Report from the AOPA Town Meeting

[mikea]

Phil Boyer gave Chicago news updates in the AOPA Pilots Town Hall meeting last night in St. Charles, IL.

Some news:

AOPA has to offer the FAA budget some cost savings from GA. The FAA budget is hurting due to lower airline ticket prices. The FAA gets a 10% tax on tickets. The average airline ticket was $400 pre 9/11. Now it's the average is in the $75 range. That has made a huge reduction in the cash flow to the FAA.

GA gives $60 million through the fuel tax. Flight service stations alone cost the FAA $500 million a year to run.

AOPA is in favor of the contract to outsource FSS to Lockheed/Martin. Boyer met with them and was impressed with what they have in mind: Every briefer will have a workstation with three flat touchscreens with the weather map, communications console, and text information. Any briefer can handle any call. The contract has performance guarantees in it. Phone calls must be answered in 20 seconds. Radio calls in 15 seconds. They'll have a capability to store your profile of your skills, ratings, aircraft, and preferences, and your favorite routings for flight plans. "Would you like to file the flight plan with your preferred route to "East Podunk?" They will have an online system to view the briefer's screen in real time during the call so you can see a pointer to the weather the briefer is talking about. Although calls can be routed nationwide they will certify briefers for familiarity with each state's geography with a bonus for each cert they earn.

AOPA has the administrator on tape from Expo where she said the FAA has no plans to move to fee based system. No user fees is the #1 issue for AOPA.

In a trade for the creation of WAAS approaches - Boyer had one of the first WAAS approach certified Garmin GNS480s with an MX20 installed in his 172 and demoed an approach to opposite ILS-less end of the runway at Frederick - AOPA is willing to let the FAA stop publishing NDB approaches. The FAA will not decommission NDBs yet.

The guy from SC who won the Twin Comanche is the first who had the wherewithal to keep it. He got insurance and training from the Comanche club and is still flying it. He's retired and will using it rather than his J3 to tour the country. The video of the awarding of the prize was heart rending.

 

[Brian Austin]

Nice rundown, Mike! Thanks for posting it.

 

[Greebo]

The L/M setup sounds impressive - but how would they be paying for these services if it's not based on user fees?

AOPA has to offer the FAA budget some cost savings from GA.

and

she said the FAA has no plans to move to fee based system. No user fees is the #1 issue for AOPA.

just don't seem to go well together...

If not from user fees, HOW will GA help the FAA budget?

 

[Greebo]

And thanks for the rundown, Mike!

 

[bstratt]

The L/M setup sounds impressive - but how would they be paying for these services if it's not based on user fees?

If not from user fees, HOW will GA help the FAA budget?

The funds collected from GA will remain the same, but by "agreeing" to the outsourcing proposal it saves the FAA 20% of estimated going forward costs PLUS the upgrade on all the computers, etc. GA gets the "credit".

Hey Mike, I looked for you but didn't see you. I was in an aisle seat (middle aisle) about 2/3 the way towards the back. Where were you?

 

[Greebo]

Outsourcing will save 20%?

Big number!

How? I'm someone who works in an industry that deals with outsourcing all the time. I've heard all the stories about how much cheaper it is.

How exactly is Lockheed Martin going to save the FAA 20% while paying for all that snazzy new equipment?

Don't get me wrong - I WANT to believe ... and I WANT FSS to have those tools available to them too! I just don't trust the apparant spin...

 

[bstratt]

If my memory is correct (not a sure thing at my age) it was 20% but I'm sure Mike will correct me if I'm wrong (he's much younger with more brain cells!). It does seem too good to be true. Consolidation of locations and people, more efficient phone systems and computer systems (i.e. technology), and non-government wage and benefits.

We get service guarantees in terms of response and wait times on the phone or radio call up.

There was a write up in one of my magazines recently (I forget if it was AOPA Pilot or Flying).

The WAAS was certainly the most impressive demonstration of the night!

 

[Brian Austin]

Outsourcing will save 20%?

Big number!

How? I'm someone who works in an industry that deals with outsourcing all the time. I've heard all the stories about how much cheaper it is.

How exactly is Lockheed Martin going to save the FAA 20% while paying for all that snazzy new equipment?

Don't get me wrong - I WANT to believe ... and I WANT FSS to have those tools available to them too! I just don't trust the apparant spin...

I don't think LM is going to see a profit for the first year or two. This should be considered a long term commitment, really. But after investing in the infrastructure and getting away from maintaining obsolete equipment (which costs more in the long run), I can see how 20% could be realized.

As someone else mentioned, consolidation of FSS centers, automation of services, especially online, etc., would be a big benefit over the long haul.

I also wonder if, once the infrastructure is in place, we might not see a "Platinum" level of service for a subscription fee. Faster response times, automated flight planning, etc., all for an additional subscription cost for the pilot.

 

[wsuffa]

I don't think LM is going to see a profit for the first year or two. This should be considered a long term commitment, really. But after investing in the infrastructure and getting away from maintaining obsolete equipment (which costs more in the long run), I can see how 20% could be realized.

As someone else mentioned, consolidation of FSS centers, automation of services, especially online, etc., would be a big benefit over the long haul.

I also wonder if, once the infrastructure is in place, we might not see a "Platinum" level of service for a subscription fee. Faster response times, automated flight planning, etc., all for an additional subscription cost for the pilot.

Consolidation will be the big thing. If this is a cost-plus contract, LM will actually wring more than 20% out of the costs as the 20% savings to the FAA is after LM's profit.

 

[Brian Austin]

Consolidation will be the big thing. If this is a cost-plus contract, LM will actually wring more than 20% out of the costs as the 20% savings to the FAA is after LM's profit.

Very true. Profit is a great motivator.

 

[mikea]

The L/M setup sounds impressive - but how would they be paying for these services if it's not based on user fees?

If not from user fees, HOW will GA help the FAA budget?

The funds collected from GA will remain the same, but by "agreeing" to the outsourcing proposal it saves the FAA 20% of estimated going forward costs PLUS the upgrade on all the computers, etc. GA gets the "credit".

You got it. Airlines and Corporate flight departments don't use FSSs. I was going to ask what they use but then I remembered that contractors like DUATS are certified as legit briefing source, so I suppose other commercial suppliers and airline departments can get the same.

What I like is how they say the FSS are ancient with obsolete equipment.

1) Don't fund them sufficiently.
2) Make purchasing equipment require a hundred miles of Federal red tape, even if they had funding.

[When I attended a meeting with the St. Louis FSS, they were thrilled that they'd be getting the OASIS terminals - meaning they would have already old Windows PCs with the same graphics we've been getting at home for many years. The briefers, of course, had to be trained and certified on the OASIS systems. I wonder if they held out for pay raises.]

3) Then say you might as well close the FSSs because they're so expensive and have obsolete equipment.

They also say that 60% of the briefers will be eligible for retirement in the next few years.

The FAA says it costs $25 to handle a single phone call. That's why they've been happily paying DUAT & DUATS all these years.

Hey Mike, I looked for you but didn't see you. I was in an aisle seat (middle aisle) about 2/3 the way towards the back. Where were you?

I sat in the second row directly in front of the podium. Traffic was amazingly decent, even though I left at shortly after 5:00PM, so I got there pretty early. I drove over 40 miles. Like I said before we gots lots of miles round here.

After the meeting I talked to an non-owner airport neighbor who wants his non-flying to buddy to look into becoming my partner in the plane. I don't think I like it...but....

The Friends of Meigs weren't there. That was probably good since Phil pronounced the chance of Meigs reopening as a dead deal, even if they did get Jesse Jackson, Jr. onboard.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/050323ptm.html

I was inspired again to really start up my campaign for a CTAF for the Chicago Lakefront route. I talked a bit to Bill Dunn about that. I'm going to start a base for the petition on my web site. Stay tuned.

 

[ggroves]

Outsourcing will save 20%?

Big number!

How exactly is Lockheed Martin going to save the FAA 20% while paying for all that snazzy new equipment?

Simple - fewer, cheaper butts occupying seats. I haven't read the details of the contract, but I'm guessing that the theory is better equipment, better training, better management = shorter calls = fewer FSS briefers.

You have to remember that the FSS guys and gals are also long in tenure and very, very well paid, and deservedly so. I have a friend who is retired ATC. It takes less time than you think to pop into 6 figures as a controller, etc.

If you have the ear of any aspiring pilots who are frustrated with the industry, crappy pay, etc...encourage them to check out ATC training programs. There is an impending shortage due to upcoming retirements and the starting salary is very attractive.

Greg
182RG

 

[bstratt]

I was inspired again to really start up my campaign for a CTAF for the Chicago Lakefront route. I talked a bit to Bill Dunn about that. I'm going to start a base for the petition on my web site. Stay tuned.

Hey Mike, if you need any additional support for that you have my vote. Maybe we can get AOPA to propose something, or the ASF.

 

[DeeG]

"They'll have a capability to store your profile of your skills, ratings, aircraft, and preferences, and your favorite routings for flight plans."


Interesting. Good and bad about this. How will they keep track? N number for owners or will you have a 'log in' name or such? "Ahhhh, user 14562bx, I see that you have not yet logged the three required full stop night time landings, and that your CFI has a restriction for no flights with wind speeds over 10 knots. Current wind conditions at your airport are 11 knots. I am sorry, but unless there is a CFI or a properly rated and current pilot logged in the system to fly with you at this time, I will have to report this pending violation to the FAA. Please remain at the airport for contact."

The good thing is it may keep some of them wingnuts with 15 hours of IFR training under their belts and SOUND like they know what their doing from going out and TRYING to fly IFR.

Dee

 

[Brian Austin]

Interesting. Good and bad about this. How will they keep track?

I wouldn't get too worried unless we're REQUIRED to file flight plans later. Having FSS keep track of our logbooks is way too much Big Brother and I just don't see that happening.

I like the idea of aircraft, preferences, etc.. If I fly one particular aircraft all the time, instead of listing everything during a flight plan, they can simply say "flying N1234 today, Mr. Austin?" Yup. All capabilities, color, fuel, avionics, etc., already plugged in.

Lots of advantages here. I hope it works out.

 

[mdreger]

campaign for a CTAF for the Chicago Lakefront route.

Have you tried MDW RADAR on 119.45, or MDW Tower on 118.7? ATIS 132.75