not getting FF for an XC from takeoff to destination.
Click to expand...

I'm just doing it the way I was taught. My Instructor said that it is always better to give an initial call up so that the ATC is ready for you to share the required info with them. To just unload a lot of info on the guy on the other end does not seem right either. My experience tells me that ATC gets more aggrevated when you just unload all the info in the first call up. If you make them ask you for the info it just seems less curtious then waiting for a reply and telling them what they need to know. That was my only point.

As I've said clearly you can't let ATC know you have the ATIS when you are far away. The original poster led me to believe he was going to be asking after he was airbourne and approaching his destination so you are correct that I was assuming he would also need to include information that would allow him to enter the airspace. I'm sure everyone has ways of getting flight following that work and that no one way is totally better than the others.
 
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Well, thanks to all my coaches here on the forum I managed to pull it off and then some.

I got off just as the Sun was peaking up and the moon was beautiful even though it was slightly hazy. I got to Grand Prairie long before 8AM.

Someone at my airport insisted that I needed to call DFW Approach instead of Center. That was probably the worst part of the whole experience. I climbed out over the nearby VOR and called DFW East Approach. They indignantly told me to call Approach Freq 128.3. I haven't found that in any directories yet, so I'm going to look it up on a chart in a few minutes.

Once I called 128.3 I asked for Flight Following to Grand Praire via Hutchins. Hutchins is a marked milestone on the chart, that would put me East of Bravo. For whatever reason they ignored the Hutchins part and after giving me the squawk and sending me to 3,500 feet they told me to fly over Love Field then to Grand Prairie making for almost a straight line trip.

I got a traffic report not long before Love and he was under my nose so I couldn't see him. I saw once he passed. After Love they descended me to 2,000 feet and asked if I had weather. I told them I did not, but since it was a short trip, maybe I should have written it down before I left Bonham.

They asked if I was ready for weather and they gave it to me. I did not do a read back, but told them I had it. They didn't complain about no read back so I'm not sure if it was necessary or not.

I changed to Grand Prairie tower and they seemed to be waiting for me and told me to report final for 35. I'm so accustomed to landing 17 I was almost into 17 downwind before I caught it. They like right traffic for 35 so I took advantage of my small airplane and just turned tight and pivoted around for a left downwind. I was a little high, but pulled full flaps and slipped it down. Landed just beyond the numbers.

This worked out way better than I ever dreamed. I went almost direct rather than going the long way around Bravo and the FAA hasn't called me yet. No antiaircraft fire either.

Now I'm going to go back and study the post about getting the squawk and clearance from ground before taking off to go home.

Thanks a bunch to everyone. This turned out to be another radio confidence building day again, thanks to POA folks.
 
You don't read back the weather. Here's one more rule of thumb;

only clearances need to be read back.

Cleared to land...read it back. Cleared to climb to 5000...read it back. Cleared to turn right to 330 degrees...read it back. Given the weather or the score of the super bowl...don't read it back.
 
Thanks Cap'n! I did acknowledge my altitude and heading changes, so I guess that's why the FAA hasn't knocked on the door yet.:D
 
MBDiagMan said:
They indignantly told me to call Approach Freq 128.3./QUOTE]

Are you sure that wasn't 124.3 which is Dallas Approach for our (NE Dallas) sector?

You just learned what I said in my original post. That if you get in the system as wearly as possible, they will give you the best routing. Early notice allows them to work you into their flow.

As for setting it up on the ground at a controlled airport, simple. Just ask Clearance Delivery or Ground for it. They will either set it up for you or give you the departure freq to use for your direction of flight. In this case3, normally the tower will release you after takeoff with, "Contact departure on xxx.xxx."
Click to expand...
 
MBDiagMan said:
Well, thanks to all my coaches here on the forum I managed to pull it off and then some.

I got off just as the Sun was peaking up and the moon was beautiful even though it was slightly hazy. I got to Grand Prairie long before 8AM.

Someone at my airport insisted that I needed to call DFW Approach instead of Center. That was probably the worst part of the whole experience. I climbed out over the nearby VOR and called DFW East Approach. They indignantly told me to call Approach Freq 128.3. I haven't found that in any directories yet, so I'm going to look it up on a chart in a few minutes.

Once I called 128.3 I asked for Flight Following to Grand Praire via Hutchins. Hutchins is a marked milestone on the chart, that would put me East of Bravo. For whatever reason they ignored the Hutchins part and after giving me the squawk and sending me to 3,500 feet they told me to fly over Love Field then to Grand Prairie making for almost a straight line trip.

I got a traffic report not long before Love and he was under my nose so I couldn't see him. I saw once he passed. After Love they descended me to 2,000 feet and asked if I had weather. I told them I did not, but since it was a short trip, maybe I should have written it down before I left Bonham.

They asked if I was ready for weather and they gave it to me. I did not do a read back, but told them I had it. They didn't complain about no read back so I'm not sure if it was necessary or not.

I changed to Grand Prairie tower and they seemed to be waiting for me and told me to report final for 35. I'm so accustomed to landing 17 I was almost into 17 downwind before I caught it. They like right traffic for 35 so I took advantage of my small airplane and just turned tight and pivoted around for a left downwind. I was a little high, but pulled full flaps and slipped it down. Landed just beyond the numbers.

This worked out way better than I ever dreamed. I went almost direct rather than going the long way around Bravo and the FAA hasn't called me yet. No antiaircraft fire either.

Now I'm going to go back and study the post about getting the squawk and clearance from ground before taking off to go home.

Thanks a bunch to everyone. This turned out to be another radio confidence building day again, thanks to POA folks.
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Things are generally easier when you're in the "system". Fun wasn't it? I make a point of getting the weather as soon as I can because I know the question is coming when I get close. Yes, the tower knew you were coming, the approach controller called them and let them know just before you got handed off. Glad you enjoyed it.
 
Doc, I get flight following EVERY flight, though with the mountains around here I often lose them and then get them back again.

That being said, I'm still afraid of the radios and saying the wrong thing, so you aren't the only one.

For example, I don't know how comfortable I would be landing or taking off from Palo Alto or San Carlos (both class D airports under / near one Bravo - SFO - and two Charlies - SJC and OAK)..... still.

Any towered airport still makes me need / want a script. I need to get out more.

Another thing you can do, by the way, is listen to LiveATC.net while you are doing other things around the house. The more you listen the more you will get used to all the VFR GA pilots getting flight following, etc. Just make sure to listen to the correct ATC frequency.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Once I called 128.3 I asked for Flight Following to Grand Praire via Hutchins. Hutchins is a marked milestone on the chart, that would put me East of Bravo. For whatever reason they ignored the Hutchins part and after giving me the squawk and sending me to 3,500 feet they told me to fly over Love Field then to Grand Prairie making for almost a straight line trip.
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So they ran you right through the class B?

I might have to find out if that button on the stick actually works one of these days.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
So they ran you right through the class B?

I might have to find out if that button on the stick actually works one of these days.
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Yep, not exactly the middle of the Bravo, but not far from the middle. It was a great step forward in getting some radio experience to prepare for instrument training.

It didn't hurt anything to save a couple gallons of avgas either.
 
The Old Man said:
MBDiagMan said:
They indignantly told me to call Approach Freq 128.3./QUOTE]

Are you sure that wasn't 124.3 which is Dallas Approach for our (NE Dallas) sector?

You just learned what I said in my original post. That if you get in the system as wearly as possible, they will give you the best routing. Early notice allows them to work you into their flow.

As for setting it up on the ground at a controlled airport, simple. Just ask Clearance Delivery or Ground for it. They will either set it up for you or give you the departure freq to use for your direction of flight. In this case3, normally the tower will release you after takeoff with, "Contact departure on xxx.xxx."
Click to expand...


You are right! When I got back to the plane one radio was on 124.3. I haven't looked over the chart again with the right frequency. Is that maybe KDAL Regional Approach, or DFW Regional Approach? My Foreflight doesn't show 124.3 as a frequency attached to DFW.
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Captain said:
No problem. Here's one more tip. If you're out flying in the middle of nowhere and there isn't any class C or B near by and you have no idea what the center freq is for your area just look at your sectional and pick a towered airport near by. Call them and ask for the Center freq in your area.

You, "Rural tower, this is cessna 123. I'm 8 to the north at 8,500 and was just wondering what the center freq was for my area."

Tower, "cessna 123, try Denver Center on 134.30"

You, "Thanks rural tower, appreciate it."
.
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Actually, there's an easier way. Look at the AFD entry for a nearby airport and note the freq that is is listed as the app/dep freq (if one is listed). In most rural places, that freq will be an ARTCC. Example: The entry for KGNT (Grants, NM, located at the intersection of nowhere and nothing) lists ZAB 124.325 as the approach/departure freq. Another way for those with IFR charts would be to look at any approach plate for a nearby airport or the Low Enroute.
 
MBDiagMan said:
The Old Man said:
You are right! When I got back to the plane one radio was on 124.3. I haven't looked over the chart again with the right frequency. Is that maybe KDAL Regional Approach, or DFW Regional Approach? My Foreflight doesn't show 124.3 as a frequency attached to DFW.
Click to expand...

Look on the Bravo freq chatr on the sectional. It is listed for the NE quadrant.
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Not all approach sector frequencies are listed on the charts. It's pretty common to get handed off to another sector right after you first call up - no harm, no foul. If you fly the route a few times you'll get to know which freq is the best one to call.
E.g. crossing the south end of the San Pablo bay from DVO to OAK, the TAC says to contact NorCal App on 127.0. Most of the time, if you try that you'll either get told to call NorCal on 120.9 or you'll just get dead air! So if you aren't getting anywhere on one charted freq, try another nearby one and they'll give you the right numbers to dial in.
 
Planning a XC to area where I didn't do much training and looking to use Flight Following (which I also didn't do much of during my training), think I know the process but for those who's gone through this busy airspace, was hoping I could gut-check with you experts:

-Heading from KCDW (Caldwell, NJ) to K31E (Eagle's Nest airport near Atlantic City) on Sunday

  1. Call KCDW ground as normal, indicate departure to the south, transitioning MMU (Class D) and request flight following (I've never requested FF on the ground, what will that say that's different?)
  2. After takeoff, request freq change to MMU
  3. Clear transition with MMU, again, transitioning to the South direct to 31E
  4. Once I'm clear of MMU airspace, contact NY approach on 128.55, tell them who, where, how high, direct to 31E and request flight following. Assume they'll give me a squawk code
  5. QUESTION: as long as I'm out of the Bravo, FF is not control right? So, I don't need to request altitude changes?
  6. QUESTION: It'd be great to fly through A-220; this doesn't require clearance from anyone, correct? Just awareness
  7. I imagine that New York will at some point hand me off -- will it be to Philly (on 123.8) or Atlantic City on 134.25?
  8. I need to ensure that R-5002 isn't hot as I'll be flying awfully close to it -- do I ask this of this controller?
  9. When I'm close to 31E, should I request a frequency change to let them know I'm going to the CTAF??
Think that's it. Not a very long flight distance wise but like to have everything pre-planned in my head as best I can.


Thanks!
 
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