Red Lake Tribe banning all flights below 20,000 feet above the reservation

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This reminds me of a pilot YouTuber a few years ago that called and got permission to land at a private strip inside an Indian reservation and subsequently got his plane impounded, because whoever he got permission from did not have authority to issue it. It ended up going to a tribal court, and a suit case of money was used to make the problem go away.

 
It may take some time, but I do not believe the tribe can ban overflights since it is still Federal Airspace. Similar to how towns and cities can work with the FAA for Noise Abatement, but they cannot ban overflights with a city ordinance.

Landing on the tribal road might be a different issue. So hopefully the tribal judge will accept the emergency situation.
 
I’m saying the FAA expects us to know when and where every major sporting event is happening and where every nuclear power plant is without any help from them. They’d certainly be willing to hang us out to dry on this as well.
But stadiums are actually shown on a chart ditto power plants, and when there's 30,000 people present it becomes a tfr...that also pops up. Absolutely nothing for a reservation.

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I fail to see how these are the same or how they haven't helped with your examples given they are charted.
 
If you go back and read their original resolution, I can understand it. They are dependent on the land and the USAF said, "Hey, we're going to create a military training route to fly jets at relatively low altitudes over your land." They pushed back and said, "We're making a new rule that you have to be 20k feet over our land because it will mess with the animals and we depend on that.

Now bring in Mr. G. A. Pilot and he has never sniffed 20k feet in his plane. That's not what they were worried about. He isn't a military jet. He wasn't messing with the wildlife. He had an emergency and rather than create a crater in their land, he safely landed on the road. I think that, if they just use the reasoning in their original resolution, this will all be over at the council meeting.
My rebuttal... Animals don't give a **** about low flying planes. USAF uses where I go elk hunting in northern new Mexico as a route in the mountains. A few hundred feet at best. Random times. Woke me up at 2:30 am a few times. The elk are bugling 10 minutes later....after I regain my hearing.
 
But stadiums are actually shown on a chart ditto power plants, and when there's 30,000 people present it becomes a tfr...that also pops up. Absolutely nothing for a reservation.

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I fail to see how these are the same or how they haven't helped with your examples given they are charted.
How long and how much argument did they give before they were charted?
 
Can we just agree in principle that tribes, whoever they may be, SHOULD NOT be able to deny access below FL200?

The tribes might mean well, idk. But they almost certainly don't know what an effective TFR does.
 
Do they have airports on their land?
If any receive federal funding, that should cease.
They should also be denied any benefit from aviation until they stop impounding aircraft; fire fighting, medicsl transport, passenger or cargo transport.
 
I’m saying the FAA expects us to know when and where every major sporting event is happening and where every nuclear power plant is without any help from them. They’d certainly be willing to hang us out to dry on this as well.
Heck, I fly right over a nuke plant all the time. Seabook is 4 miles south of 7B3. NBD.
 
In my county, a hot air balloon had to set down on a ranch. The ranch owner rushed out to them, pulled a gun on them and told them they were trespassing. The pilot told him he just had to get his balloon secured and have someone come pick them up and they'd be gone. The rancher told them there was no need for that, the balloon was on his property and it now belonged to him! He said they shouldn't have been flying over his property and they were not allowed to leave until the police arrived to arrest them.

The Sheriff's Department showed up and told him he had to let them leave and take the balloon. He stood his ground, saying it belonged to him and he wanted them all arrested. They told him they were going to arrest him for theft, kidnapping and more. He finally said he would let them reinflate the balloon and walk it out. The pilot quickly agreed to this to end the situation.

The pilot told one of the deputies that from their launch site, there was 100% chance they'd fly over this ranch again. The deputy laughed and told him to carry a gun.
 
I've seen numerous private strip owners declare their intent to not allow pilots who landed there to depart.

Hotheads all over the place.
 
There was an incident where an international photographer was touring the US and had his ultra light in a trailer, parked off reservation. He put the ultra light together and flew over the reservation taking pictures of their Sky Walk that juts out over the Grand Canyon. Tribal Police came off reservation and confiscated his trailer and auto. Demanding he did not have rights to fly over and take pictures. I forget the outcome.

This is the same tribe that contracted with a non-tribal company to build the sky walk. When it was completed, they kicked the company off the reservation and refused to pay the contract. They advertised the sky walk to draw tourists dollars.

I lived in the desert southwest for 25 yrs. Because of their actions, I do not plan to visit any tribal casinos of any tribe.
 
Who paid for the road that was landed on?
I don't know about the res in question, but on the Navajo res the federal government pays for, builds and maintains the roads on the res. For this reason the NM state police can patrol the roads on the res. However, any tickets or other violations will get moved to the res courts where indian usually will not convict indian for any, ANY crime.

IMHO, federal subsidizing of reservations needs to be phased out.
 
My CFI told me that KCTB was considering closing down . The airport is an old WWII training base on Blackfoot Reservation. All the Glacier County shops and equipment are on the surrounding property. There once was an operation tower there ,now closed .

There was also Customs / Immigration office on airport. The Customs / Immigration still will clear there but they have to travel from the Sweet Grass Port of Entry. An advanced time of ? Is required so that Port officials have time to drive from Sweet Grass to KTCB .

It also serves the UPS air freight terminal for UPS deliveries in area. The UPS delivery is off reservation but depends on Airport for the overnight delivery’s.

Not sure of the politics of this with the Tribal Council and Glacier County.

Interesting reading of the Red Lake tribe deciding to do this.

The Blackfoot tribe is claiming jurisdiction on all waters arising on reservation . The Saint Mary’s , Milk River, Marias All are tributaries to the Missouri.
 
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IMHO, federal subsidizing of reservations needs to be phased out.
I'm adopted and my Dad who adopted me was full-blooded Cherokee. I remember sitting around listening to him and my uncles talking about the reservations. They offer them a free house, free food, etc. Without a purpose in life, a lot of them sit around and drink and waste away. They always rejected any offers of free land.

He did like the Cherokee Nation though. I do remember them paying for his dentures and hearing aids along with some other medical needs.
 
They offer them a free house, free food, etc. Without a purpose in life, a lot of them sit around and drink and waste away.
Sounds like the Navajo res.

Don't take me wrong, I have met a lot of Eskimo and Navajo people that are hard working, trust worthy and helpful people. I have been accepted by the Eskimo and Navajo people because I accept and respect their life style and did not try to interfere. But, as in all races, there are the good and bad, with the bad usually being a very small part.

TBH, I have lived with the Navajo and Eskimo people for so long that now I get nervous when in a room full of white folks...
 
I don't know about the res in question, but on the Navajo res the federal government pays for, builds and maintains the roads on the res. For this reason the NM state police can patrol the roads on the res. However, any tickets or other violations will get moved to the res courts where indian usually will not convict indian for any, ANY crime.

IMHO, federal subsidizing of reservations needs to be phased out.
This is exactly as I suspected. So, if the federal government built and maintains the road. I would imagine the state would plow the roads as well. Where I'm from I don't own the road, or even the few feet of right of way leading up to the road.
 
Sounds like the Navajo res.

Don't take me wrong, I have met a lot of Eskimo and Navajo people that are hard working, trust worthy and helpful people. I have been accepted by the Eskimo and Navajo people because I accept and respect their life style and did not try to interfere. But, as in all races, there are the good and bad, with the bad usually being a very small part.

TBH, I have lived with the Navajo and Eskimo people for so long that now I get nervous when in a room full of white folks...
One year I wasn't going to make it before sunset to set up camp. Ended up staying at the Jicarilla Apache reservation casino. They've got an airport in the middle of nowhere, but it's not private and recently re opened after a long notam closure.

Nice place. Nice people. Went to get breakfast before we left. There was a group of people already eating and 2 of them were full on traditional attire. When we sat down, I realized my dumb ass is wearing a Chicago Blackhawks zip up hoodie. I couldn't get that off fast enough.
 
When we sat down, I realized my dumb ass is wearing a Chicago Blackhawks zip up hoodie. I couldn't get that off fast enough.
Lol. Well, it's better than the old Cleveland Indians logo...
 
That wasn't a characicture but a real person.
I agree on this one. The name was one thing... but at least the logo looked like it was respectful/dignified/regal, etc.

Like the Blackhawks name/logo, is more of an homage than a caricature.

Chief Wahoo on the other hand...
 
Those mascots were warriors and most of the natives like them. My Dad was a Redneck Redskin! He was an Cherokee who worked in the oil field. He even had the farmers tan, except his skin was more of a shade of red.

My high school joined with two other schools and became the West Texas Comanches and the tribe adopted us.

The Plemons-Stinnett-Phillips (PSP) Consolidated Independent School District in West Texas officially adopted the Comanche Nation in a ceremony in 2000, which involved the school district changing its mascot and colors to align with the tribe. During the event, Tribal Chairman Kenneth Saupitty read a proclamation, and Comanche braves gave the high school a handmade lance, shield, and ax. This adoption was part of the school district's decision to adopt the Comanches as their mascot and name, following initiated talks with the Comanche Nation of Oklahoma.
 
Like the Blackhawks name/logo, is more of an homage than a caricature.
And arguably the best looking jersey/sweater in sports.

The Blackhawks have donated 600k in the last few years to local tribes and they still catch flak for use of the image.

 
USAF uses where I go elk hunting in northern new Mexico as a route in the mountains. A few hundred feet at best. Random times. Woke me up at 2:30 am a few times. The elk are bugling 10 minutes later....after I regain my hearing.
I’m sitting in the woods for whitetail as I read your post and wishing I could get one of your magic planes to fly over me about now!
 
I've seen numerous private strip owners declare their intent to not allow pilots who landed there to depart.

Hotheads all over the place.
A member here said he'd park a tractor on his privately owned public use runway if someone tried to depart at night since night takeoffs were not permitted.
 
Native Americans, the credits due, and some debits. Date is 1950's and earlier.

Yes the rest of us subsidized the reservations in the "Sovereign Nations".

They were subject to the draft just like all the rest of the healthy males of America. That was a high price to pay to have your roads paved and other benefits.

On a personal case, I crossed the Atlantic on the General Patch, KP all the way. The portion 4 of us had was fine, except we were on the lowest deck. Being a bit of a scoff law, and an explorer, I tested what would happen if we went to the foredeck, which was off limits. I marched my 3 man detail up to the bow, and later marched them back. I watched the time, and was never late for when we did our work. I was successful, even telling an officer from the bridge that we were supposed to be there for our breaks, so our 'boss' could find us easily, later the ranking MP found us, and defeated with the same story.

The Navajo in our group was in very bad spirits, from the rigidity of the basic and later training, then cooped up in the hold, no fresh air.
The foredeck had no oil fumes from the boilers, limitless views, beautiful clouds and pure blue sky. When I stood up to authority, and effectively drove them away, he concluded that I had powers like the medicine men of the tribe.
In Italy, he told all his room mates of his friend who took command of the bow of the ship, and held it in spite of attempts by higher ranking officers to send us back to the hold.
That time on the bow took him back to the desert in many respects, even though the sand was water, it was all clean and pure as it came to us.
We started at 5 in the morning, finished at 10 at night, but had a lot of free time through the day, and spent it all on the bow.

I had long talks with "Navajo", and came to appreciate what his tribe endured in the pre 1950 time period. His family was hard working, he went to white mans school off reservation, and at age 5, in the summer, herded the family sheep, solo. He was alone with 20 or 30 sheep and his dog for a week at a time, with a chunk of belly meat to slice for grease, and cornmeal to make mush or stone baked loaves. He moved the sheep from one area to another, and at each fresh area, restored the brush corral for the sheep at night, he and his dog slept at the entrance to guard against occasional wolves or cayotes. Beyond his clothes he had a heavy wool blanket with symbols woven into it to protect him.
All I ever called him was Navajo, as I could not pronounce his native name, and the Hispanic name given him in the school was offensive to him, but was on his uniform.

A lot of his tribe were drafted and died in the Korean war. We were in, 1956 to 58, between the wars.
 
That time on the bow took him back to the desert in many respects, even though the sand was water, it was all clean and pure as it came to us.

“ The ocean is a desert with it’s life under ground and a perfect disguise above” - America, A Horse With No Name

Thanks, @geezer , for these fabulous stories. You should write the book!
 
My CFI told me that KTCB was considering closing down . The airport is an old WWII training base on Blackfoot Reservation. All the Glacier County shops and equipment are on the surrounding property. There once was an operation tower there ,now closed .

There was also Customs / Immigration office on airport. The Customs / Immigration still will clear there but they have to travel from the Sweet Grass Port of Entry. An advanced time of ? Is required so that Port officials have time to drive from Sweet Grass to KTCB .
TCB… are you thinking of CTB, Cut Bank, MT? Sounds like what you’re describing…
 
If the pilot and a bunch of heavily armed friends went to retrieve the plane, would any US authority care, or would it just be "tough cookies tribe, if you want to play at being your own nation then it's your problem"?
 
If the pilot and a bunch of heavily armed friends went to retrieve the plane, would any US authority care, or would it just be "tough cookies tribe, if you want to play at being your own nation then it's your problem"?
I have no idea what the answer to that question is today, but I'm pretty sure I know what the answer was 150 years ago.

Ok, I might have an idea of what would happen today. Leaders of today operate much more from a basis of fear than they did 150 years ago. Which is funny, because the effective threats from almost every direction are pretty much infinitesimal now compared to then.
 
If the pilot and a bunch of heavily armed friends went to retrieve the plane, would any US authority care, or would it just be "tough cookies tribe, if you want to play at being your own nation then it's your problem"?

Indians have guns too.
 
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