Repair costs after annual.

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
The annual is complete and signed off as unairworthy, and the list of discrepancies is given to the owner, but the costs to repair are more than the owner can afford, now what.
The aircraft is not at its normal home base.
 
it sits until he can afford it or he gets a ferry permit or it sits until he can afford to get it good enough to ferry or he puts it on a trailer.
 
He could sell to someone with a bigger wallet, but there probably isn't a big market for non-operational planes.
 
Tom-D said:
The annual is complete and signed off as unairworthy, and the list of discrepancies is given to the owner, but the costs to repair are more than the owner can afford, now what.
The aircraft is not at its normal home base.
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I think it would depend on the problems. Things that prevent safe operation should be fixed before flight. Certain problems may make the airplane unairworthy but may not make it unsafe to fly home under day VFR conditions for which a ferry permit may be an option. There should be a plan to repair the airplane at the destination airport.
 
John221us said:
He could sell to someone with a bigger wallet, but there probably isn't a big market for non-operational planes.
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There is always a market. The market gets larger the lower the price is, although sometimes that means a negative price. (ie, I will give you x dollars to take this plane).
 
John221us said:
He could sell to someone with a bigger wallet, but there probably isn't a big market for non-operational planes.
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I don't think there is a big market for any kind of airplanes. I doubt if that is going to change anytime soon, other than getting worse, no matter which one of the talking heads gets the Whorehouse....er....White House.

Damn spell check.

-John
 
He could take off the wings and truck it home, but you would have to turn in your pilot handbook and secret decoder ring for that one.
 
Nah just give the IA a signed bill of sale for his troubles, and call the Ole Lady to come pick you up.:rofl:


Paul
N1431A
N83803
2AZ1
 
If the "discrepancies" are a matter of interpretation or opinion (sometimes also known as a plissing contest) could possibly resolve some of the issues immediately and get the airplane flying again. It wouldn't be the first time.
 
And here I thought this thread was about repairs that have to be made after things were broken during annual.
 
Insufficient bandwidth available for that one, laddie.
wsuffa said:
And here I thought this thread was about repairs that have to be made after things were broken during annual.
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Gary F said:
I think it would depend on the problems. Things that prevent safe operation should be fixed before flight. Certain problems may make the airplane unairworthy but may not make it unsafe to fly home under day VFR conditions for which a ferry permit may be an option. There should be a plan to repair the airplane at the destination airport.
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It's a wooden spar aircraft that does not comply with the AD, (cracks) and the fabric will not pass the required punch test for dope/cotton.
 
Gee, sounds like something I would be interested in!
Dave
 
d.grimm said:
Gee, sounds like something I would be interested in!
Dave
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I don't know what is going to happen with this aircraft, But I'll bet it will set in some body's garage for the next 20 years or until some one pries it out of grandpa's cold dead fingers.

I'm not involved with this aircraft other than listening to the owner cry.
 
White or wheat?


Tom-D said:
It's a wooden spar aircraft that does not comply with the AD, (cracks) and the fabric will not pass the required punch test for dope/cotton.
Click to expand...
 
Tom-D said:
It's a wooden spar aircraft that does not comply with the AD, (cracks) and the fabric will not pass the required punch test for dope/cotton.
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Sell as salvage and buy another cheap plane with the proceeds.
 
Tom-D said:
It's a wooden spar aircraft that does not comply with the AD, (cracks) and the fabric will not pass the required punch test for dope/cotton.
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Airport Bonfire, $100 hot dogs and s'mores.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Airport Bonfire, $100 hot dogs and s'mores.
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I suggested he take it to a fly in, charge $10 to have people cut the fabric off.

but your right, one match and that old dope would go up like the Hindenburg.
 
A) the annual INSPECTION is complete- are any of the repairs items that affect airworthiness? If not - and the prior inspection signoff is still valid - fly it home

b) Ask the IA what discreps need to be fixed in order to return the aircraft and engine to service - there are prob not many else the airplane would not have flown in successfully.

There are prob several items that are nice to fix category or which can be deferred. This is why a contract needs to specify what happens -

What aircraft? And there are cracks in a wooden spar airplane? Hmmm. Thats pretty rare - those Bellancas and Citabrias wings are almost bulletproof - its dry rot that gets them - not cracks . ..
 
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comanchepilot said:
A) the annual INSPECTION is complete- are any of the repairs items that affect airworthiness? If not - and the prior inspection signoff is still valid - fly it home

Nope you can't do that legally. it was signed off as unairworthy, and a list of discrepancies given to the owner.

b) Ask the IA what discreps need to be fixed in order to return the aircraft and engine to service - there are prob not many else the airplane would not have flown in successfully.

The non compliance with the AD will stop any A&P-IA from signing as Airworthy.

There are prob several items that are nice to fix category or which can be deferred. This is why a contract needs to specify what happens -

The Cotton fabric punch test is a required item on the 43-D check list.

What aircraft? And there are cracks in a wooden spar airplane? Hmmm. Thats pretty rare - those Bellancas and Citabrias wings are almost bulletproof - its dry rot that gets them - not cracks . ..
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AD 2000-25-02

This is as good as I can find this morning
http://www.aeroncapilots.com/98CE121AD.htm
 
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There are very effective ways using GitRot followed with other epoxies to deal with cracks in wooden spars. Airplane spars see nothing compared to sailboat spars which constantly see tons of compressive load. I've repaired a lot of spars and I don't think all is necessarily lost there, but the recover is the recover. Can he do it under supervision with Stewart System or is he too old or even cost of material too high?
 
Henning said:
There are very effective ways using GitRot followed with other epoxies to deal with cracks in wooden spars. Airplane spars see nothing compared to sailboat spars which constantly see tons of compressive load. I've repaired a lot of spars and I don't think all is necessarily lost there, but the recover is the recover. Can he do it under supervision with Stewart System or is he too old or even cost of material too high?
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When you get approval to do that let us know.

It's known as an alternate method of compliance.

get it approved and see how many owners will buy the engineering
 
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bbchien said:
Is it so bad you can't give the guy a ferry permit?
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Knowing the spars are cracked beyond the limits of the AD, would you?

Besides the wings are off and it is already in his barn at home.

He came to me a little late, I did not do the annual.
 
The next question is the aircraft worthy of a restoration?

It has a high time engine, and basically no radios, interior is shabby.

and when you uncover it, what will you find?
 
Tom-D said:
Knowing the spars are cracked beyond the limits of the AD, would you?

Besides the wings are off and it is already in his barn at home.

He came to me a little late, I did not do the annual.
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Tranlation: "It's so bad I can't do that".
Ummn. Well, if he doesn't pay you for the inspection, you have to put a lien on the dataplate......or you'll never see it. He needs to hire the flatbed and take it out of there, pay you for the hours.... sigh.

Yes, this person needs to plan better or be willing to leave aviation, it's a symptom of our current repeat of 1933. "4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!" Sorry, but I have nothing good to say about our current CIC.
 
Tom-D said:
The next question is the aircraft worthy of a restoration?

It has a high time engine, and basically no radios, interior is shabby.

and when you uncover it, what will you find?
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:confused: Missing primary information, what is it? Is it cool? If the answer is supposed to be a financial decision the answer is salvage for whatever someone will offer in the next 30 days before storage comes due.
 
bbchien said:
Tranlation: "It's so bad I can't do that".
Ummn. Well, if he doesn't pay you for the inspection, you have to put a lien on the dataplate......or you'll never see it. He needs to hire the flatbed and take it out of there, pay you for the hours.... sigh.

Yes, this person needs to plan better or be willing to leave aviation, it's a symptom of our current repeat of 1933. "4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!" Sorry, but I have nothing good to say about our current CIC.
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all I'm doing is giving advice, he owes me nothing. he's basically at home letting it all sink in.
 
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