Recurrent Training?

Utah-Jay

Utah-Jay

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
446
Location
KHCR
Display Name
Display name:
Jay
What is the deal? Is it required for some airplanes?
 
Depends on what kind of 'recurrent' training we are talking about.....there are FAA requirements for recurrent training in aircraft requiring type ratings and there are insurance driven annual training requirements in certain aircraft depending on the terms of the policy and aircraft in question.
 
AggieMike88 said:
What situation did you encounter that prompted the question?
Click to expand...


I was just reading, seems all I do is read :) I spend lots of time in hotels as I travel for work.

Just curious, it was related to a insurance/recurrent post
 
Depends. 135/121 requires it, and certain airplanes (mostly pressurized/turbine) require it as well from an insurance perspective.

My insurance offers no discount for recurrent in the 310, but they do ask for date of last flight review/IPC.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Depends. 135/121 requires it, and certain airplanes (mostly pressurized/turbine) require it as well from an insurance perspective.

My insurance offers no discount for recurrent in the 310, but they do ask for date of last flight review/IPC.
Click to expand...

No Honors student discounts?

Yeah few years back there were frequently 10-15% discounts on HP/Complex like Bonanza/Comanche if you took the factory or otherwise authorized (flight safety) training. Not sure with more competition and lowered insurance rates overall if this has gone to the wayside or not.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
No Honors student discounts?

Yeah few years back there were frequently 10-15% discounts on HP/Complex like Bonanza/Comanche if you took the factory or otherwise authorized (flight safety) training. Not sure with more competition and lowered insurance rates overall if this has gone to the wayside or not.
Click to expand...

As it was explained to me, I was already considered a maximum honor student since I flew 500+ hours per year, was on a 135 cert, etc.

Edit: but I'm pretty certain they don't care if I take any recurrent training anyway.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
As it was explained to me, I was already considered a maximum honor student since I flew 500+ hours per year, was on a 135 cert, etc.

Edit: but I'm pretty certain they don't care if I take any recurrent training anyway.
Click to expand...

500 hrs a year doesn't leave much time between flights to forget much I suppose.
 
In the turbine world, insurance usually wants an annual recurrent for part 91. Part 121/135 PIC recurrent is every 6 months, SIC is every 12.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Depends. 135/121 requires it, and certain airplanes (mostly pressurized/turbine) require it as well from an insurance perspective.

My insurance offers no discount for recurrent in the 310, but they do ask for date of last flight review/IPC.
Click to expand...

It's mostly an insurance thing. We could technically just do a 61.58 and a 135.293/297/99 ride every year in the airplane, but our insurance requires sim training every 12 months.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
It's mostly an insurance thing. We could technically just do a 61.58 and a 135.293/297/99 ride every year in the airplane, but our insurance requires sim training every 12 months.
Click to expand...

That is because it is generally not accepted to do V1 cuts in the plane. Most insurances won't allow certain maneuvers to be done in the plane. Single engine approach sure, but a single engine takeoff? Uhhhh lets do that in the sim lol.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
500 hrs a year doesn't leave much time between flights to forget much I suppose.
Click to expand...

So goes the theory. And certainly I felt more at home in a plane than a car during those days, so I think they're right on with that.

The negative was that those 500 hours were split between the 310, the Aztec, two Navajos (a 310 and a Chieftain 350), the Cheyenne, the Commander 690 (actually I flew a second Commander now and then), and throw in a few other planes now and then. Lots of different aircraft with different power settings, different emergency procedures, different panels, etc. I never felt like I had a problem because of it, but I am also happier being dedicated to one plane now.
 
Other than jets, I think recurrent training is insurance driven. I have to go once per year for the 421, but nothing specific for the 182. I am legal to fly the 421 with just a BFR, but my insurance requires type specific training at least once per year.
 
N747JB said:
Other than jets, I think recurrent training is insurance driven.
Click to expand...
A little more than just jets. Anything that is type certified to require more than one crew member is affected whether being flown under 91, 121 or 135. It is officially called a PIC proficiency check under 61.58. For the SIC, 61.55 applies.

As a DC-3 SIC, I have to have completed recurrent training per 61.55 within the past 12 months if we are carrying pax.
 
Fearless Tower said:
A little more than just jets. Anything that is type certified to require more than one crew member is affected whether being flown under 91, 121 or 135. It is officially called a PIC proficiency check under 61.58. For the SIC, 61.55 applies.

As a DC-3 SIC, I have to have completed recurrent training per 61.55 within the past 12 months if we are carrying pax.
Click to expand...

True, I guess I oversimplified my answer. :D I just always think of jets and type ratings together.:dunno:
 
RotorAndWing said:
For 121 it depends upon the training program being used. FWIW I never seen a 121 operator do recurrent every 6 months.
Click to expand...

I only assumed 121 was similar because 135 is that way. Even PIC checks in the 121 world are every 12 months?
 
Inverted said:
I only assumed 121 was similar because 135 is that way. Even PIC checks in the 121 world are every 12 months?
Click to expand...
I believe that most in 121 fall under an Advanced Qualification Program that essentially maintains continuous qualification....kind of like airlines with continuous maintenance programs don't do annual inspections.
 
Inverted said:
I only assumed 121 was similar because 135 is that way. Even PIC checks in the 121 world are every 12 months?
Click to expand...

Depends. Each airline has it's own approved training program.

121 and 135 are not the same programs when it comes to training and recurrent training.
 
RotorAndWing said:
For 121 it depends upon the training program being used. FWIW I never seen a 121 operator do recurrent every 6 months.
Click to expand...

I *think* some airlines send their captains to recurrent twice a year and F/O's once a year. I could be wrong though..
 
GCA319 said:
I *think* some airlines send their captains to recurrent twice a year and F/O's once a year. I could be wrong though..
Click to expand...

I have heard this.

I am aware of the continuous training programs which I love. But I am not sure who uses this. Last I remembered SWA was sending their CA's every 6 and FO's every 12.
 
My CFII gets sent to Flight Saftey every 6 months, not sure if its a insurance deal or company policy (G5). A Paris jet I help out on with maintance is now required for pilots to get recurrent training but the problem is there is no sim or qualified person to give the training so the owner is stuck with a plane that can not be flown.
 
Inverted said:
I have heard this.

I am aware of the continuous training programs which I love. But I am not sure who uses this. Last I remembered SWA was sending their CA's every 6 and FO's every 12.
Click to expand...

Under AQP both crewmembers receive the same training, so they wouldn't have different requirements for different seats as AQP is a CRM and a TEM based training event.

Southwest has an AQP program.
 
Last edited:
Luvrv8 said:
My CFII gets sent to Flight Saftey every 6 months, not sure if its a insurance deal or company policy (G5). A Paris jet I help out on with maintance is now required for pilots to get recurrent training but the problem is there is no sim or qualified person to give the training so the owner is stuck with a plane that can not be flown.
Click to expand...

This has happened with more than one plane. I would think you could do in-aircraft training by somebody who is typed.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Under AQP both crewmembers receive the same training, so they wouldn't have different requirements for different seats as AQP is a CRM and a TEM based training event.

Southwest has an AQP program.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Thanks.
 
Luvrv8 said:
. A Paris jet I help out on with maintance is now required for pilots to get recurrent training but the problem is there is no sim or qualified person to give the training so the owner is stuck with a plane that can not be flown.
Click to expand...

Go talk to these people http://ms760.com/

Plus you can ask the FSDO to look in the National Resource directory for an ASI that has an MS760 type rating and he can do the recurrency check ride.
 
As a part 91 guy, I didn't need it until I got a pressurized twin. Insurance requirement. Partly because of the insurance coverage amount and partly because total flying time and twin time was under a set amount. I know folks with 100,000 per seat and much higher times that didn't need to go. If you want 1M smooth or more, and have under a few thousand hours of twin time, you'll most likely need it for a pressurized twin. Didn't need it in the turbo A-36 (single) or A-55 Baron.

Same when I went to the twin turbine (King Air). I have over 1,000 hours twin time now, but much higher insurance smooth coverage. I really to like the extra training. It makes me focus on this each year and one does things in the sim they wouldn't do in their plane as has been said. Great place to learn emergency procedures and systems without risking damaging anything. It doesn't fly like the plane, but for systems and procedures, it's good. I still do in plane training, like a lot of approach work.

I'll defer to others on the 121 135 stuff (g)

Best,

Dave
 
RotorAndWing said:
Go talk to these people http://ms760.com/

Plus you can ask the FSDO to look in the National Resource directory for an ASI that has an MS760 type rating and he can do the recurrency check ride.
Click to expand...
Without getting into the complete details it basically comes down to the guy in the US with the most time in a Paris jet does not meet what the FAA wants to give the training.
 
Why does pressurization matter?
 
Zhunter said:
Why does pressurization matter?
Click to expand...
Generally speaking, the higher in the atomosphere, the faster you can go (and the more efficient the airplane is (ie fuel burn in a jet or turbine for example is significantly lower in the flight levels). Most pax don't really enjoy sucking O2 through a mask for the whole flight.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Generally speaking, the higher in the atomosphere, the faster you can go (and the more efficient the airplane is (ie fuel burn in a jet or turbine for example is significantly lower in the flight levels). Most pax don't really enjoy sucking O2 through a mask for the whole flight.
Click to expand...

I knew those points, but wondered why recurrent training is required for pressurized planes
 
More systems, flying up high (more severe weather up there), and more emergency procedures (like emergency descent) are all reasons for extra training requirements for pressurized aircraft.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
More systems, flying up high (more severe weather up there), and more emergency procedures (like emergency descent) are all reasons for extra training requirements for pressurized aircraft.
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
If it's a 135 airplane, its FAA-required. For a variety of reasons many owners operate under part 135 even thought their use would qualify as 91.

Luvrv8 said:
My CFII gets sent to Flight Saftey every 6 months, not sure if its a insurance deal or company policy (G5). A Paris jet I help out on with maintance is now required for pilots to get recurrent training but the problem is there is no sim or qualified person to give the training so the owner is stuck with a plane that can not be flown.
Click to expand...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
More systems, flying up high (more severe weather up there), and more emergency procedures (like emergency descent) are all reasons for extra training requirements for pressurized aircraft.
Click to expand...

I certainly agree with Ted. Also, in a pressurized plane, longer trips would be the norm; so, more challenges including changes in the weather enroute. One really has to look at departure, what may be a long enroute segment, and arrival. Last week, I was on a 5.5 hour flight. Can be a long time from departure to arrival with a lot of different weather along the way.

Best,

Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top