Recently started flight training - need some advice

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rswitz

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rswitz
Hi,

I'm new here. I recently began my flight training, currently having about 10 hours TT. I plan on becoming a commercial pilot and flying for a living.

Here is my situation. I'm training at a small part 61 flight school, on track to obtain my privates, instrument, single engine commercial and multi-addon. One of the instructors here said he would get me a job to fly right seat in a charter airline he fly's for assuming I earn my multi-engine commercial add-on.

Being that I have this opportunity, should I even bother to get my CFI rating? If I can go right into a paid commercial charter job after training simply because of who I know, is there any point in getting a CFI?

I would think actually getting paid to fly right seat would be an ideal way of building hours and gaining experience than being a CFI, but I could be wrong. I know most people become a CFI to build hours, but is this a rare opportunity I have? Should I just end my training at the multi-engine commercial rating, and start with the charter company building hours?

My goal is to eventually get into the regionals, but my instructor tells me I will love being a charter pilot so much that I won't want to go to the regionals.

Sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure I make the right decisions regarding my training and career path.

Thanks!
 
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You have at very least 240 hours to go until you could obtain a commercial multi, and quite a few check rides.. A lot of things could change between then and now, if you do end up getting all your ratings and the right seat corporate job is available, take it. If that falls between the cracks, go for your CFI. Then build hours until another right seat job is available. I know a few UPS guys that don't have their CFI's.
 
Additional tickets open new doors. It cannot hurt to get a CFI(I) ticket. You can always use it on the side to spread your love of flying, and if the corporate flying does not pay the bills, it may help cover some of that as well. So except for the cost and time expenses why not get it?
 
You really need to research future employment prior to committing to aviation, especially if you are borrowing the $ for the flight hours.
 
Ok thanks. I realize I'm a long way off from getting my commercial multi, I'm just career minded and thinking ahead like anyone should.

So the general consensus is that if the charter job is available after I obtain my commercial multi, then take it without worrying about a CFI and if it is not, get the CFI?
 
And regarding research on future employment, I have done a ton of that. I've heard mixed things about job security and availability in the future (specifically 2013-2015 when I'll be looking)

I've heard American Eagle is hiring some 600 pilots through next year. I've also heard of the new FAA minimum hiring requirements.

I guess its looking like I'm going to have to have a written ATP cert and 1500 TT before I even get hired by a regional.

The regionals aside, I do have an in with this charter airline and basically a conditional offer of employment (the condition being I complete my commercial multi) and there will be other networking opportunities down the line with who I meet during my training.

I would like to think I am extremely luckily to have a chance to skip the CFI and work for a charter airline. How common is this? Do a lot of people get charter jobs with a fresh commercial multi?
 
I don't think you should get a CFI unless you want to teach. And it sounds like you don't.

I'm not interested in a career in aviation, but my observation of those that are has been that a charter gig is preferable to a CFI position (but some people do both at once). Of course that does depend a bit on the details. A charter job that only gets you a few hours a month isn't helping too much. I think jumping into a charter op with ~250 hours and a fresh commercial rating is rare.

Are they actually going to be paying you, or just letting you ride along for the experience? And can you actually log any time from it (if so, what)? Those are good questions to ask. But at 10 hours, the answers aren't relevant for quite a while.

P.S. Welcome to POA
 
I say if the carter opportunity is still there when you have the ratings take it. You can always earn your CFI while doing charter and still teach to even earn more hours once you are a carter pilot. My old instructor did that, but then it doesn't allow for a flexible schedule which is why I ended up having to switch.
 
Yes, the charter job is paid and I would log all hours as SIC time. (First officer)

I don't know how much it pays, but most likely very poorly like any first year pilot job. I don't know if I will want to stick with charter/corporate flying for my career, or use this possible charter job to jump into the regionals once my hours are built up.

I do like the idea of flying a corporate jet though. (This charter job I may get is to fly a multi-engine turboprop, not a jet)

So I don't know how else to get trained on jets other than to get hired by a regional, because I'm not paying for a type rating myself.
 
Sounds like you may have a great opportunity that few people get.

As for the jet, I know some places pay for their pilot's type ratings. You'd have to ask some people in the corporate/charter world to find out how common that is.
All else being equal, i'm sure they'd prefer someone who already has the appropriate type rating. But I'm told the corporate flying world has a lot to do with who you know, and i can think of a number of people who've jumped ahead of more qualified pilots based on personal connections.
 
rswitz said:
Ok thanks. I realize I'm a long way off from getting my commercial multi, I'm just career minded and thinking ahead like anyone should.

So the general consensus is that if the charter job is available after I obtain my commercial multi, then take it without worrying about a CFI and if it is not, get the CFI?
Click to expand...

Go for getting the job ASAP if you have assurance of its validity but, train largely from the right seat from commercial onward plus pass the written exam and then if you want, the CFI is virtually a given if you decide you want it.
 
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rswitz said:
Hi,

I'm new here. I recently began my flight training, currently having about 10 hours TT. I plan on becoming a commercial pilot and flying for a living.

Here is my situation. I'm training at a small part 61 flight school, on track to obtain my privates, instrument, single engine commercial and multi-addon. One of the instructors here said he would get me a job to fly right seat in a charter airline he fly's for assuming I earn my multi-engine commercial add-on.

Being that I have this opportunity, should I even bother to get my CFI rating? If I can go right into a paid commercial charter job after training simply because of who I know, is there any point in getting a CFI?

I would think actually getting paid to fly right seat would be an ideal way of building hours and gaining experience than being a CFI, but I could be wrong. I know most people become a CFI to build hours, but is this a rare opportunity I have? Should I just end my training at the multi-engine commercial rating, and start with the charter company building hours?

My goal is to eventually get into the regionals, but my instructor tells me I will love being a charter pilot so much that I won't want to go to the regionals.

Sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure I make the right decisions regarding my training and career path.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

My very first student, a young lady who went on to fly for United, was never an instructor...her first job was flying for a lumber company.

Bob Gardner
 
Worry about getting your PPL first then instrument rating. See how it goes after that.
 
You might also ask yourself, if he's had this conversation with you at 10 hours how many other people has he had this conversation with and where are they now?
 
rswitz said:
Yes, the charter job is paid and I would log all hours as SIC time. (First officer)

I don't know how much it pays, but most likely very poorly like any first year pilot job. I don't know if I will want to stick with charter/corporate flying for my career, or use this possible charter job to jump into the regionals once my hours are built up.

I do like the idea of flying a corporate jet though. (This charter job I may get is to fly a multi-engine turboprop, not a jet)

So I don't know how else to get trained on jets other than to get hired by a regional, because I'm not paying for a type rating myself.
Click to expand...

I think you could log any time you're actually flying the charter as PIC (sole manipulator) which would be even better than SIC time in your logbook.

I suggest that you do the IR, and multi commercial (skipping the single commercial and all CFI certs for now) and if the opportunity to fly SIC on turbine equipment is still there, go for that. You can always add the CFI/II and commercial single ratings later and it won't likely cost any more then. That way you'd have less debt and/or cash outflow prior to generating some income from flying. Also the charter experience will likely be far more valuable, both in terms of knowledge gained and resume stuffing.

OTOH, I would spend a little time getting checked out in the right seat of a few airplanes so you can learn how to deal with that sight picture etc. I'd also recommend taking the FOI ground school. It's relatively inexpensive, will put you a little further ahead should you decide to go for the CFI cert, and if nothing else you'll learn something about how people learn new stuff.
 
King Airs and most others of similar ilk are certified for single pilot, so there is no SIC time to be had because the position doesn't exist unless the SIC requirement is included in the 135's op specs. If it's certified as single pilot in the op spec, which is possible with an autopilot and other hoop-jumping, then he can't touch the controls or perform any crew duties because he's not authorized to do so.

If the op spec requires two crew-members, then he's in the same position as all the other newbs who are competing for the job.

IMO, counting on this gig is a classic case of counting unhatched chickens, and equally inadvisable.

gismo said:
I think you could log any time you're actually flying the charter as PIC (sole manipulator) which would be even better than SIC time in your logbook.

I suggest that you do the IR, and multi commercial (skipping the single commercial and all CFI certs for now) and if the opportunity to fly SIC on turbine equipment is still there, go for that. You can always add the CFI/II and commercial single ratings later and it won't likely cost any more then. That way you'd have less debt and/or cash outflow prior to generating some income from flying. Also the charter experience will likely be far more valuable, both in terms of knowledge gained and resume stuffing.

OTOH, I would spend a little time getting checked out in the right seat of a few airplanes so you can learn how to deal with that sight picture etc. I'd also recommend taking the FOI ground school. It's relatively inexpensive, will put you a little further ahead should you decide to go for the CFI cert, and if nothing else you'll learn something about how people learn new stuff.
Click to expand...
 
Rswitz, what you are being "offered" is not a job that is useable in the building of your career. Get the CFI.

Read wabower's post carefully. It is DEAD ON.
 
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