Recommendations for airplane purchase/partnership-Need lots of advice

[asgcpa]

Hi all,

Am looking to put together an aircraft partnership in the Chicago area (north burbs - KPWK ). Have 2, possibly 3 people (including myself) that have expressed interest.

Several questions that I would like to put to the group:

1. Is there an optimum number of partners to be put into a partnership based on experience? Would you recommend an odd number of partners for decision making purposes, i.e. 3 or 5?

2. This may be too difficult, based on the following criteria, what are your recommendations for aircraft to look at:

- Must hold a minimum of 4 people, with a useful load of 1,200+ pounds.
- No preference if retract or fixed gear
- use 10-12 gph at 75% power cruise
- Be relatively (i know that is a subjective term) easy to fly for lower time pilots, i.e have good handling characteristics both in the air and on the ground
- Can cruise at 140 or so + knots
- Have ample cabin room for bigger folks
- Be a popular commercial make/model - i.e. no experimentals
- Generally have a decent panel for IFR platform (yes I know there are options all over the board on this one - I guess I am looking for "typical" stock configurations)
- One with a good operating history for the make/model
- One that has groups of pilots who fly type
- One with manufacturer support
- prefer, but not absolute, fuel injected
- has an autopilot such as an (but not absolute) S Tec 55.

Keep in mind, two of the individuals in the group have either NO or Little retract time. Please give make and specific model, and years if possible. Also, which are costlier items to install - autopilots or GPS units.

3. For the IFR platform, what are recommendations for avionics to look for (i.e. type - GPS etc, radios, make/model).

4. What are some other features to look for?

On a preliminary basis, we believe the aircraft will probably have to be 200+ HP at a minimum.

5. How do you find good A&P for pre-buy inspections? Would you roll up the pre-buy into an "annual" thereby accelerating the annual?

6. For a 4 seater such as a C-182, Dakota/Pathfinder, Comanche, Mooney, etc, what are costs for totally overhauling the interior?

7. For those aircraft, what are costs for adding an autopilot, i.e. an STEC 55, if none currently exist and have never been installed and are there any recommendations for good shops. How long does such a project usually take?

8. What does it cost to upgrade a Garmin 430 or 530 non WAAS to WAAS? How long does that take? What do the database subscriptions for those units cost on an annual basis? Again, are there any recommendations for good shops?

9. If going to glass panels, are Aspen 1000 available used? If so, how would I find out?

10. Are there any reputable shops that sell used/refurbished avionics? Is this a good way to go?

11. Has anyone ever used AOPA legal services in reviewing the purchase agreements? Were they timely?

12. Any suggestions for good places to look for insurance? I am a member of EAA and AOPA.

13. Any ideas what it will cost to swap out a transponder to make it 2020 compliant?

14. Lets say you have an aircraft that is reasonably well maintained, no corrosion, about 1,000 hours before engine overhaul. All A/D are complied with. Interior is aged. Needs a paint job, has no autopilot, needs a 430 WAAS upgrade, but meets all other requirements. What are recommendations your for the order of upgrade and relative cost.

15. What does it cost to cut a custom panel? Any ideas of reputable shops.

16. Any suggestions on where, how to look for such an aircraft?


Thanks for all your anticipated input.

 

[JHW]

You are in some expensive and crowded real estate. Before I worry about finding a plane I'd suggest securing a place to keep it.

 

[asgcpa]

You are in some expensive and crowded real estate. Before I worry about finding a plane I'd suggest securing a place to keep it.

I know...working on that one as we type....

 

[poadeleted20]

1. Is there an optimum number of partners to be put into a partnership based on experience? Would you recommend an odd number of partners for decision making purposes, i.e. 3 or 5?

Too many variables. You need to look into how much flying each partner will do, and when they like to fly. If everyone wants to fly the plane on holiday weekends, and nobody flies it on regular weekdays, you're going to get into a lot of scheduling conflicts, and the plane won't fly enough to justify itself. If you get a mix of flying needs (some business, some weekend $100 hamburgers, some vacation travel), it works much better.

2. This may be too difficult, based on the following criteria, what are your recommendations for aircraft to look at:

- Must hold a minimum of 4 people, with a useful load of 1,200+ pounds.
- No preference if retract or fixed gear
- use 10-12 gph at 75% power cruise
- Be relatively (i know that is a subjective term) easy to fly for lower time pilots, i.e have good handling characteristics both in the air and on the ground
- Can cruise at 140 or so + knots
- Have ample cabin room for bigger folks
- Be a popular commercial make/model - i.e. no experimentals
- Generally have a decent panel for IFR platform (yes I know there are options all over the board on this one - I guess I am looking for "typical" stock configurations)
- One with a good operating history for the make/model
- One that has groups of pilots who fly type
- One with manufacturer support
- prefer, but not absolute, fuel injected
- has an autopilot such as an (but not absolute) S Tec 55.

Keep in mind, two of the individuals in the group have either NO or Little retract time. Please give make and specific model, and years if possible.

Nothing meets all your wants, but a 1960's-70's Cessna 182 or Piper Dakota will come close -- maybe 5-10 knots short of speed, at the top end of fuel consumption, and carbureted. The problem you have is that 10-12 gph isn't enough energy to move that much mass that fast. You can find planes with the speed but not the useful load, and planes with the useful load and speed but well over the fuel consumption, but 1200 lb useful load/140 knots/12 gph is pushing the envelope of the laws of physics.

Also, which are costlier items to install - autopilots or GPS units.

Depends on what you want. Do you want a full-featured WAAS navigator like a Garmin 430W or a basic non-WAAS GPS like a King KLN-94? Do you want a full-featured 2-axis autopilot like the S-Tec 55X or a simple single-axis heading/tracking unit like the S-Tec 20?

3. For the IFR platform, what are recommendations for avionics to look for (i.e. type - GPS etc, radios, make/model).

The Garmin GNS 430W is pretty much the gold standards in light singles today. I see more of them than anything else (almost more than everything else put together) in the planes of my clients for 10-day instrument courses. Beyond that, avoid Narco (too hard to get fixed now that Narco is out of business), and avoid old mechanical nav/comms. If you get a GPS, you can omit ADF and DME.

4. What are some other features to look for?

On a preliminary basis, we believe the aircraft will probably have to be 200+ HP at a minimum.

More like 230 HP for the payload and speed you want.

5. How do you find good A&P for pre-buy inspections?

Talk to aircraft owners, and avoid the seller's mechanic.

Would you roll up the pre-buy into an "annual" thereby accelerating the annual?

No need for that. Doing an annual requires some additional things which don't matter on a pre-purchase inspection.

6. For a 4 seater such as a C-182, Dakota/Pathfinder, Comanche, Mooney, etc, what are costs for totally overhauling the interior?

You can do it yourself for maybe $2500-3000 for materials. If done by a shop, it could be double that.

7. For those aircraft, what are costs for adding an autopilot, i.e. an STEC 55, if none currently exist and have never been installed

Maybe $18K for a 55X with all the bells and whistles.

and are there any recommendations for good shops.

Sure. I see you're in Illinois, but I don't know any in that area.

How long does such a project usually take?

5-10 working days.

8. What does it cost to upgrade a Garmin 430 or 530 non WAAS to WAAS?

About $4K including parts and labor.

How long does that take?

About two weeks. The long pole in the tent is Garmin's turnaround time on putting the new circuit boards in the unit itself.

What do the database subscriptions for those units cost on an annual basis?

Depends on what coverage you want, but my East and Central coverage for my 530W (same cost for 430W) is about $370/year.

Again, are there any recommendations for good shops?

Not in Illinois, but I know a really good shop in Eastern Pennsylvania -- Lancaster Avionics.

9. If going to glass panels, are Aspen 1000 available used? If so, how would I find out?

I have no idea, but a good avionics shop can tell you.

10. Are there any reputable shops that sell used/refurbished avionics?

Yes. East Coast is one I know of.

Is this a good way to go?

Lots of variables on that, including what the installation shop will charge for owner-provided avionics versus what they sell you as a dealer.

11. Has anyone ever used AOPA legal services in reviewing the purchase agreements? Were they timely?

Haven't used it.

12. Any suggestions for good places to look for insurance? I am a member of EAA and AOPA.

Find a good broker who knows the market and can obtain quotes from a variety of underwriters. I use Norris Hibbler and Aircraft & Marine in Vancouver WA, and recommend him highly.
http://www.aircraftandmarine.com/

13. Any ideas what it will cost to swap out a transponder to make it 2020 compliant?

If you want to use your transponder to become ADS-B-out compliant, about the only one now on the market which does that is the extended squitter Garmin GTX330ES. I'd figure $5K installed, and it needs a WAAS GPS like a Garmin 430W to go with it.

14. Lets say you have an aircraft that is reasonably well maintained, no corrosion, about 1,000 hours before engine overhaul. All A/D are complied with. Interior is aged. Needs a paint job, has no autopilot, needs a 430 WAAS upgrade, but meets all other requirements. What are recommendations your for the order of upgrade and relative cost.

What are your priorities? Utility or appearance?

15. What does it cost to cut a custom panel? Any ideas of reputable shops.

That will be in the noise level if you do all the avionics work you want (WAAS GPS, ADS-B-out Mode S transponder, 2-axis autopilot, etc). And again, for shops, how far are you willing to travel for the work?

16. Any suggestions on where, how to look for such an aircraft?

The internet is your friend. You could also look to find a reputable aircraft broker to help in your search. I believe their fees are usually in the 6% range.

 

[poadeleted20]

One last thing -- check AOPA's guide on the subject.
http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Aircraft-Ownership/Pilots-Guide-to-Co-Ownership

 

[Bill]

Nothing meets all your wants, but a 1960's-70's Cessna 182 or Piper Dakota will come close -- maybe 5-10 knots short of speed, at the top end of fuel consumption, and carbureted.

I was thinking more along the lines of a Cherokee Six or Lance, given the need for four "real" people.

 

[AggieMike88]

A short bit of advice about the co-owner agreement is to be thorough and include coverage of all of the situations that would cause an argument. Examples would be

departure of a co-owner, voluntarily or involuntarily
death of co-owner (and dealing with their estate)
simple and complex maintenance
permitted use of aircraft (including training ops)
handling low and high cost maintenance that occurs away from home
Upgrades when all want the new toy
Upgrades when only one guy wants the new toy
Damage to aircraft by member (who pays the deductible)
Buying a member out (voluntarilly wants out, or others need to kick him out)
Selling the plane
etc
etc

Essentially write the agreement to handle both the mundane and the strange, but like a good marriage pre-nup, it is something all peoples agreed to when they joined you and put their money down.

And have a good lawyer in your state that is familiar with situations like this and aviation law do a review.

 

[docmirror]

1. Depends on how many flight hours each wants. I would say no more than 4 people.

2. Bonanza S35.

3-272. Get quotes. When shopping for insurance, don't give an N number, just a type and make. Keep your partnership businesslike, not friendly.

 

[poadeleted20]

2. Bonanza S35.

285 HP engines burn a lot more than 10-12 gph. Yeah, I know, you can pull them back to like 50% power and see that sort of fuel burn in cruise, but that's like buying a Ferrari and saying you'll never turn more than 3000 RPM.

 

[LDJones]

My two cents having been in two-, three- and four-way partnerships: Two-way is optimal if the numbers work due to greatest drop in total cost to each owner with fewest conflicts. Three-way is next best for the same reason, and ease of decision making. Four-way and beyond doesn't decrease the costs enough to overcome the hassles of the additional more players.

Just one opinion...

 

[docmirror]

285 HP engines burn a lot more than 10-12 gph. Yeah, I know, you can pull them back to like 50% power and see that sort of fuel burn in cruise, but that's like buying a Ferrari and saying you'll never turn more than 3000 RPM.

Glad you mentioned that. It's kinda funny that the target speed of 140Kts in a Bonanza S35 will actually burn right at the OPs 10-12GPH number when running LOP. I would see about 10GPH or a bit less at 140Kts which is pretty good.

What it gives you is all the other factors that the OP is looking for, while not running the engine at > 60% power in cruise.

As I have a Ferrari, and drive it mostly conservatively on the highway, it is different than driving it at 5000RPM all the time. Just like the Bo, you can turn up the wick and go +175Kts if you want, or you can drive it conservatively and get way past MOH. No one said you could NEVER turn more than 50% power, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Or, you could do like everyone else and firewall a 182 for that speed and spend way more on gas.

I woulda mentioned a Mooney but he said 'have ample cabin room'....

Don't start on gear mx either, cause I been there, and done that.

 

[JHW]

Glad you mentioned that. It's kinda funny that the target speed of 140Kts in a Bonanza S35 will actually burn right at the OPs 10-12GPH number when running LOP. I would see about 10GPH or a bit less at 140Kts which is pretty good.

What it gives you is all the other factors that the OP is looking for, while not running the engine at > 60% power in cruise.

As I have a Ferrari, and drive it mostly conservatively on the highway, it is different than driving it at 5000RPM all the time. Just like the Bo, you can turn up the wick and go +175Kts if you want, or you can drive it conservatively and get way past MOH. No one said you could NEVER turn more than 50% power, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Or, you could do like everyone else and firewall a 182 for that speed and spend way more on gas.

I woulda mentioned a Mooney but he said 'have ample cabin room'....

Don't start on gear mx either, cause I been there, and done that.

I have a friend with a C55 baron with IO550's on each wing. He could very easily throttle it back to 165 kts like my 4-cyl travel air and burn the same fuel as I do. How often do you think he elects to fly as slow as me ?

 

[docmirror]

I have a friend with a C55 baron with IO550's on each wing. He could very easily throttle it back to 165 kts like my 4-cyl travel air and burn the same fuel as I do. How often do you think he elects to fly as slow as me ?

So, you quoted me --- and yet still failed to read what I wrote. That's well done sir, yes - absolutely well done:

Just like the Bo, you can turn up the wick and go +175Kts if you want

and/or:

No one said you could NEVER turn more than 50% power, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[JHW]

actually you seem to be the one with the reading comprehension issue. To use smaller words, my point is that it's purely an academic exercise to say that someone can go slower should they choose to. No one ever chooses to. And there is nothing wrong with that. I push on my throttles several times an hour just in case one of them might have crept back off the stop by a hair.

 

[DJTorrente]

My two cents having been in two-, three- and four-way partnerships: Two-way is optimal if the numbers work due to greatest drop in total cost to each owner with fewest conflicts. Three-way is next best for the same reason, and ease of decision making. Four-way and beyond doesn't decrease the costs enough to overcome the hassles of the additional more players.

Just one opinion...

I had considered that 4 person is the sweet spot, mostly because the sudden departure of a member doesn't have as great an impact on the costs to be borne by those who remain. If a 3-way partnership loses a member, the bills to the remaining partners increase by 50% until new blood is found. If a 4-way loses one, bills only increase by 1/3.

Applying this to a 5-way, losing one member increases costs only by 25%. But 5-way starts to look like more scheduling conflicts. Even so, it may be doable.

My hypothetical partnership scheduling would have priority access rotating on a weekly basis, with accommodation to yield, trade, etc. by phone or e-mail. During summertime the priority period could be longer (2 weeks) for one or more cycles through the membership, for example to accommodate a fly-to vacation.

 

[tmyers]

How do most handle the desired departure of one of the members? Are the remaining members expected to buy the departed one out or is it the responsibility of the one leaving the partnership to find a replacement. Also do the remaining partners have vtso authority over the newer member?

 

[docmirror]

actually you seem to be the one with the reading comprehension issue. To use smaller words, my point is that it's purely an academic exercise to say that someone can go slower should they choose to. No one ever chooses to. And there is nothing wrong with that. I push on my throttles several times an hour just in case one of them might have crept back off the stop by a hair.

No one? Hmmmm, that's a big order. Got proof? Cause, you never flew with me. I see that you have quoted a sample size of exactly two. Two does not make a good academic example when the population hovers in the hundreds of thousands of ops per year.

I stand by my selection. It meets all of the criteria of the OP except perhaps for those old Bo owners who tore the tail/wing off their plane back in the 70/80s, which has been resolved now. In fact, it's a remarkably accurate fit, although I guess I could go with the M35-V35A, the S35 is my personal fave.

And now, just for you: YMMV.

Viola!

 

[cdahl]

Let's swing this 180° and it may be advantageous to find a plane that has most of your wants and desires already on board. Just may find more bang for the buck.

But, if your looking for a recommendation.......a 520ci..... Debonair.....

 

[poadeleted20]

How do most handle the desired departure of one of the members? Are the remaining members expected to buy the departed one out or is it the responsibility of the one leaving the partnership to find a replacement. Also do the remaining partners have vtso authority over the newer member?

Those are issues which the potential partners must discuss and get written into the partnership agreement before signing -- and that includes getting a local attorney to make sure that agreement says what you want, doesn't say what you don't want, and is entirely valid in the state in which you are doing it.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Did I miss it or did anyone ask what his and his partners experience level is??

 

[poadeleted20]

Did I miss it or did anyone ask what his and his partners experience level is??

Nobody asked -- the OP said it in post #1.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Just saw some had little to no RG time

Maybe it's my tiny iphone screen, but I saw no mention of hours, ratings, currency etc.

 

[asgcpa]

Just saw some had little to no RG time

Maybe it's my tiny iphone screen, but I saw no mention of hours, ratings, currency etc.

I have PPL SEL with about 8 hours retract time. An additional 4 high performance. Also have Canadian PPL. I am currently an instrument student. My hours are about 170. My partner is an ATP CFII SEL MEI. He has about 4,000 hours and 2,500+ retract. He will be doing dual with me if we get a retract.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

I have PPL SEL with about 8 hours retract time. An additional 4 high performance. Also have Canadian PPL. I am currently an instrument student. My hours are about 170. My partner is an ATP CFII SEL MEI. He has about 4,000 hours and 2,500+ retract. He will be doing dual with me if we get a retract.

Gotcha,

I would just be sure to not get yourself into too much plane, too quick.

There are plenty of accidents you can find on this board of people new to flying in ALOT of plane, getting into alot of trouble.

I'd say if you get a couple hundred hours dual with your ATP friend it's all a mute point, just dont go fly with him for like 20hrs and go shoot off into the wild blue yonder solo or anything

 

[asgcpa]

Gotcha,

I would just be sure to not get yourself into too much plane, too quick.

There are plenty of accidents you can find on this board of people new to flying in ALOT of plane, getting into alot of trouble.

I'd say if you get a couple hundred hours dual with your ATP friend it's all a mute point, just dont go fly with him for like 20hrs and go shoot off into the wild blue yonder solo or anything

That is good advice, that I agree with 100%. We are also looking at fixed gear aircraft. None the less, I am probably one of the most conservative people (read chicken) around. I am very much aware of my personal minimums and do not want to become another statistic.

 

[bbchien]

Art, for an avionics retrofit, Greg Vail at what was once Bloomington avionics, now purchased lock stock and barrel by Flightstar in Champaign. Same great, not lowest dollar work. Been there last week.

The value leader is the Flying Machine company, http://www.pippen-york.com/ in Texas. However, someone would have to go, volunteer to stay overnight. If you divide by 5, or by 4 or even three, I'd just go to Flightstar.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

That is good advice, that I agree with 100%. We are also looking at fixed gear aircraft. None the less, I am probably one of the most conservative people (read chicken) around. I am very much aware of my personal minimums and do not want to become another statistic.

It's rare and good to hear that.

I think if you get some solid time from your ATP friend you'll be fine with a RG.

 

[JHW]

This "too much plane" business is nonsense. Its not like you're buying an MU2. Your list of wants has debonair written all over it, and plenty of people train from scratch in that sort of plane.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

This "too much plane" business is nonsense. Its not like you're buying an MU2. Your list of wants has debonair written all over it, and plenty of people train from scratch in that sort of plane.

Yea bud, I'm sure there are a few doctors who would beg to diffe...r, oh wait, they cant, because there DEAD.

For someone who cut their teeth on a 172 or PA28 going to a Bo, aint that far from a basic SE/ME "commercial" weekend pilot like you, going to a MU2.

It's smart (as most would agree) to progress at a comfortable pace.

 

[asgcpa]

The good thing I hear about Comanches are the group of owners who are supportive. Even CFIs that give proficiency training in the plane. I joined the international Comanche society yesterday and the resources amaze me.

 

[VA Aviator]

Hi all,



11. Has anyone ever used AOPA legal services in reviewing the purchase agreements? Were they timely?

I've not used them for a purchase agreement specifically, but I've used the document review service before and the way it works (at least the way it worked a few years ago, before they changed the name and everything) is you are given the name and number of a local aviation attorney that participates in the plan. You contact that attorney and work with them directly.

 

[35B33]

From the friendly comments here I can see why it took me so long to join .

Back in the 70s I was in a 3 way Mooney partnership with a CPA a Doc, and myself. We rotated priority weekly and you got to check availability when it wasn't your week. Worked well except the CPA was a bit of a pain. I do the billing so I don't have to wash the plane, change oil, etc. When it was his week and you called, it was always "I don't know, I may want to fly this evening". It is a marriage, your partners are more important than the plane.

Fast forward a few years and another partnership bought a Debonair in 1984 for leaseback to a flying club I instructed in. The club had a C-152 and PA28-180, and I wanted to go XC. Started out with a dozen interested in ownership but quickly dropped to three when it came time to purchase - one retired, an airline pilot, and myself. The airline pilot dropped out about six months later and our two person leaseback partnership continued for 15 years until my partner decided to stop flying in his early 80s. That was 14 years ago and I took the Deb out of leaseback at that time - still have it.

During the leaseback period we occasionally had new members join with ~100 hours TT and no retract time. The FC provided insurance for all the aircraft and would request, and receive, a waiver from the 150TT for the new member. We did have draconian club rules such as annual flight checks if you flew the Deb and a flight check required if it had been more than 90 days since you flew the Deb.

I had no problems with the low time pilots, they were flying enough to be dissatisfied with rental roulette, and were usually ready to be turned loose before the 10 hours time in type had been flown.

When The Deb had the 470 it always bugged me that it used more fuel (pre LOP) than the 182 I used to fly. Now, with the 520 and LOP, I go XC on 10-11 gph - going fast by skipping fuel stops. If you don't mind the expense, you can burn more fuel for higher speeds - nice to have the flexibility.

As we all probably know, hours do not equal skill, pilots have done damage in all types of aircraft.

Cal

 

[wabower]

If it hasn't been discussed, you should spend some time on developing a Joint Operating Agreement (JOA) between/among the co-owners.

When this subject arises most prospective think it's about engine reserves, calendar priority and who keeps air in the tires and sweeps out the hangar, but if properly prepared it will cover a large number of down-stream issues (divorce, disability, net worth depletion, disagreements, differences, etc) that you may find difficult to quantify and resolve.

JOA's aren't easy to prepare because they are by nature complex documents that force the participants to deal with tough issues that aren't much fun to hammer out and for which the initial reactions may be "who the hell knows, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it." Many owners simply throw up their hands or ignore the long-term with varying consequences.

Those who have been through an unplanned (and in some cases, unhappy) ending to a co-ownership can attest as to the angst that can accompany them. In my case, my co-owner best friend and his wife perished in the crash of our Cessna 340. Wrapping up all the details wasn't an antagonistic situation and we were adequately insured, but it was a hugely time-consuming event.

 

[HBCox@aol.com]

I would suggest not forming a partnership rather have one owner and up to three expense share partners. Make each partner pay 1/4 of payment, hangar, insurance, and a per hour maintenance reserve all payable to the owner. All are on a 30 day agreement; the owner can boot them or they can quit. Owner is responsible for maintenance, hangar, insurance, finding replacement partners, upgrades, scheduling etc. Each is responsible for leaving the airplane clean and refueled after each flight. Try to find partners that have over 500 hours with 250 minimum, Instrument rated preferred, who plan on flying 25 to 50 hours a year doing pattern proficiency flights and cross countries. Stay away from low time time builders and students.
Buy a Grumman Tiger. Relatively fast, cheaper insurance for non-complex airplane, 10 gph go fast, 8 gph slower. IFR equiped tracking autopilot, Garmin 430W, second NAV/COM radio with ILS. Look for low time engine >500 SMOH. MGW 2400#, EOW 1400#. Fuel to tabs (37 gal) 220# allow 4 180# passengers with 50# of baggage. 105 KTAS at 8 gph gives you 4 hours flying with 30 min VFR reserve. No luggage or drop a passenger and full tanks for 5 .7 with 30 min reserve.
I have just one such partner and that has worked well for both of us.

 

[wabower]

Strongly disagree. Too many ups and downs along the way, and too many potential oopsies to have one guy stuck with the cost and everybody else on a 30-day skate.

I would suggest not forming a partnership rather have one owner and up to three expense share partners. Make each partner pay 1/4 of payment, hangar, insurance, and a per hour maintenance reserve all payable to the owner. All are on a 30 day agreement; the owner can boot them or they can quit. Owner is responsible for maintenance, hangar, insurance, finding replacement partners, upgrades, scheduling etc. Each is responsible for leaving the airplane clean and refueled after each flight. Try to find partners that have over 500 hours with 250 minimum, Instrument rated preferred, who plan on flying 25 to 50 hours a year doing pattern proficiency flights and cross countries. Stay away from low time time builders and students.
Buy a Grumman Tiger. Relatively fast, cheaper insurance for non-complex airplane, 10 gph go fast, 8 gph slower. IFR equiped tracking autopilot, Garmin 430W, second NAV/COM radio with ILS. Look for low time engine >500 SMOH. MGW 2400#, EOW 1400#. Fuel to tabs (37 gal) 220# allow 4 180# passengers with 50# of baggage. 105 KTAS at 8 gph gives you 4 hours flying with 30 min VFR reserve. No luggage or drop a passenger and full tanks for 5 .7 with 30 min reserve.
I have just one such partner and that has worked well for both of us.

 

[Jim Logajan]

- use 10-12 gph at 75% power cruise

Suggest you set a desired still air MPG rather than GPH at some specific airspeed (such as 130 or 140 kts) as a decision metric.

 

[Mason]

How do most handle the desired departure of one of the members? Are the remaining members expected to buy the departed one out or is it the responsibility of the one leaving the partnership to find a replacement. Also do the remaining partners have vtso authority over the newer member?

When a job relocation forced me to sell my 1/4 share of the 182, a guy was waiting in the wings to buy me out and he was approved by a unanimous vote of the remaining 3.

 

[JHW]

When a job relocation forced me to sell my 1/4 share of the 182, a guy was waiting in the wings to buy me out and he was approved by a unanimous vote of the remaining 3.

At the other end of the spectrum, when one of the 3 partners in our PA32 got divorced and his ex-witch got his share, the other two of us parted out the plane to get out from under her. Make sure you have some sort of ironclad exit provisions in your partnership agreement so you don['t wind up like us.

 

[DJTorrente]

At the other end of the spectrum, when one of the 3 partners in our PA32 got divorced and his ex-witch got his share, the other two of us parted out the plane to get out from under her. Make sure you have some sort of ironclad exit provisions in your partnership agreement so you don['t wind up like us.

I can think of a couple of ways to deal with that.

Each co-owner must be FAA rated to at least Private Pilot privileges, or must surrender their interest as provided in [forced buyout] paragraphs...

or

Each co-owner must act as PIC of the aircraft in flight, subject to all other restrictions for the exercise of such privilege provided herein, at least once in any consecutive 60 day period, or must surrender their interest as provided in [forced buyout] paragraphs...

Of course, this presumes that some agreement is in place to govern the shared use to accommodate a clause like that.

 

[AggieMike88]

If it hasn't been discussed, you should spend some time on developing a Joint Operating Agreement (JOA) between/among the co-owners.

When this subject arises most prospective think it's about engine reserves, calendar priority and who keeps air in the tires and sweeps out the hangar, but if properly prepared it will cover a large number of down-stream issues (divorce, disability, net worth depletion, disagreements, differences, etc) that you may find difficult to quantify and resolve.

JOA's aren't easy to prepare because they are by nature complex documents that force the participants to deal with tough issues that aren't much fun to hammer out and for which the initial reactions may be "who the hell knows, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it." Many owners simply throw up their hands or ignore the long-term with varying consequences.

Good advice... Thanks Wayne.