Real Man's Snow Blower

[Teller1900]

And our deicing "toy."

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Now that, my friend, is a snow blower!

 

[tonycondon]

bob - my manager, a national Guard helo pilot, was giving me a hard time last week when i couldnt fly cause the runway was covered in snow. He seemed to indicate that a Blackhawk is an EXCELLENT snow blower!

 

[Keith Lane]

Railroads have the REAL MAN'S snow BLOWER!
These literally "Blow" as it melts the fluffy white stuff.
How'd you like to live near the tracks as one of these comes by in the middle of an otherwise quiet night.

 

[gkainz]

These are the bad boys that dazzle me ...

credits to http://wasteam.railfan.net/snowplows.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_snowplow
for more, see http://www.northeast.railfan.net/plow2.html

 

[jwriteclub]

They still (very occasionally) out the steam powered rotary snow blowers that normally live outside the rail museum in Sacramento when the snow over the Sierras is particularly bad.

~ Christopher

 

[Teller1900]

Railroads have the REAL MAN'S snow BLOWER!
These literally "Blow" as it melts the fluffy white stuff.
How'd you like to live near the tracks as one of these comes by in the middle of an otherwise quiet night.

That first one looks like an over sized car wash dryer. How in the world does it manage to move forward while moving that much air??

 

[ScottM]

Railroads have the REAL MAN'S snow BLOWER!
These literally "Blow" as it melts the fluffy white stuff.
How'd you like to live near the tracks as one of these comes by in the middle of an otherwise quiet night.

I live 2 miles from the tracks and can hear them at night!!

 

[Keith Lane]

That first one looks like an over sized car wash dryer. How in the world does it manage to move forward while moving that much air??

Pure weight.
It's probably moved by a locomotive anyway.
Locomotives, or anything with driving wheels (on the railroad) for that matter all rely on weight to generate tractive effort (pull). A typical 4000-6000HP 16 Cylinder Loco weighs just over 400,000 lbs and generates about 25 to 30% of that weight in pull. Modern traction control software on the loco controls wheel slip so that the wheels are just-just barely at the point of starting to slip. Sometimes this is done by computing the driving axle's wheel diameter based on estimated wheel wear rates vs. recorded mileage and a known start diameter. The rpm of the wheel is then compared to radar data from a radar tranceiver pointed at the ground. Each drive axle is driven by it's own motor, and if the computed speed of any axle becomes greater than the radar speed, the software trims the current to that motor by tiny amounts. There are other ways, that's just the coolest, in my opinion. Also, as trivia, these 16 cylinder diesels idle at around 250 RPM and max out at a little less than 1000 RPM. Because the motors are electric, speed of the loco is (barring weight of the train and grade) limited only by the gear ratio of the ring and pinion for that particular setup. For a US freight locomotive thats usually around 75 mph. Amtrak is speed restricted to 79 mph except for th Northeast corridor where the Acela runs at >100mph.
More than you wanted to know, I know.

 

[AdamZ]

Believe it or not Teller our little wings field has one of those snow blowers. Its amazing what state transportation funds will get ya.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

bob - my manager, a national Guard helo pilot, was giving me a hard time last week when i couldnt fly cause the runway was covered in snow. He seemed to indicate that a Blackhawk is an EXCELLENT snow blower!

No doubt! Trouble is you can't see squat when you're blowin' all that snow around!

 

[Teller1900]

Pure weight.
It's probably moved by a locomotive anyway.
Locomotives, or anything with driving wheels (on the railroad) for that matter all rely on weight to generate tractive effort (pull). A typical 4000-6000HP 16 Cylinder Loco weighs just over 400,000 lbs and generates about 25 to 30% of that weight in pull. Modern traction control software on the loco controls wheel slip so that the wheels are just-just barely at the point of starting to slip. Sometimes this is done by computing the driving axle's wheel diameter based on estimated wheel wear rates vs. recorded mileage and a known start diameter. The rpm of the wheel is then compared to radar data from a radar tranceiver pointed at the ground. Each drive axle is driven by it's own motor, and if the computed speed of any axle becomes greater than the radar speed, the software trims the current to that motor by tiny amounts. There are other ways, that's just the coolest, in my opinion. Also, as trivia, these 16 cylinder diesels idle at around 250 RPM and max out at a little less than 1000 RPM. Because the motors are electric, speed of the loco is (barring weight of the train and grade) limited only by the gear ratio of the ring and pinion for that particular setup. For a US freight locomotive thats usually around 75 mph. Amtrak is speed restricted to 79 mph except for th Northeast corridor where the Acela runs at >100mph.
More than you wanted to know, I know.

Actually, that's all pretty damn cool to me, too. Why, though, are the wheels held at a point just before slipping? It's that, I'd assume, the maximum torque availability without wasting it to spinning? I never knew they used radar like that. Is it pointed forward at all, or is it basically measuring the known distance between ties; or something like that? How big are the batteries on diesel/electrics like this?

 

[Teller1900]

Believe it or not Teller our little wings field has one of those snow blowers. Its amazing what state transportation funds will get ya.

That blower (and the deicer) are both here at AUG, not exactly a big time airport either, but apparently the state spends a bit of money on it. Interestingly, they sand the runways here fairly heavily. Even in the summer, when we throw it into beta or reverse, you can see the sand getting kicked up all over the plane. I don't know if that's SOP for a lot of airports, but I've never seen this much sand used on a runway before.

 

[Teller1900]

No doubt! Trouble is you can't see squat when you're blowin' all that snow around!

We had a Bell 208 land on the unplowed runway after last week's storm, and then hover taxi (we think he was hover taxiing, it was actually just a ball of white sliding around the airport) over to the unplowed ramp...I don't see how you guys can operate in conditions like that, the visibility has to be horrible!

 

[skyflyer8]

bob - my manager, a national Guard helo pilot, was giving me a hard time last week when i couldnt fly cause the runway was covered in snow. He seemed to indicate that a Blackhawk is an EXCELLENT snow blower!

So are privately-owned R44 helicopters! One of our local R44 pilots cleared the runway for us last winter so no one would have to plow! That was fun to watch.

 

[astanley]

That blower (and the deicer) are both here at AUG, not exactly a big time airport either, but apparently the state spends a bit of money on it. Interestingly, they sand the runways here fairly heavily. Even in the summer, when we throw it into beta or reverse, you can see the sand getting kicked up all over the plane. I don't know if that's SOP for a lot of airports, but I've never seen this much sand used on a runway before.

Baldacci has to get in and out, you know . . .

The state has spent a lot of money on AUG over the years....

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Keith Lane]

Actually, that's all pretty damn cool to me, too. Why, though, are the wheels held at a point just before slipping? It's that, I'd assume, the maximum torque availability without wasting it to spinning? I never knew they used radar like that. Is it pointed forward at all, or is it basically measuring the known distance between ties; or something like that? How big are the batteries on diesel/electrics like this?

That's exactly why it's held at the point of slippage. The NHRA will not let drag racers use digital traction control at all. Who knows how fast they could go in a quarter mile if that rule was relaxed.

The radar is pointed dorn and forward at a known angle, and the "cosine factor" is taken into account to correct for the error.

The batteries are 6 volt and are HUGE. They are parallel-series connected to produce 74 volts, and really only used for starting and accessories just like a car would. The traction motors driving the loco are typically 600 volt DC and are powered by the generator which is driven by the diesel, hence, Diesel-electric Locomotive. Newer units are now using 600Volt 1000HP AC motors. They don't produce as much startup torque, but they don't burn up if you are wide open throttle on a steep grade and only able to make 2-3 MPH. DC motors can only run at high throttle settings (typically >800Amps) and speeds less than 8 MPH for 5 minutes or so before damage occurs.

 

[jwriteclub]

Keith, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that the Northern California rail link (between eg. Sacramento and San Francisco) is faster than 79. When I lived there there was some to do about the cose of re-doing the track if I remember correctly.

~ Christopher

 

[ScottM]

So are privately-owned R44 helicopters! One of our local R44 pilots cleared the runway for us last winter so no one would have to plow! That was fun to watch.

You have to get some video f that for youtube. But I'll bet that technique does not work so well o rthe heavy wet snows!