I went on a chart subscription years ago...they run out in like 10 mins.
Rental etiquette
- Thread starter ChrisRikli
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I went on a chart subscription years ago...they run out in like 10 mins.
silver-eagle
En-Route
I've been the guy who missed a scheduled appointment and paid for that privilege. On this particular occasion, I made the mistake of answering a phonecall from the office.
So if they're late, shouldn't they be paying ME?
So if they're late, shouldn't they be paying ME?
LearDriver
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Gdriver
I have seen it where the airplane is open after your scheduled flight time and someone books the airplane while the plane is out flying. Then the girls behind the counter tell the customer that the airplane is available starting at a set time. They should be letting them know that the airplane should be available. Whenever these last minute bookings occur, you can be sure that there will be a conflict.
For those of you that seem to want to blame the instructor, have you ever considered that the lesson may have started late because the previous student showed up late or unprepared. I have found over time that a majority of the students pull into the parking lot at 2PM if their lesson is scheduled to begin at 2PM.
I have also found that complaining renters usually just get lip service from the owners or the flight school management. If they refund some money or give you a discount they just write it off as a cost of doing business. If you are a renter that uses an airplane a couple of hours a month and you were inconvenienced by an instructor that may be putting 50-80 hours a month on the schools aircraft, who do you think the aircraft owner is going to give the benefit of the doubt to. Something will get said to the instructor. However it is usually just a polite conversation. It may not be right, but it is reality.
I was always able to keep from bringing back airplanes late. I do this by charging my time by the clock from when the lesson is scheduled to begin until it is scheduled to end. If the student is late, they are paying. If they get there late, I cut the flight portion short so that the airplane is back and ready for the next renter on time. If the student complains, I just remind them that they were late and we need to have the airplane back on time. I always try to have the airplane back tied down 15 minutes before our scheduled time expires. Its just common courtesy.
For those of you that seem to want to blame the instructor, have you ever considered that the lesson may have started late because the previous student showed up late or unprepared. I have found over time that a majority of the students pull into the parking lot at 2PM if their lesson is scheduled to begin at 2PM.
I have also found that complaining renters usually just get lip service from the owners or the flight school management. If they refund some money or give you a discount they just write it off as a cost of doing business. If you are a renter that uses an airplane a couple of hours a month and you were inconvenienced by an instructor that may be putting 50-80 hours a month on the schools aircraft, who do you think the aircraft owner is going to give the benefit of the doubt to. Something will get said to the instructor. However it is usually just a polite conversation. It may not be right, but it is reality.
I was always able to keep from bringing back airplanes late. I do this by charging my time by the clock from when the lesson is scheduled to begin until it is scheduled to end. If the student is late, they are paying. If they get there late, I cut the flight portion short so that the airplane is back and ready for the next renter on time. If the student complains, I just remind them that they were late and we need to have the airplane back on time. I always try to have the airplane back tied down 15 minutes before our scheduled time expires. Its just common courtesy.
TMetzinger
Final Approach
My early instructors left me with the view that renting an airplane was a privilege - somebody with more money than me bought an airplane and was making it available for rental, and not making much money in the process, perhaps even losing money. Because of that, they said, it was important to treat the airplanes well. We always left them clean, properly secured, and ready for the next customer. Sometimes if I was taking someone for a ride I'd block out the airplane for an extra couple of hours and wash it.
Now, the flip side of that is that I expected the airplane to be well maintained. I expected everything in the panel to work, I expected the GPS to be up to date, and I expected that if I squawked something it would be fixed rapidly. And for as long as I rented from that place - that's what I got. It cost a little more than other places, but it was worth it.
On the other hand I've been in cheap airplanes that had more INOP stickers in the panel than working stuff, and were always "ridden hard and put away wet". Those places didn't get any more of my business than I absolutely had to give them.
I think it comes down to the attitude instilled in students by their instructors. There's nothing in the AFH or Instructor Handbook about this, but I'm gonna do up a lesson plan on Etiquette while I'm thinking about it. I want my students to treasure aviation, and part of that is good courtesy and taking care of it.
Now, the flip side of that is that I expected the airplane to be well maintained. I expected everything in the panel to work, I expected the GPS to be up to date, and I expected that if I squawked something it would be fixed rapidly. And for as long as I rented from that place - that's what I got. It cost a little more than other places, but it was worth it.
On the other hand I've been in cheap airplanes that had more INOP stickers in the panel than working stuff, and were always "ridden hard and put away wet". Those places didn't get any more of my business than I absolutely had to give them.
I think it comes down to the attitude instilled in students by their instructors. There's nothing in the AFH or Instructor Handbook about this, but I'm gonna do up a lesson plan on Etiquette while I'm thinking about it. I want my students to treasure aviation, and part of that is good courtesy and taking care of it.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Aside from the fact that it's the right thing to do, one good reason for taking good care of a rental airplane is that I may want to fly it again, and I prefer to fly airplanes that have been taken good care of.
flyersfan31
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Freiburgfan31
So what? The slot was until 11am. You snooze, you lose. The onus is on the instructor to cut the time from the student, not the blameless renter who follows the timeslot.
flyersfan31
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And cheers to you for not freaking out like a chimp on acid at anyone and everyone at the FBO. I've seen that, too.
It's nice to see adult behavior rewarded.
Aztec Driver
Line Up and Wait
I would agree, except that the original post said the student and instructor sat there and debriefed after they said something. Once you know there is someone waiting, get your butt moving and get out.
Jim Logajan
En-Route
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Speaking of rental etiquette, I have a question regarding renting a plane to actually travel cross country for a day or more. (Haven't done that yet myself, so maybe the rules are different.)
If the renter is expected to have the plane back at the end of the block of time they booked, is it still a breach of etiquette (or even the rental agreement) to not have the plane back if the weather turns sour making the return date and time dangerous or impossible? Or are rentals scheduled and treated differently if they are overnight or longer?
If the renter is expected to have the plane back at the end of the block of time they booked, is it still a breach of etiquette (or even the rental agreement) to not have the plane back if the weather turns sour making the return date and time dangerous or impossible? Or are rentals scheduled and treated differently if they are overnight or longer?
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
I've been in that situation on several occasions and I've never had a FBO get upset with me for not being able to get their airplane back due to weather.
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Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Jim-
Given that weather and mechanical problems could intervene on an XC, I would call the rental operator ASAP so they can communicate with those booked for the plane so the other renters can alter their plans
Given that weather and mechanical problems could intervene on an XC, I would call the rental operator ASAP so they can communicate with those booked for the plane so the other renters can alter their plans
TMetzinger
Final Approach
They expect you to use good judgment, and they'd MUCH rather hear from you saying you're weathered in and will be late than hear from the gov't saying "you own N123XY? It flew into a hill here this morning".
It's good etiquette to call as soon as you know you'll be late. And you better be late because of something you couldn't control, not because of something you couldn't. I've come home "early" when I saw bad weather coming in, and I sort of expect the same from fellow renters. If you know you won't be able to make your return flight, come up with a plan B and execute it.
That's another reason some places require the instrument rating for X/Cs over a certain distance. If you're stranded VFR a short distance (say 200 NM) away, they can dispatch a couple of IFR instructors to go "rescue" you. I've done that kind of flight a couple of times - got some free flight time and somebody else got home on time.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
My FBO, and probably most, will NOT give you any grief for weather related scheduling issues (being late, canceling at the last minute, or getting stuck somewhere.)
Overnight rentals at the FBOs I've been to handle it with minimums. They'll usually charge a 3 to 6 hour minimum for an overnight rental. The differences in times depend on who you are, what you negotiate, and how many hours you expect to put on the plane while you have it.
JeffDG
Touchdown! Greaser!
As others have opined, most FBOs don't want you chancing weather. Most FBOs I've dealt with will even waive their "2 hours per day minimum" rental charge if you're weathered in...better to have an intact plane back a day late than an ELT going off somewhere.
LearDriver
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Gdriver
I thought that to be quite rude of the student and instructor. The student may not know any better. However the instructor knows better.
I had to wait an hour and a half one day for a renter to return from his private checkride with the examiner. When they returned they debriefed right there at the airplane. The examiner stood at the door and smoked cigarette after cigarette for 45 minutes. So even some DPE's are a-holes as well. He knew they were really overdue. He just walked passed us and made a smart ass comment as well.
ChrisRikli
Pre-Flight
Maybe I'm too fresh out of flight school and still give all the idealistic Sunday School answers but if I'm the pilot on the schedule the day after you're supposed to have the plane back I should have have a no-fly contingency plan, yeah? I'd rather have to execute that than have someone feel pressured to fly in questionable conditions, especially since *I* wouldn't want to feel pressured if I found myself in a similar situation.
Jack Spectre
Line Up and Wait
I rented for a year and a half after I got my certificate...and have concluded that renting after you get your cert is not advisable. If you fly more than 2 hours a month, a flying club is a better deal financially, and the planes are almost certainly in better shape.
I'm in a club with 2 - 172s, a 182, and an SR-20. There are 65 members in the club, all paying monthly dues, and yet on the web scheduler I only see 10-20 regular renters. This means I can fly the plane whenever I want, even at the last minute.
It's nearly all the benefits of owning and nearly none of the downsides.
I'm in a club with 2 - 172s, a 182, and an SR-20. There are 65 members in the club, all paying monthly dues, and yet on the web scheduler I only see 10-20 regular renters. This means I can fly the plane whenever I want, even at the last minute.
It's nearly all the benefits of owning and nearly none of the downsides.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
or at least all the downsides are spread out between enough people that it isn't too painful financially.
I also am very happy to have a really great flying club.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Good point. The large club I belong to seems to do a better job of keeping up with squawks than some of the other places I have rented from here. However it's more expensive, not less.
(The other places call themselves clubs, but they are not governed by the members, i.e., there's no voting, so I consider them to be FBOs.)
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bender52
Pre-Flight
I'd like to dogpile in with the "it's rude" crowd. I've been on the receiving end also. Had another pilot who booked a plane earlier in the day and called me asking if I could slip my time so he could have more time. Due to other commitments, I could not accommodate. He just took the time and didn't bring the plane back until 45 min after my start time. Since I couldn't slip my time, I lost the slot all together.
Did discuss with the management and uncertain of the outcome, but I do know it hasn't happened again.
Brian
www.av8orcharts.com
Did discuss with the management and uncertain of the outcome, but I do know it hasn't happened again.
Brian
www.av8orcharts.com
elmetal
Pre-takeoff checklist
south florida. Broward or Dade county specifically but I'm not against making the drive to Palm Beach or Monroe