Relationship between hp and maximum takeoff weight?

LandSickness

Cleared for Takeoff
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fri tale
Is there a formula, calculator or chart somewhere that lists an aircraft's maximum takeoff weight based on the powerplant's horsepower? What's the difference, say for instance, between the maximum takeoff weight of an Cessna 172 with a 150hp powerplant and the same plane with a 180hp powerplant with all(or most) things being the same? I'm interested in knowing how much load a certain hp powerplant can carry. I'm sure there are countless conditions that can affect this calculation. Is there a way to determine at least a ballpark figure?
 
No, there isn't. There are many factors involved in MTOW besides engine horsepower. So, unless you know whether the MTOW is limited by stall speed (max 61 knots for singles), structural strength (usually due to either gust, maneuvering, or landing loads), or performance (usually the balked landing minimum climb gradient), you can't tell if or how much the MTOW will increase if you increase engine power.

That said, there is a lot you can infer if you really look into the data. For example, we know that a 160 HP Cessna 172 obtains a 100 lb gross weight increase from 2300 to 2400 just by limiting flap travel to 30 degrees from the original 40 degrees. That suggests that the original MGW was driven by performance, specifically, the balked landing climb gradient (which is usually determined with flaps full down). Replacing the engine with a 180HP gets you another 150 lb if the flaps are so limited, which tells us that the 2400 lb limit was also performance-driven because there is no structural change with that engine change. Now, is that new 2550 lb MGW is limited by performance or by structure? If we look at the data on the 195HP Skyhawk XP (model R172K), we see the same 2550 MGW as the 180HP STC'd 172 (or the factory-stock 180 HP 172Q, of which there are few to be found) despite 15 more HP, which suggests the 2550 limit is driven by structural strength, because stall speed is still well below 61 knots.

Bottom line is there is no simple calculation -- you have to do a lot of research and analysis to even be able to guess what the potential increase in MTOW is possible given an increase in engine power.
 
If you're trying to distinguish between a 180 hp Grumman Tiger and a 160 Cheetah, how do you determine true useful load? Do you take the manufacturer's word for it, do you trust the seller or is there some general way to calculate it for a specific plane? I apologize. I'm having a difficult time asking my question.
 
In unitracked land-based vehicles (ie motorcycles) typically you will see a rough equivalent of 7# per HP. Add wings and that goes haywire.
 
If you're trying to distinguish between a 180 hp Grumman Tiger and a 160 Cheetah, how do you determine true useful load? Do you take the manufacturer's word for it, do you trust the seller or is there some general way to calculate it for a specific plane? I apologize. I'm having a difficult time asking my question.
The W&B report will consider engineering and legal requirements. Take their word for it.

My airplane lists 150% structural load limit in the POH for certain operations and manuevers, so I must infer what caused the 2550 limit.
 
Too many factors involved to make a rule or even a particularly useful gouge for example you can trade speed for load in the wing planform. Figure this as a really rough gouge, it takes 50hp per seat in most small planes to fly at modern speeds.
 
I start with the limitations section of the POH, then use the weight and balance information for the airplanes in question. Subtracting airplane weight from allowable gross weight (including the fine-print stuff) has always worked.



If you're trying to distinguish between a 180 hp Grumman Tiger and a 160 Cheetah, how do you determine true useful load? Do you take the manufacturer's word for it, do you trust the seller or is there some general way to calculate it for a specific plane? I apologize. I'm having a difficult time asking my question.
 
If you're trying to distinguish between a 180 hp Grumman Tiger and a 160 Cheetah, how do you determine true useful load?
You subtract the licensed empty weight in the W&B data from the certified maximum gross weight, which is 2200 lb for the Cheetah and 2400 lb for the Tiger. As a Grumman guy who's been flying them for over 40 years, I know that Cheetahs typically weigh about 50 lb less than Tigers due to the lighter engine and lighter spar, so you usually see only a 150 lb difference in useful load despite the 200 lb difference in MGW, but that's experiential, and there are a few early Tigers out there with lower empty weights than few later Cheetahs due to changes between 1975 and 1979 and variations in installed equipment -- but not many are like that.

Do you take the manufacturer's word for it, do you trust the seller or is there some general way to calculate it for a specific plane?
You take the word of the manufacturer and/or certified mechanics who did the last weighing or W&B changes that the licensed empty weight in the current W&B data is sufficiently accurate. If you don't think it's accurate, you get the plane re-weighed. The MGW is established as part of the FAA-regulated certification process, and as I said earlier, involves many factors including structural strength, performance, and stall speed.
 
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If you're trying to distinguish between a 180 hp Grumman Tiger and a 160 Cheetah, how do you determine true useful load? Do you take the manufacturer's word for it, do you trust the seller or is there some general way to calculate it for a specific plane? I apologize. I'm having a difficult time asking my question.

Simple, you use the number on the weight and balance data sheet, that is the governing document, and if you don't trust it, have it reweighed.
 
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