Reiff Preheater

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Apache123

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Hey, Steve!
I'm just wondering if this sounds like an accurate estimate -- I bought two reiff "standard systems" for the Apache and the local shop at Waukegan said it would be about 6 hours of work for the install. This seems a little high to me, and they aren't my usual mechanic (who is about 55nm away from KUGN).

The cowls come off pretty easy, and I can't imagine it taking more than an hour per engine, two at best. But, I'm not a mechanic.

Does this seem like an accurate time estimate?
 
Sounds high to me but then I have never installed one. All the work is under the cowl though so not really complex.
 
probably not far off by the time you monkey around with the cylinder bands and them put everything back.

think of it this way, they start first thing in the morning with a good wash (can't have any oil residue under the oil pad) and then start wrenching. He's are basically done by lunch, and does the paperwork afterward and grabs another guy to inspect the work. That's 6 hours. Seems reasonable to me.
 
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Sounds reasonable to me - 3 hours per engine.

I just hope I end up with only 6 hours for the install on the Mooney - They packed things pretty tight under its cowl! I stopped by the shop last night to look at how far they'd gotten (not sure what time they started yesterday) and they had 3 of the cylinder bands on, the fourth halfway done, two to go, with the wiring harness not yet attached to the engine (just sitting on top) and not yet started on the oil heater pad.
 
Apache123 said:
I'm just wondering if this sounds like an accurate estimate -- I bought two reiff "standard systems" for the Apache and the local shop at Waukegan said it would be about 6 hours of work for the install. This seems a little high to me, and they aren't my usual mechanic (who is about 55nm away from KUGN).

The cowls come off pretty easy, and I can't imagine it taking more than an hour per engine, two at best. But, I'm not a mechanic.

Does this seem like an accurate time estimate?
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3 hrs per engine sounds about right to me. Even if your cowls come off easy, I'll bet it takes the better part of an hour to remove and replace both of them. After the cowls are off, you have to clean the sumps and maybe remove the paint under the two heaters and thermostat for each engine then glue those on, install the cylinder bands, and connect the wires. Finish by tying up all the wires put the cowling back on.
 
Totally depends on the airplane, it was a pain on a Pitts & Bonanza apparently, but the 150 was no problem. The longest time is spent taking the paint off the sump and cleaning it up. Excellent heaters though!
 
gismo said:
3 hrs per engine sounds about right to me. Even if your cowls come off easy, I'll bet it takes the better part of an hour to remove and replace both of them. After the cowls are off, you have to clean the sumps and maybe remove the paint under the two heaters and thermostat for each engine then glue those on, install the cylinder bands, and connect the wires. Finish by tying up all the wires put the cowling back on.
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Agreed.... I would want a nice looking , sanitary looking install to, so 6 hours might not be enough for a twin. If you thought about it earlier you could have done it yourself while the annual was under way and with the A&P supervising you...:yes:.. Probably save ya 500 bucks..
 
N801BH said:
Agreed.... I would want a nice looking , sanitary looking install to, so 6 hours might not be enough for a twin. If you thought about it earlier you could have done it yourself while the annual was under way and with the A&P supervising you...:yes:.. Probably save ya 500 bucks..
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I'd probably have to pay extra to have them undo it and then fix everything I screwed up :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Their time sounds good to me. Dealing with the inter-cyl baffles is the rough part.

I have Reiff on the Malibu and Tanis on the 172 and both work well. I would recommend that you install the Tanis flush mount plug receptacle and pilot light. It's nice to know that you have power to the system. I've also found the loose heaterplug broken from being beat in the wind to many times.
 
kmead said:
I would recommend that you install the Tanis flush mount plug receptacle and pilot light. It's nice to know that you have power to the system.
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Or, you can buy a simple lit plug for $1.68 in the aviation aisle at your local Wal-Mart. :)
 
I don't like mounting the flush mount plug on the cowling just because it looks ugly and it's one more thing to leave disconnected like the landing light. I always mount it on the baffle just inside the inlet with the pilot light right beside it. Plug it in then put the cowl plugs in place.

The lighted extension cord is a good idea. I don't normally carry a cord, so i'm relying on the FBO cord that they give me to use. The pilot light is cheap, reliable, and it gives me some confidence that the engine will be warm when I get there in the morning
 
Resurecting an old thread.
I'm almost done with installing a Standard kit plus oil cooler kit on my Tampico. Three hours per engine is probably a safe number. This is one of those things that gets faster and easier the more of them you do.

Notes:
-They don't include enough zip ties.
-You should probably have some JB Weld available in your hanger just in case you need more epoxy. It is the approved adhesive listed in the instructions, costs about $6, and is good to have on hand anyway.
-The layout of everything varies from one plane to the next. I have to drill a hole in my baffleing to run the power wires to the sump heater and the oil cooler heater. 7/8 inch drill bit, grommet, and red permatex required to make this happen.

This will give me 325 watts on the engine (O-320-D2A). I have a BatteryMinder charger/tender that stays on the battery. I should be good to go here in Kansas this winter.

Jim
 
Used them on my twin,install was quoted at 8 hrs. Mechanic did them both and all paperwork in 7 hrs.mounted plug inside oil filler door. Attached to dip stick cylinder.
 
Thanks for replying! I started thinking about how I had seen that on a 172 also. I was getting frustrated about having to drill holes to run wires when I figured out how I can install mine like yours. It is going to suck undoing everything I have done, but the result will be MUCH cleaner!

-Jim
 
And don't get the turbo version if you ever plan on leaving it pluged in longer than a few hours as the 100w turbo bands burn out, but the 50w cylinder bands are great.
 
+1 on the LB Weld. During annual I noticed that the sump heater pad had come loose. No idea how long it had been that way but I hadn't flown that much in the last year, which is another very long story.

Anyway it had bet itself around enough that one of the wires had broken so I had to order a replacement. I used the JB Weld (specific part number suggested by Reiff) and it seemed to work much better. I used a friction strap to hold the heater pad in place and used tome cardboard to provide pinpoint pressure on the pad. The next day i applied more JB Weld to overlap the edges of the pad. We will see ow well it holds to the sump this time.
 
I park outside in Alaska and have used Reiff on my last three engines. The standard system is too anemic for me but the Turbo XP is great. My current system is 6-7 years old and has been flawless. It's a simple do-it-yourself install. If you're so inclined have your mechanic review your work and make a logbook entry. I zip tied the plug just inside the oil door. Easy to get to by loosening the cowl cover a little. I power my Reiff using a 1000w generator and try to give it 3 hours if possible on an average single digit day. I love it. Great product.
 
The standard system should be fine for me here in Kansas. We don't have anything like your winters! The plane is in a carport like set up. It is a hangar without the front door. It keeps the hail & sun off of the plane, but does little for dust in the summer or temperatures in the winter. It opens to the east so it does a good job of keeping the wind off of everything.

Good to hear it is reliable!

Jim
 
I have the turbo XP version and am based in the Mid Atlantic area. I find that I can make a last minute (a few hours) decision to fly and the turbo version can get the engine warmed quickly.

If you couple it with something like a SwitchBox, you can do the start up remotely and without a timer.
 
Done! It was a major PITA to run it across the bottom, but I really like the results. It is a much cleaner install.

It took three tries to get everything sealed up right with the JB weld. My fault. I couldn't find the small popsicle sticks that came with it when I tried the second time. I ended up using tongue depressors. They don't work well. Too big. I found them and used them today for the final seal up job.

Now I need to call my A&P for the final inspection and sign off.

Jim
 
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Kiddo's Driver said:
A&P signed it off Friday. He said it looked wonderful, much better than installed on top.

On a different note, this story makes me not want to leave it running 24/7:

http://www.cnet.com/news/pilot-survives-his-second-plane-crash-may-give-up-flying/#ftag=YHF65cbda0

His first crash was due to mice making a nest in the alternate air path. He had carb ice, put on carb heat and sucked a mouse nest into his carb!

Jim
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That sort of thing can happen no matter what. Mice are a big problem for airplanes. Nests screwing up cooling and airflow, urine causing corrosion, etc.

My bigger concern for leaving it on 24/7 is that you don't want it to cycle. If the power quits, you're cycling it.
 
There are lots of opinions about whether to keep a heater on all the time or not. I'm in the not camp. If my plane has moisture in the engine, and it does, I'd prefer that moisture to freeze. Rust is slowed in freezing temps as opposed to a moist, warm greenhouse. I've disassembled a good running hangared Lycoming 0-320 in spring and was shocked at how much water and cam corrosion there was. That reinforced my preheat and preservative oil choices.
 
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The simple fix is to not leave it plugged in. So I don't. But I doubt many of you park outdoors in Alaska so I wouldn't expect consensus. Different strokes for different folks.

You guys with Lycomings who keep your planes warm should disconnect a couple of your rocker drain lines a few days after a winter flight in cold weather. See how much water you can find. That'll make you reevaluate whether Camguard is worthwhile!
 
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Stewartb said:
The simple fix is to not leave it plugged in. So I don't. But I doubt many of you park outdoors in Alaska so I wouldn't expect consensus. Different strokes for different folks.

You guys with Lycomings who keep your planes warm should disconnect a couple of your rocker drain lines a few days after a winter flight in cold weather. See how much water you can find. That'll make you reevaluate whether Camguard is worthwhile!
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The easiest way to prevent moisture build up in the crankcase is to vent it at the highest point.... Just leave the dipstick loose and let it breath out of the dipstick tube... There will be NO moisture...

I have been leaving mine plugged in from Oct to June, for 10 years.. water stays at 120f , oil stays at 140f.... Not ONE bit of rust /corrosion in the motor at all..

Tens of Millions of cars and trucks stay plugged in each winter without this alleged moisture problem....:rolleyes::rolleyes:....
 
How would you know that there's no corrosion at all? Do you disassemble the engine regularly?

Guys with Lycomings should try my suggestion just for grins. I have no knowledge of or interest in Rotax airplane engines. I do have a couple of Skidoos, though!
 
N801BH said:
The easiest way to prevent moisture build up in the crankcase is to vent it at the highest point.... Just leave the dipstick loose and let it breath out of the dipstick tube... There will be NO moisture...

I have been leaving mine plugged in from Oct to June, for 10 years.. water stays at 120f , oil stays at 140f.... Not ONE bit of rust /corrosion in the motor at all..
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What about the moisture that condenses on the engine block before rising up and out? It's not like there is a wind blowing through to evaporate it off the surfaces and carry it out. I don't disbelieve that you do it without any ill-effects. But I also don't believe simply leaving the dipstick off will prevent it for everyone. I would also imagine the environmental conditions where you are based will play a roll. And leaving the dipstick out may not be practical at all if you aren't in a hangar.


N801BH said:
Tens of Millions of cars and trucks stay plugged in each winter without this alleged moisture problem....:rolleyes::rolleyes:....
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Not debating the rest of what you said. But this point is not really a good comparison. Most of those cars and trucks usually have their engines run all the time. Usually daily or every few days. Most people are not plugging in their pickup truck and letting it sit unused for 3 weeks.
 
Stewartb said:
How would you know that there's no corrosion at all? Do you disassemble the engine regularly?

Guys with Lycomings should try my suggestion just for grins. I have no knowledge of or interest in Rotax airplane engines. I do have a couple of Skidoos, though!
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Cute comments......:lol:.....:rofl:..

And I do know EXACTLY what the inside of my motor looks like... And it is completely rust / corrosion free ...

I, too have a couple of Rotax motors in my racing snowmobiles.. But flush them after each operation since they run on Methanol....
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
What about the moisture that condenses on the engine block before rising up and out? It's not like there is a wind blowing through to evaporate it off the surfaces and carry it out. I don't disbelieve that you do it without any ill-effects. But I also don't believe simply leaving the dipstick off will prevent it for everyone. I would also imagine the environmental conditions where you are based will play a roll. And leaving the dipstick out may not be practical at all if you aren't in a hangar.



Not debating the rest of what you said. But this point is not really a good comparison. Most of those cars and trucks usually have their engines run all the time. Usually daily or every few days. Most people are not plugging in their pickup truck and letting it sit unused for 3 weeks.
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You would be amazed at how many do..... Especially renters who don't have to pay to plug in their vehicles....:mad2::mad2:...:mad:
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
What about the moisture that condenses on the engine block before rising up and out? It's not like there is a wind blowing through to evaporate it off the surfaces and carry it out.
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I figure that with the dipstick off and the heater plugged in, that there IS a convection current rising through the engine - The hotter air in the engine is going to exit the dipstick tube, and cool (and dry) air will come up through the breather to replace it. It'll get heated inside the engine, and the cycle will continue.

That's why I always open up the dipstick as soon as I return to the home 'drome, and plug the plane in as soon as I get it pushed into the hangar. Hopefully I'm allowing both corrosive combustion byproducts and moisture to be continuously flushed out of the engine until my next flight.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I figure that with the dipstick off and the heater plugged in, that there IS a convection current rising through the engine - The hotter air in the engine is going to exit the dipstick tube, and cool (and dry) air will come up through the breather to replace it. It'll get heated inside the engine, and the cycle will continue.

That's why I always open up the dipstick as soon as I return to the home 'drome, and plug the plane in as soon as I get it pushed into the hangar. Hopefully I'm allowing both corrosive combustion byproducts and moisture to be continuously flushed out of the engine until my next flight.
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:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

You have it figured out correctly....

Simple physics..... Heat rises...:yes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I figure that with the dipstick off and the heater plugged in, that there IS a convection current rising through the engine - The hotter air in the engine is going to exit the dipstick tube, and cool (and dry) air will come up through the breather to replace it. It'll get heated inside the engine, and the cycle will continue.

That's why I always open up the dipstick as soon as I return to the home 'drome, and plug the plane in as soon as I get it pushed into the hangar. Hopefully I'm allowing both corrosive combustion byproducts and moisture to be continuously flushed out of the engine until my next flight.
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Isn't the breather up top too? Unless the breather is actually plumbed to the bottom end by the crank, you're not moving that air.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Isn't the breather up top too? Unless the breather is actually plumbed to the bottom end by the crank, you're not moving that air.
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IIRC, the breather is located on the accessory cover about half way up... And... On a flat motor, the crank is in the middle,,, not the bottom end....

For convection, all you need is a slight differential in elevation between the incoming fresh air and the outgoing hot air...
 
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