Regaining Currency/Proficiency as an A&P

kontiki

kontiki

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Kontiki
I got out of the Marine Corps in 1977 (my occupational specialty was parachute rigger for ejection seats), I went to East Coast Aero Tech (Bedford, MA), graduated with honors and a new A&P in 1979.

Within a year I was at Eastern Airlines Miami overhaul center working as a Mechanic.

Over the course of my time as a mechanic I worked as a general mechanic for 1 year, airline technical writer 2-3, full time sheet metal for a couple years, aircraft electrician for a couple years, Lead Man at a part 145 repair station handling overnight maintenance on turbo prop airplanes for a couple years, with a couple odds and ends tossed in, then took a layoff to return to school for an Electrical Engineering Degree.

I got the degree in 96, worked in Navy flight Test (Instrumentation Engineer), worked a Northwest, then Delta, and am currently at a third large cargo airline working as an Avionics Engineer.

About 10 years of my airline engineering work has been handling system configuration for TCAS and Transponder systems at the fleet level.

Lately, I've been providing on call engineering support for our maintenance centers around the globe. Now, I'm typically one of the guys that writes an Engineering Authorization to approve one off temporary repairs that are OK but not written up in the regular AMMs. This role can exist in a large part 121 carrier. We also assist with those really elusive troubleshooting situations that come up on a large computerized jet.

As a private pilot starting to look at buying an airplane, one of the things I'm starting to think about is maintaining my own airplane.

I haven't really kept up with the regulatory side of being a GA mechanic. I'm pretty comfortable with my understanding of my technical strengths and weaknesses. I see a lot of things I think I would do better than what I see in rentals, however I really have no idea how well I'd be able to resurrect my metal skills.

I don't want to maintain other people's aircraft for money. I have given thought to starting a hobby aviation "research" business, maybe to offset the costs of ownership and maybe explore some avionics ideas, but that's way down the road, if at all.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on what I need to do to get back in the game and be legal or proficient?

Thanks
 
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We had an older, out of practice, A&P IA join our club. He went to the local FSDO to see what he needed to get recurrent for just the A&P side. They told him to work with another mechanic for a while, log it, go through a couple of annuals with an IA. Check with his buds to see the way to check for ADs with the newer technology.

Basically they told him to work with what he is comfortable with and ask his peers when he had a question.

Check with your local FSDO mech rep, find an IA that you are comfortable with, you'll need him for the annual inspection support and press on. Our IA would take some factory sponsored engine courses / seminars once in a while. You might like them too.

If you buy an experimental, like an RV, then the A&P can do their own annual "condition inspection", and not need an IA.
 
kontiki said:
Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on what I need to do to get back in the game and be legal or proficient? Thanks
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You are legal to do any thing to any aircraft with in the scope of FAR 65:
65.81 General privileges and limitations.
(a) A certificated mechanic may perform or supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance or alteration of an aircraft or appliance, or a part thereof, for which he is rated (but excluding major repairs to, and major alterations of, propellers, and any repair to, or alteration of, instruments), and may perform additional duties in accordance with §§ 65.85, 65.87, and 65.95. However, he may not supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance, or alteration of, or approve and return to service, any aircraft or appliance, or part thereof, for which he is rated unless he has satisfactorily performed the work concerned at an earlier date. If he has not so performed that work at an earlier date, he may show his ability to do it by performing it to the satisfaction of the Administrator or under the direct supervision of a certificated and appropriately rated mechanic, or a certificated repairman, who has had previous experience in the specific operation concerned.

(b) A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless he understands the current instructions of the manufacturer, and the maintenance manuals, for the specific operation concerned.

Your A&P does not expire,

Maintaining your aircraft? buy right and there won't be that much to do.
 
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What about 65.83 Tom? I'm just curious about your thoughts because I'm in kind of the same situation as the OP.

A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months—

(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months—
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

-jeff
 
Jf1450 said:
What about 65.83 Tom? I'm just curious about your thoughts because I'm in kind of the same situation as the OP.

A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months—

(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months—
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

-jeff
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Thanks Jeff,

I thought I remembered something like that, but haddn't done the research yet. I plan to call the FSDO this week. I actually did make an offer on an airplane and hope to be an owner soon.
 
Jf1450 said:
What about 65.83 Tom? I'm just curious about your thoughts because I'm in kind of the same situation as the OP.

A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months—

(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months—
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

-jeff
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I've never known anyone who was questioned on their prior experience.
 
Jf1450 said:
What about 65.83 Tom? I'm just curious about your thoughts because I'm in kind of the same situation as the OP.

A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months—

(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months—
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

-jeff
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I don't think you need Tom to interpret it for you. Its pretty clear.

Tom-D said:
I've never known anyone who was questioned on their prior experience.
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Although this is most likely the case, it doesn't overrule what the reg says. As most things aviation related--Nobody cares until you have to explain it during an investigation.

Best thing to do is contact your FSDO PMI and ask what they would like.
 
Just to be clear, I've known a few A&Ps that quit the industry, I don't know if any ever tried to come back.

Most of the freelanced A&Ps that I do know work it part time or work their own aircraft and have done so for a long time.

Does this rule prohibit me from recovering an aircraft when I have not done it in the last 2 years? or overhauling an engine when I haven't done one in the past?

How does one prove compliance with this rule? Must we keep a log of work done?

Another one of the FAAs stupid rules that are unenforceable .
 
One of my instructors for A&P training had not worked on AC in a dozen years as he was instructor/administrator. He bought a shelled out Cherokee, tie down queen for about $4k and went through it top to bottom and for less than about $10k plus his time he now has a pretty spiffy Cherokee 140 that is perfect in every way except he has not gotten to the new paint job yet.

He said that project brought all of his skills back and even learned a couple more. No doubt he can transfer those Piper Cherokee skills to most Cessna, Beech, Grumman and other AC.

--I think I would go this route myself if I had the time. The second thought is that avionics installation is an area where there seems to be plenty of demand and very high prices. A sizable amount of time is the prep of paperwork however once you have created the paper work on your computer it is faster to print it out the 2nd time around. My avionics guy wanted $1000 just to print out the paperwork he already had in his computer.

The only caveat is a) If you could not you make more money doing something else? b) do you like it. If the answer s yes to both then go full steam ahead.
 
Someone told me, but I cannot recall the source, that the FAA was interpreting the six month requirement to mean that you needed 1,000 hours of relevant work experience over the past two years.
 
I've been telling aircraft owners where to go and what to do for a long time, I guess I've always been current.
 
There is not a real requirement, you can work with your A&P right away.
You are not doing major alterations, or overhauls. And I think you can not longer use your A&P for that kind of work anyway, you have to work under a Part 145 for that.
 
WarriorPilot said:
There is not a real requirement, you can work with your A&P right away.
You are not doing major alterations, or overhauls. And I think you can not longer use your A&P for that kind of work anyway, you have to work under a Part 145 for that.
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Engine overhauls are actually a minor repair per Part 43. The catch is you have to have a basis to say you know what you are doing, and have the appropriate tools and equipment.
 
Frank said:
Engine overhauls are actually a minor repair per Part 43. The catch is you have to have a basis to say you know what you are doing, and have the appropriate tools and equipment.
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There is nothing saying you as an A&P can't contract out, any part of the overhaul that you do not have a tool to do.

I can not turn a crank, or plate the parts, so I have Aircraft Specialities on Tulsa OK do that.

I can't lap and line bore a case, So I have Chuck Ney in Tulsa do that.

So to do a complete overhaul, you really don't have to own all the tools.
 
Tom-D said:
There is nothing saying you as an A&P can't contract out, any part of the overhaul that you do not have a tool to do.

I can not turn a crank, or plate the parts, so I have Aircraft Specialities on Tulsa OK do that.

I can't lap and line bore a case, So I have Chuck Ney in Tulsa do that.

So to do a complete overhaul, you really don't have to own all the tools.
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I agree with Tom, I can even send the propeller out to AAR for overhaul and have it back in one week. The only stuff you are required to have calibrated is a torque wrench, and of course the appropriate Manual.
 
WarriorPilot said:
There is not a real requirement, you can work with your A&P right away.
You are not doing major alterations, or overhauls. And I think you can not longer use your A&P for that kind of work anyway, you have to work under a Part 145 for that.
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Or an IA, but as noted overhauls, (excluding engines with other than spur type propeller reduction gearing or with integral superchargers) are minor repairs.
 
Tom-D said:
Just to be clear, I've known a few A&Ps that quit the industry, I don't know if any ever tried to come back.

Most of the freelanced A&Ps that I do know work it part time or work their own aircraft and have done so for a long time.

Does this rule prohibit me from recovering an aircraft when I have not done it in the last 2 years? or overhauling an engine when I haven't done one in the past?

How does one prove compliance with this rule? Must we keep a log of work done?

Another one of the FAAs stupid rules that are unenforceable .
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I got my A&P a long time ago by experience. I remember the examiner wasn't going to sign me off on the powerplant but as we were standing outside the FISDO this other guy came out and you know, I didn't really know him but I had met him about a week ago and he happened to own an Alfa Romeo like me and we had talked about that. So my examiner asks "do you know this guy?" and he says yes and suddenly I'm one of the "good ol' boys" and get my sign off.

It's karma, I'm telling you. I must have earned it in a prior life...:rolleyes:
 
RotorAndWing said:
David Hays, ASI AW at the MEM FSDO. 901-322-8688

Good guy!
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I called David this morning. He said, review the FARs and get familiar with the aircraft buy working with someone familiar with type. It's probably a good time to get familiar review the latest version of the 43.13 too.

The aircraft I'm buying is an AA-5B and there is a local CFI/A&P that used to work for the OEM.

So, I'm now pondering the merits of hangaring the airplane at a field 45 min away (KNQA, where fuel is an extra $1.00/gal) so I can be in an adjacent T Hangar (vs. the field 5 min (M01) away that flooded a couple years ago). Practice with the tower radio is always good too.
 
kontiki said:
I called David this morning. He said, review the FARs and get familiar with the aircraft buy working with someone familiar with type. It's probably a good time to get familiar review the latest version of the 43.13 too.

The aircraft I'm buying is an AA-5B and there is a local CFI/A&P that used to work for the OEM.

So, I'm now pondering the merits of hangaring the airplane at a field 45 min away (KNQA, where fuel is an extra $1.00/gal) so I can be in an adjacent T Hangar (vs. the field 5 min (M01) away that flooded a couple years ago). Practice with the tower radio is always good too.
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Glad you got to talk to David. :thumbsup:

BTW, I think there are some hangar space at Baker. There are the city owned hangars, then there are a couple of others owned by private individuals.

One of those set of T-hangars is owned by a FedEx pilot. Go up to Baker and look on the BB at the FBO. The private owned hangars are on the north side of the airport.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Glad you got to talk to David. :thumbsup:

BTW, I think there are some hangar space at Baker. There are the city owned hangars, then there are a couple of others owned by private individuals.

One of those set of T-hangars is owned by a FedEx pilot. Go up to Baker and look on the BB at the FBO. The private owned hangars are on the north side of the airport.
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Thanks for the heads up. I've been to one or two of the pot luck picnics up there. They seem like a nice group.
 
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