Remote ATC Tower

Discussion in 'Change to my Frequency...' started by denverpilot, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    They didn't *have* to. They were already Broomfield-Jeffco. They just didn't want to sound like a place a maid service goes shopping for tools. :)
     
  2. ejensen

    ejensen Pattern Altitude

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    We've had twice a week to Rockford, IL. Woodword opened an office and headquarters is here. Allegiant was full pretty much every trip but the owner decided he wanted to serve Hawaii so pulled the plane. When Allegiant was flying there was a lunch counter in the terminal (after screening). FNL has tried many ways over the years. Just too close to DEN for most to pay.
     
  3. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    I've often thought that a lot of smaller airports don't really need a full control tower, but do need something other than 122.8 babble to keep paint from being scrapped. Used to be the on field FSS could do this, but outside of Alaska that's gone.

    I can see a remote tower being a real safety improvement at a lot of airports that don't need the full in person tower.
     
  4. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

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    Well, do we address them as "tower" then? Since they are not truly a tower building.
    Maybe I'll open with "Podunk camera pole ...". ;)
     
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  5. Doggtyred

    Doggtyred En-Route

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    If they aren't a federal employee, with the feds issuing the W2.. then... its a pedantic nit..

    Kind of like calling the current FSS guys "government employees".
     
  6. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How long have you known Roncachamp? :rofl:
     
  7. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I understand that you are so desperate to support your position that you are willing to say anything. First it was towers issued clearances. Now it is towers have to be a different color and they have to have a building which shows up on google earth. Yes I really do understand that in your mind you have to be "right" and someone else has to be wrong. Got. None of that stuff means it isn't a private tower. Sorry. HTH and HAND.
     
  8. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    Actually, all of those things indicate there is no control tower at PADG. There is nothing that indicates there is or has ever been one there.
     
  9. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    Who calls the current FSS guys "government employees"?
     
  10. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    He doesn't.
     
  11. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, I didn't want to jump to conclusions! ;)
     
  12. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Nope. BJC is still in Jefferson County and is owned by Jefferson County. While they list Broomfield as the closest city, it is outside the consolidated Broomfield City/County limits. The name was purely a marketing change.

    Now APA, Centennial formerly Arapahoe County is another story. While it is owned by Arapahoe County's airport board, it extends south into Douglas County.
     
  13. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Anyone playing the semantics game of where the money to pay them ultimately comes from.
     
  14. abqtj

    abqtj Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Holy Semantics, Batman!!!
     
  15. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Nothing other that when people fly there they contact the tower for clearance? Sorta hard to ignore that fact.

    In other words, you can keep dancing and attempting to obfuscate but it just won't work.
     
  16. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    There's no tower there for them to contact.
     
  17. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    LOL. Other folks say otherwise. Folks who have flown there. Have you been there? In other words, you can keep dancing and attempting to obfuscate but it just won't work.
     
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  18. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've run out of popcorn.
     
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  19. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    Thank you. But it's like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. It will feel good when you stop.
     
  20. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No worries. Steve can't stand being exposed so he keeps digging a deeper hole. All of us know it and just watch him dig.
     
  21. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Indecent exposure? ;)
     
  22. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    I believe just one folk has said otherwise, but his description of the operation there was not that of a control tower.

    No. Have you?

    I'm the only one who has presented any documentation on the issue. Do you feel that's an attempt to obfuscate?
     
  23. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    Deer Valley, DVT, used to be an NFCT. The city ran it for a few years, then the FAA took it. This was long before the Contract Tower program began. Ain't arguing anything here, just a bit of trivia.
     
  24. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Really Steve? you've presented your opinion many times. Repeating an opinion is not "documentation". Yes you do attempt obfuscation any time you are exposed.
     
  25. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    Really.

    I've stated facts and posted documentation. Reexamine message #78.

    What did I post that you feel to be obfuscation? Please be specific.
     
  26. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    The County is "public"

     
  27. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    That is a nice runway. 737's really landed there on gravel? Did they have some kind of screen on the engines? Anyway, its a private airport. You can't land there without the owners permission. While I suppose a case could be made that he and his employees really shouldn't be calling themselves "Tower," seeing as how you can't be there without his permission I doubt if the "case" is going to be pursued. If I owned it I just might call myself "Tower" to. Or maybe 'Your Eminence.' "Your Eminance, ASA123 5 mile final." I might even get all froggy and say "Cleared to land." But even if there is a 'tower' there, like a tall skinny building with big glass windows on top, it ain't the "Tower."
     
  28. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    Yes, I have seen 737s, 727, DC-9s and DC-6/C-54s land on the gravel. The 737 had some sort of gravel guard on the nose wheel, looked more like a ski. Plus there was a stream of air that blew from the bottom front of the engine to help keep foreign material out of the engine. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can explain those extras on the 737.

    I also used to go into some LRRS for the military. Same thing. Call on the landline before takeoff to give them a ETA and someone will be on frequency when I get close. They would tell me which direction to land and don't park close to the vehicle on the ramp... Yessir, staying away from the people with automatic weapons, no problem. And make sure the paper work is updated.
     
  29. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    Yeah. There could be some entity there masquerading as a Tower. And they could give you a clearance but they have to preface it with "ATC Clears." FSS's do this. There are UNICOMS that do it to. The ATC facility that gives the clearance to the FSS or UNICOM to be relayed to the pilot must also preface it with "ATC Clears."
     
  30. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don't "feel" anything to be obfuscation. I know you attempt obfuscation when your errors are exposed. When the obfuscation fails you go into denial. The pattern is clear and repeated many times.
     
  31. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    What did I post that you feel to be errors? Please be specific.
     
  32. Doggtyred

    Doggtyred En-Route

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    The taxpayer. Aka.. Me.
     
  33. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No "feel" about your error. Sorry. You miss the fact of your error. No worries that you fail to perceive reality. Really.
     
  34. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

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    So help me to perceive reality. Identify my error and explain why I'm wrong.
     
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  35. Harold Rutila

    Harold Rutila Pre-takeoff checklist

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    What ATC facility would be relaying a clearance to an unrecognized control tower? And where are there clearance delivery relays available through UNICOM?
     
  36. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

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    Just made another batch, put caramel on it. Want some?
     
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  37. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route

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    Whichever ATC facility had control jurisdiction over the airspace there. I don't know of any particular UNICOM's that do it. In the age of cell phones and a lot more RCO's there probably aren't very many. Here's the documentation on the subject.

    From the AIM
    4−1−12. Use of UNICOM for ATC Purposes
    UNICOM service may be used for ATC purposes,
    only under the following circumstances:
    a. Revision to proposed departure time.
    b. Takeoff, arrival, or flight plan cancellation
    time.
    c. ATC clearance, provided arrangements are
    made between the ATC facility and the UNICOM
    licensee to handle such messages.
    4−4−2. Clearance Prefix
    A clearance, control information, or a response to a
    request for information originated by an ATC facility
    and relayed to the pilot through an air−to−ground
    communication station will be prefixed by “ATC
    clears,” “ATC advises,” or “ATC requests.”

    From the Controllers order
    4−2−2. CLEARANCE PREFIX
    a.
    Prefix a clearance, information, or a request for
    information which will be relayed to an aircraft
    through a non−ATC facility by stating “A−T−C
    clears,” “A−T−C advises,” or “A−T−C requests.”
    b. Flight service stations must prefix a clearance
    with the appropriate phrase: “ATC clears,” “ATC
    advises,” etc.

    From the Facility Operation and Administration order
    3−2−5. AERONAUTICAL ADVISORY
    STATIONS (UNICOM/MULTICOM)

    Pursuant to FCC Rules and Regulations, Part 87,
    Subpart C, UNICOM stations are not authorized for
    ATC purposes other than the relay of certain ATC
    information between the pilot and the controller.
    Relay of ATC information is limited to:
    a. Takeoff, arrival, or flight plan cancellation
    times.
    b. ATC clearances, provided there is a LOA
    between the licensee of the advisory station and the
    FAA facility.
     
  38. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Thanks for the offer, but I am not a caramel fan!
     
  39. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    caramel sticks to my teeth and I only have a tooth brush
     
  40. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I owe you nothing big boy. Learn to help yourself.