recent weird pattern incident

[henryinparadise]

Northern Calif. small airport
Im in and reported left crosswind for 13
I also reported 5 miles north earlier
and left upwind for 13
Twin cessna reports "entering left downwind"
with no prior calls.
I say " whats your location?" with some concern
"right below you" the response.
sure enough he was about 200' below me on a left downwind
and a very high speed. well over 180kts at about 700 agl.
now i'm on the downwind and he is way ahead of me
some 3 miles past the airstrip and (i swear to god) about 200' agl.
then when im at the numbers he is about 5 miles out.
i ask " are you landing?". or what?
snotty relpy "thats what i said"
normally id turn base and land but i did a 2 mile downwind
and watched him do the lowest approach ive ever seen in
45 yrs of flying -by a long shot.
weirdest landing ive ever seen.
some folks should not be flying.

 

[robin ardoin]

The 'perp' wasn't in a Golden Eagle, by any chance?

 

[ColinD]

Watsonville twin Cessna guy reincarnated?

 

[henryinparadise]

robin,
im not sure.
it was a solid white plane.

 

[henryinparadise]

colin,
no kidding!
one must be vigalent even in podunk rural airports.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Well, you know, those fast airplanes need a lot of room to maneuver, and especially when preparing to land on a field that’s marginally long enough for the excess speed and marginal skill level it’s important to fly a long flat approach and put the wheels between the REILS so that you only float 2000-2500 feet down the runway before touching down at 1.4 Vs.

 

[kyleb]

Well, you know, those fast airplanes need a lot of room to maneuver, and especially when preparing to land on a field that’s marginally long enough for the excess speed and marginal skill level it’s important to fly a long flat approach and put the wheels between the REILS so that you only float 2000-2500 feet down the runway before wheelbarrowing it down the runway at 1.4 Vs.

FTFY.

 

[MauleSkinner]

FTFY.

Wheelbarrowing would be off the side of the runway, not down the runway.

 

[whitepines]

I swear us Twin Cessna drivers aren't ALL lunatics, despite the growing evidence to the contrary! Just hope this guy doesn't destroy a beautiful airplane like so many others recently.

In all seriousness there are some valid concerns with the speed mismatch and tendency to get dumped onto CTAF late since we normally fly IFR in the flight levels, but a competent pilot will know how to slow down as much as practical and to slot in with the existing traffic. That includes extending downwinds, finals, etc. as needed to keep the slower traffic safe. Its a matter of personal pride to be able to handle the aircraft like that, and the sort of cowboy flying on display here is, frankly, infuriating....

On the flip side, I've had slow VFR single traffic ignore ATC instructions and almost hit the side of the fairly large twin I was flying...I just expect that sort of thing to be weeded out by the time someone has a multi rating.‍

 

[henryinparadise]

Its interesting to me the wide variety of patterns that I see.
High/ low. fast/slow. tight/wide.
Much is dictated by your plane but much is not.
Whitepines is right in that we need to announce early and often
and merge just like on a freeway. Be respectful. And slow down!!

45 yrs ago my first plane was a Cessna 150.
We flew into a rather busy uncontrolled airport and got on a
shuttle bus to Mendicino. A rather short fat man stood up
and demanded to know who was flying the 150 that was so slow.
I raised my hand. He said he was in the bonanza behind me and
dam near ran up my ass because I was so slow. He was yelling.
He was used to getting in peoples faces and bulling them.
What he got was a very strong rebuttal from me totally berating
him for being a ****ty pilot and maybe he shouldnt be flying.
Boy did he get angry but totally backed down and cowered
when the table was turned. Off the bus I was prepared to
hurt him if necessary, but he slinked away giving me the
stink eye. His wife was pulling him away and said something
like "remember what happened last time dear?"
One of my better days!

ps. im guilty as anyone for doing some stupid things.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I swear us Twin Cessna drivers aren't ALL lunatics, despite the growing evidence to the contrary! Just hope this guy doesn't destroy a beautiful airplane like so many others recently.

In all seriousness there are some valid concerns with the speed mismatch and tendency to get dumped onto CTAF late since we normally fly IFR in the flight levels, but a competent pilot will know how to slow down as much as practical and to slot in with the existing traffic. That includes extending downwinds, finals, etc. as needed to keep the slower traffic safe. Its a matter of personal pride to be able to handle the aircraft like that, and the sort of cowboy flying on display here is, frankly, infuriating....

On the flip side, I've had slow VFR single traffic ignore ATC instructions and almost hit the side of the fairly large twin I was flying...I just expect that sort of thing to be weeded out by the time someone has a multi rating.‍

And there is no rule preventing you from a CTAF announcement prior to ATC "releasing" you.

 

[k9medic]

And there is no rule preventing you from a CTAF announcement prior to ATC "releasing" you.

True but if they have held you up high and then dump you to CTAF, it's still going to be a mess.

I was going into Naples one day and had that happen. Tower scolded me for being up so high and I had to remind them that Tampa Approach kept me at that altitude until they handed me off.

 

[whitepines]

And there is no rule preventing you from a CTAF announcement prior to ATC "releasing" you.

True, but depending on who your final facility is it might be impractical. One of my normal flights has a busy Center as the final controller, and the chances of missing a call that way are very high. I do try to announce as soon as practical, though if the weather is marginal and I'm shooting the approach for real all I can really do is speed up / slow down / go around. 3nm visibility definitely looks different at 140kt than at 70kt

 

[flyingcheesehead]

and left upwind for 13

Meanwhile, the other guy is posting on another forum about some putz who announced a "left upwind". (Note: I am not calling you a putz...)

But, as with anything aviation, stay on your toes with your eyes and ears open. You're gonna find some chuckleheads who haven't quite managed to kill themselves yet here and there.

And there is no rule preventing you from a CTAF announcement prior to ATC "releasing" you.

No, but there are plenty of situations where it's very difficult to get a call in prior to being released. I'll at least try to monitor CTAF for 10 minutes or so, but it always has to take a back seat to ATC.