Reasonable Rates for Flying Clubs

loudbagel

loudbagel

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Hummingbird Saltalamacchia
Ill be getting into a Flying club soon, this is my first time so just looking to see what you guys would see as reasonable rates for my situation.

Cessna 172
Private Hangar at Class Charlie Field
Less than ten members

I havent talked anything official with the director of the club but I understand there will be a joining fee, then monthly dues, then hourly rent.

I would love to hear your suggestions!
 
How do they do the scheduling of the airplane? Can you take the plane for a trip (like Kimberlys) and just put a couple hours on it in a week or is there a minimum # of hours you need to fly when you take it.
 
From what I have seen, I would expect rates to be along the lines of

$1000-$1500 joining fee
$50-$100/mo
$90-$120/hr tach
Can book plane up to 7-10 days
no minimum or 1/hr minimum a day for overnights which is loosely enforced

Make sure to ask about the process of leaving the club and what happens to the joining fee (automatically refunded, have to find a replacement, etc)
 
Why don't you tell us what they charge and we can judge whether or not they are reasonable.

Questions I would ask... Do they do their own MX? Hobbs time or Tach time? When was their last special assessment and how much was it? What financial shape is the club in? How does scheduling of plane and instructor work? How does off-field fuel reimbursement work? How many new members did you have in 2011 (so you can judge how easy/hard it would be to sell your share on the open market)
 
My club rates...

Join - $500
Monthly - $75
Hourly - Warrior $100 182 ~$120
 
If it's an equity club, you can expect the join-up fee to include your proportionate cost of the asset. IOW, 10% of a $35,000 plane would be $3,500. If the plane is financed, you might be required to make a down payment and become obligated for a portion of the debt for your shared.

This discussion will be much more fruitful after your meeting with the club officials
 
To add to Wayne's comment, you need to know if this club membership represents a share of the actual ownership of the airplane, or if it's more like gym membership where you are buying the right to rent a plane.

For example, if there is a major unscheduled expense, will you be assessed to help pay for the repair?
 
The Club is not formed yet So im just trying to find out what you think was reasonable with what was presented.

The only other info I was given is there will be around 6 people in the club, It appears to be a non equity share
 
How much will you fly? If it's not more than a few hours a month, it might end up cheaper to pay full rate from an FBO. Many clubs don't pencil out unless you fly more than 8-10 hours a month.
 
I am in an equity club. The basic theory behind the rates is that all the fixed rate stuff is calculated monthly (tiedown, insurance, subscriptions for GPS database updates, annual inspections) then the monthly total is divided by the number of members. That's the fixed monthly charge. All the variable costs are calculated on the same basis, using an estimated monthly hours flown, to set the per-hour cost. This club has been in existence for over 25 years and has built up sufficient reserves so that any variances of actual from budgeted expenses is taken from (or added to) the reserves. Ultimately the higher/lower expenses are built into the next year's rate.

The one exception to this formula is fuel. Due to the rapid changes in fuel prices, we set a separate hourly rate for fuel each month, each plane. The club currently owns seven planes. 2 Archers, two Arrows, two Bonanzas and a Debonair.

-Skip
 
FlyBoyAndy said:
My club rates...

Join - $500
Monthly - $75
Hourly - Warrior $100 182 ~$120
Click to expand...

Damn....

Club not far from me does

Application - $100 (refunded if accepted)
Joining - $600
Monthly - $60
Deposit - $2500 (refunded after 3 years of membership)
C172 - $100/hour.

If not for that deposit, I would be all over it.
 
Long time lurker here...:)

The club that I'll be joining later this week has to C172N's:

Initiation fee: $500
Share fee: $500
Dues: $60/mo
C172: $90/hr (wet)

When you leave the club, you get your share fee back.

I'll be starting my flight training there. :goofy:
 
I was in RFC Dallas before I bought my Bo. It has what I regard as a pretty effective modl, is non-profit, no paid people ( but very dedicated folks!), and great meetings and programs (mostly safety-related).

See its policies and rates at the website: www.rfcdallas.com
 
numl0ck said:
Long time lurker here...:)

The club that I'll be joining later this week has to C172N's:

Initiation fee: $500
Share fee: $500
Dues: $60/mo
C172: $90/hr (wet)

When you leave the club, you get your share fee back.

I'll be starting my flight training there. :goofy:
Click to expand...

Welcome to POA..... Grab a chair and an adult beverage and enjoy the show...:yesnod::popcorn::popcorn:
 
Our club (blue Horizons) is a $1250 membership/joining fee + sales tax (90% refunded at time of leaving with not many questions asked)

Dues are $125/month

Cessna 172SP - $95/hr wet
Cherokee Six - $145/hr wet
1978 Piper Warrior - $82/hr wet

We do the maintenance we can on it. We have an A&P that likes to come out to our little airport and assist on some bigger things and will sign off on it. He does it free of charge....of course he's getting up there in age and so who knows how long we'll have that benefit.
 
I guess seeing real numbers will help the OP get a good idea:

Joining fee: $250
Bond Share: $1500, refundable at any time
Dues: $70/mo
172N: $80 wet, tach hour
172N: $92 wet, tach hour
172SP: $105 wet, tach hour
182RG: $120 wet, tach hour
 
jasc15 said:
I guess seeing real numbers will help the OP get a good idea:

Joining fee: $250
Bond Share: $1500, refundable at any time
Dues: $70/mo
172N: $80 wet, tach hour
172N: $92 wet, tach hour
172SP: $105 wet, tach hour
182RG: $120 wet, tach hour
Click to expand...

Where is that? Rates are good enough to drive from NYC.
 
Here's some more numbers just for comparison purposes, from my club http://www.tenhiflighers.com

Current share value:.......$3,510 * resellable on exit
First month's dues:...........$195
one-time membership fee:...$50
-------------------------------
total joining cost:...........$3,755

Monthly Dues payments ($195) are converted to flight credits which accrue without limit

1983 Dakota (PA28-236)...... $60/hr dry (tach)
1980 Bonanza (F33A)........... $88/hr dry (tach)
1988 Saratoga (PA32R-301).. $88/hr dry (tach)
 
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N801BH said:
Welcome to POA..... Grab a chair and an adult beverage and enjoy the show...:yesnod::popcorn::popcorn:
Click to expand...
Oh rats, Ben beat me to welcoming you! :mad2:

But he's right (for once), grab some :popcorn: and enjoy!

Welcome!
 
The club I belong to....$800 join fee...$35 mo. dues. They have 5 planes and all resevations done online. Cessna 150 65hr/wet, 2 c172's $89hr/wet, piper arrow $100/wet, piper archer 110/wet... really nice club !
 
I'm in a club-style FBO (http://www.aandmaviation.com).
$400 buyin ($300 refundable upon leaving)
$25 - $35/month dues (based on certificate level and signoffs)
Current rates (Chicago suburb. tach wet, except * is hobbes wet):
Beechcraft
B24R Sierra '75 $155
F33-A Bonanza '73 $190

Cessna
152 (2) '78 - '86 $108
172P (Skyhawk) '81 $128
172R (Skyhawk) '99 $143
172SP (Skyhawk) '01 $148
172SP (Skyhawk w/G1000) (2) '06 $153
182S (Skylane) '99 $184
310R (twin) '77 $350*
Piper
PA-28-181 "Archer III" '99 $169

Aeronca
Champ 7AC '46 $95

Helicopters
Robinson R44 Raven I Helicopter '07 $250*

Flight Training Device
Frasca 141 - $65*
 
FlyBoyAndy said:
My club rates...

Join - $500
Monthly - $75
Hourly - Warrior $100 182 ~$120
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wish the 182 was still $120! :rolleyes: As you probably know, it went up to $135 as of March 1. Still not too bad though. So far, I really like that airplane...
 
My club is an equity club of 40 members that own shares in 4 planes and a hangar. www.prescottflying.com

Currently selling memberships for $2500
Monthly dues of $105

Warrior - $83 wet tach
Archer - $84 wet tach
2 Arrows - $102 wet tach

You can't beat a club for aircraft availability and pride in ownership. I feel like the planes are all mine. If it's a nice day and I want to fly, there is always a plane available. Based on the FBO rates around me, I need to fly about 2.5 hours a month to break even on the dues. This normally isn't a problem and the freedom to schedule last minute or take a long trip more than makes up for it.
 
Thanks for all the great info!

The plane is being picked up right now and will be tucked in its hangar by Sunday. Ive written down every idea and when I meet the owner Ill go through the things I like and dislike about each one.

Ill report back on what we come up with.
 
I will tell you what I pay.

$450 initiation fee (no ownership interest)
$25/ month
$40/Hobbs hour dry C-172M (three of these), well maintained with Garmin 430W.
$55/Hobbs hour dry C-182Q, well maintained with Garmin 430W.

This is an old established club with lots of members and lots of money in reserve.

I will also tell you what I am offering as non-equity share in my Arrow II, well maintained but dated panel. No buy-in, no monthly, pay the additional on the insurance to add the new pilot (maybe $200 per year) and $70/tach hour dry in 10-hour blocks.

If you are not an owner then I do not think you should pay much more than my C-172M club fees adjusted if the airplane is significantly better, e.g. G1000. The only difference is maybe more to cover the share of fixed expenses but I do not see the buy-in or hourly as worth much more.
 
$500 join
$35/ month
$60/ hr wet
C172 180 hp Garmin 430W

Hard to justify ownership!
 
Banjo33 said:
$500 join
$35/ month
$60/ hr wet
C172 180 hp Garmin 430W

Hard to justify ownership!
Click to expand...


$60 wet?? That will not even cover fuel.

Never mind, I read it as a C-182. That is way cheap, though. Wet in my club on the 160 hp C-172 works out to around $75/hour.
 
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We're paying about $4.65 on SS at the field right now.

Oh, and burn about 10gph.
 
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Banjo33 said:
We're paying about $4.65 on SS at the field right now.

Oh, and burn about 10gph.
Click to expand...

And $60 includes the fuel?

I average little over 7 gph in the 160 hp 172 but I go easy on the gas.
 
The A&P is a member of the club. It's hangared at a small field (1 hangar, only 4 a/c based there), insurance deductible is HIGH but everyone's covered, more people paying dues (15 members or so) than are actively flying. Maybe 5 or so of us fly it on a monthly basis. The monthly dues are actually $95/month, but that gets you your first hour (wet) free, then it's $60/hr wet thereafter. You can bank hours quarterly, meaning you can not fly Jan and Feb, but fly 3 hours free in March. At the end of the quarter what's not used is lost. It's designed as an attempt to try and keep everyone at least reasonably current. I guess there's a little extra money being made there with people paying but not flying. There's no penalty for not paying your dues, you just become an inactive member until you get caught back up. There's two CFIs in the club, I'll be the third if I every get around to filing my MilComp paperwork, but I only know of one student that just finished his IR. I already fly about 40 hours a month for work, but try and log a 1.5 every month to keep sharp.
 
Banjo33 said:
The A&P is a member of the club. It's hangared at a small field (1 hangar, only 4 a/c based there), insurance deductible is HIGH but everyone's covered, more people paying dues (15 members or so) than are actively flying. Maybe 5 or so of us fly it on a monthly basis. The monthly dues are actually $95/month, but that gets you your first hour (wet) free, then it's $60/hr wet thereafter. You can bank hours quarterly, meaning you can not fly Jan and Feb, but fly 3 hours free in March. At the end of the quarter what's not used is lost. It's designed as an attempt to try and keep everyone at least reasonably current. I guess there's a little extra money being made there with people paying but not flying. There's no penalty for not paying your dues, you just become an inactive member until you get caught back up. There's two CFIs in the club, I'll be the third if I every get around to filing my MilComp paperwork, but I only know of one student that just finished his IR. I already fly about 40 hours a month for work, but try and log a 1.5 every month to keep sharp.
Click to expand...

Well, that is a sweet deal Enjoy it :yesnod:
 
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