Real Old DUI question ...third class medical.

[MedicineMan]

If I read right, AME can issue a class 3 if you only have ONE instance of DUI is over 5 years ago.
Also, if your offenses are before November 29th, 1990.

But IANAL so maybe that is not how they do it.

Yes, I have a 26 year old DUI.
NO (edit) DETAILED (edit) records available.

Anyone got any input as to how to report a DUI from October 1990 when no possibility of getting any (edot) DETAILED (edit) records due to file purging ???

 

[Sac Arrow]

Well you timed that one right. But at the risk of being chastised by the community, I think you may have answered your own question.

 

[Ravioli]

If it is that old:

Answer the boxes correctly (Yes)
In the description box describe the court outcome (diversion program, probation, etc)
While speaking to the Doctor indicate that there has been no recurrence.

And then every renewal you answer the appropriate questions Yes and in the box you put "Previously reported, no recurrence"

There's the free answer. For best results consult Dr Chein before filling anything out.

 

[mulligan]

Man, in 1990 you had to try to get a DUI. You could still get the old throw the keys and I better not see you on the road again tonight treatment. Those days are long gone. Glad you had no reoccurrence

 

[bbchien]

According to current guidelines for an AME, the ONLY one the AME can issue out of the office is a single one known to be less than 0.15, > than 2 years prior.

The five year line is when he has to also have the court records. If an AME issues one of these, the audit rate is 100%. So although I do that, I will have everything in hand that hey require:
Court records
DMV search
Personal statement that rings true if it doesn't trip the "abuse wire"
References from the "good citizen" portion of his life
Evidence of an educational course
CADC evaluation
*********
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/v/

For all first-time reports of arrest(s), conviction(s), and/or administrative action(s) the Examiner must do the following prior to issuing an airman medical certificate:

• Obtain a detailed history of the applicant's alcohol use, the circumstances surrounding all alcohol-related incidents (include those reported in 18v and any others that may have occurred)
• Obtain copies of all court records and arrest reports related to the event(s) if the incident(s) occurred within the 5 years prior to the exam. This includes copies of relevant military records if the incidents occurred while the applicant was a member of the U.S. armed forces (includes military court records, records of non-judicial punishment, and military substance abuse records)
• Document those findings in Item 60. (See Item 47)
• Forward the court records, arrest reports, and any military records to AMCD

Deferral Criteria:
The Examiner must defer certification for any of the following:

• Inability to obtain and review the court and arrest records within 14 days of the date of the exam
• For the alcohol- or drug-related driving incidents:
  • Any arrest, conviction, and/or administrative action for which the applicant registers a blood alcohol level 0.15 or higher
  • Any arrest, conviction, and/or administrative action for which the applicant refused blood alcohol testing
  • Any arrest, conviction, and/or administrative action within the preceding 2 years AND THERE HAS BEEN ANOTHER arrest, conviction and/or administrative action AT ANY OTHER TIME
  • Total of 3 arrest(s), conviction(s), and/or administrative action(s) within a lifetime
  • Total of 2 arrest(s), conviction(s), and/or administrative action(s) within the preceding 10 years

**********

Read into this what you will. Everyone does believe what they believe. The computerized records of the county clerk will have record of the conviction, and the adjudication, though probably not much more.

 

[MedicineMan]

According to current guidelines for an AME, the ONLY one the AME can issue out of the office is a single one known to be less than 0.15, > than 2 years prior.

The five year line is when he has to also have the court records. If an AME issues one of these, the audit rate is 100%. So although I do that, I will have everything in hand that hey require:
Court records
DMV search
Personal statement that rings true if it doesn't trip the "abuse wire"
References from the "good citizen" portion of his life
Evidence of an educational course
CADC evaluation
*********
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/v/

For all first-time reports of arrest(s), conviction(s), and/or administrative action(s) the Examiner must do the following prior to issuing an airman medical certificate:

• Obtain a detailed history of the applicant's alcohol use, the circumstances surrounding all alcohol-related incidents (include those reported in 18v and any others that may have occurred)
• Obtain copies of all court records and arrest reports related to the event(s) if the incident(s) occurred within the 5 years prior to the exam. This includes copies of relevant military records if the incidents occurred while the applicant was a member of the U.S. armed forces (includes military court records, records of non-judicial punishment, and military substance abuse records)
• Document those findings in Item 60. (See Item 47)
• Forward the court records, arrest reports, and any military records to AMCD

Deferral Criteria:
The Examiner must defer certification for any of the following:

• Inability to obtain and review the court and arrest records within 14 days of the date of the exam
• For the alcohol- or drug-related driving incidents:
  • Any arrest, conviction, and/or administrative action for which the applicant registers a blood alcohol level 0.15 or higher
  • Any arrest, conviction, and/or administrative action for which the applicant refused blood alcohol testing
  • Any arrest, conviction, and/or administrative action within the preceding 2 years AND THERE HAS BEEN ANOTHER arrest, conviction and/or administrative action AT ANY OTHER TIME
  • Total of 3 arrest(s), conviction(s), and/or administrative action(s) within a lifetime
  • Total of 2 arrest(s), conviction(s), and/or administrative action(s) within the preceding 10 years

**********

Read into this what you will. Everyone does believe what they believe. The computerized records of the county clerk will have record of the conviction, and the adjudication, though probably not much more.

I believe what you tell me I need to believe.
You are the Doc.
LOL (seriously)

That said,
With minimal court records available and the many years since, and being a non-drinker for over 20 years....
Given the facts I posted, what do you suggest I need to have on hand at physical ???

Having been a Medic with DEA narcotics approval to carry and administer, As well as a DOT regulated CDL driver, this part kinda caught me off guard.
Scrambling to get all the historical documentation.

 

[bbchien]

I believe what you tell me I need to believe.
You are the Doc.
LOL (seriously)

That said,
With minimal court records available and the many years since, and being a non-drinker for over 20 years....
Given the facts I posted, what do you suggest I need to have on hand at physical ???

Having been a Medic with DEA narcotics approval to carry and administer, As well as a DOT regulated CDL driver, this part kinda caught me off guard.
Scrambling to get all the historical documentation.

There will be, somewhere in the county file, usually in microfiche, an "officer's affidavit" or some such, and it should have the information in it, BAC if there was one. Go there, FIRST. If there was a BAC and below 0.15, it will save you a ton of heartache. Those won't be in the clerk's office, but will be in an offsite archive.

Or you can go directly to the Cert. Alcohol and Drug Counselor for his/her evaluation. Just make sure they list life long histories of five elements:

Tolerance
Withdrawal
Loss of control
Lifestyle centered on the use of...
Continued use in the face of known consequences....

and do it according to DSM 4 not DSM-5 (So-called NTSB format);

****
Obtain the certified DMV search from all state of licensure since that time and prove all are negative save the one offense.

Personal statement about the events at the time, your drinking habits as a young buck, the events that you recall from the night of the arrest, and your modification to current drinking habits, be QUANTITATIVE.

A good current letter from the longest person to know you professional in your workplace, hopefully a BOSS on letterhead, that you are trustworthy, can be left alone, don't cancel a the last moment (all of those are drug and alcohol behaviors) etc.

Evidence of an educational course. I am repeating my earlier post (9:18PM) as to what you need to bring with. Why? Because that is what is required. Ask again, it will not change. Ask a third time and it will not change. You DO want to succeed, yes? You haven't even begun and repetitive asking of the same question suggests you want to skive off the REQUIREMENTS already, before you have even started. If that is not so, I apologize, but the repetition is wearisome. Why would you go to a gunfight with a knife? Go without and it will just be a deferred exam (no certificate), and a demand letter 60 day later for everything on this list. It will be March 2017 before you get anywhere.

As to your assertion that you have been dry for 20 years: FAA's attitude is PROVE IT! So, despite the fact that it's likely true, reasserting it doesn't carry any water. Bring adequate evidence to your assertion. Instead, collect what they demand and take with you, "adequate evidence" that this is so.
*****
I do a ton of this stuff. Disbelief once is acceptable. But going to a gun fight with a knife is...so lame. Honest to g_d it's amazing that we survive to adulthood.

 

[MedicineMan]

Thanks for clarification.
No "skive", I just want to be clear and thorough. I hate surprises.
Yes, I made a bad decision as a "young buck", me alone, and now I have "hoops". Just need to know how many and how high to expect.

BTW - Chances of my being caught without gun in a gunfight is a low odds bet. I try to live my life on the always prepared side of things.

 

[flyingron]

Also, if your offenses are before November 29th, 1990.

The November 1990 date is from 61.15 and applies to disqualifying you from ***ALL*** (including pilot) certificates.
The date there doesn't say anything before Nov 1990 doesn't count against you for medical purposes. 18v and 18w on the 8500-8 are FOREVER. It says "Have you ever..." Most states don't have any expunction for DUI (not that it matters here).

 

[MedicineMan]

The November 1990 date is from 61.15 and applies to disqualifying you from ***ALL*** (including pilot) certificates.
The date there doesn't say anything before Nov 1990 doesn't count against you for medical purposes. 18v and 18w on the 8500-8 are FOREVER. It says "Have you ever..." Most states don't have any expunction for DUI (not that it matters here).

Yeah.
I figured that when the "hangar lawyer" told me.
No biggie though. I just gotta do some legwork and archive searching.
Like I said, was my mistake that got me here.

 

[bbchien]

Like I said, was my mistake that got me here.

And that last sentence is why you will succeed and do NOT have an issue here.