Ready for Ownership?

[spiderweb]

I spend about $15,000 a year renting. (Some of that is tax-deductible) But I just checked my waiting list. I have five people on it, and I do have five hours I can teach. At $70 per hour, that will be an additional $350 per week. I multiply that by 45 weeks (leaving out seven weeks for sickness or vacation), and that gives me $15,750 per year.

That means I could spend $30,000 a year on aviation. I could rent more, but what do you, oh experienced owners, say about buying?

I am thinking it makes the most sense to go into a four or five-person partnership on a six-seater. My requirements would be engine around 300-500 hours, 7+ interior and exterior, and glass panel (partial glass, like Aspen is fine). Turbo would be nice, ice protection required (though doesn't have to be FIKI), and I don't care about the airframe age.

Visions of C210s, PA-32s, and C206s are dancing in my head. . . .

 

[Geico266]

Friends don't let friends buy certified planes.

 

[wabower]

This crap really gets old.

Friends don't let friends buy certified planes.

 

[spiderweb]

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/PIPER-LANCE/1978-PIPER-LANCE/1254983.htm?

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...TOGA-SP/1981-PIPER-T-SARATOGA-SP/1250845.htm?

 

[Everskyward]

Friends don't let friends buy certified planes.

Ben's cello is not going to fit in an RV.

 

[Geico266]

Ben's cello is not going to fit in an RV.

Sure it will ..RV-10. I carried a full size 26" bike in there, pluses all my gear for OSH.

 

[Geico266]

This crap really gets old.

I thought you put me on ignore a few months ago.

Better do it again.

 

[txnightster]

This crap really gets old.

Agreed

 

[Geico266]

Guaranteed, no $14,000 annuals.

Why would anyone buy a 30 year old airplane?

 

[Tom-D]

An item to remember, if you are the owner of the aircraft and you provide the aircraft for you to teach in, it needs 100 hour inspections.

 

[spiderweb]

Ben's cello is not going to fit in an RV.

I should have provided that info!

 

[spiderweb]

Guaranteed, no $14,000 annuals.

Why would anyone buy a 30 year old airplane?

A good point. The equipment I want (glass, turbo, ice protection) is kind of forcing me to consider older airframes, unless I and my hypothetical partners can come up with $400k!

 

[spiderweb]

An item to remember, if you are the owner of the aircraft and you provide the aircraft for you to teach in, it needs 100 hour inspections.

Thanks! I don't have the CFI, but I am considering getting it someday. (I need the COMM, too)

 

[Tom-D]

Visions of C210s, PA-32s, and C206s are dancing in my head. . . .

Many high performance aircraft like the 210 have special support equipment that the freelanced A&P-IA won't have, thus you are stuck with the local FBO and high priced annuals and other maintenance.

 

[SCCutler]

Ben

Fly a Bonanza, an A36.

 

[spiderweb]

Ben

Fly a Bonanza, an A36.

Wow, I am a fool for leaving that out! Please add to my visions the A36!

I've only flown the Debonaire a few times, but that was enough for me to fall in love!

 

[spiderweb]

Many high performance aircraft like the 210 have special support equipment that the freelanced A&P-IA won't have, thus you are stuck with the local FBO and high priced annuals and other maintenance.

Right. Thanks for that!

 

[spiderweb]

But everyone, my question is this: you have the numbers and the scenario. Is this practical, or am I kidding myself?

 

[Tom-D]

But everyone, my question is this: you have the numbers and the scenario. Is this practical, or am I kidding myself?

If you are spending 15k per year on rentals you should own. It then becomes an issue of how much aircraft you should own.

 

[spiderweb]

If you are spending 15k per year on rentals you should own. It then becomes an issue of how much aircraft you should own.

Ah, that's getting at the core of my query. Even 15k? I'd always though it would take more.

 

[Tom-D]

Ah, that's getting at the core of my query. Even 15k? I'd always though it would take more.

Well,, 15k should cover the bottom of the market, but .....If you were to get hit with a 10k compliance with an AD what would you do?

 

[SCCutler]

He'd write a check, and be sad about it.

---

I doubt I am spending $15k/year on my Bo (opportunity cost of money excepted).

 

[Bob Noel]

I spend about $15,000 a year renting. (Some of that is tax-deductible) But I just checked my waiting list. I have five people on it, and I do have five hours I can teach. At $70 per hour, that will be an additional $350 per week. I multiply that by 45 weeks (leaving out seven weeks for sickness or vacation), and that gives me $15,750 per year.

That means I could spend $30,000 a year on aviation. I could rent more, but what do you, oh experienced owners, say about buying?

.

I think your math is missing one thing.... I think you forgot the taxes on the additional income.

And the extra 5 hours of teaching will eat into your flying time, maybe.

I bought my cherokee back in 1994 and sold it at the end of August. I loved owning my airplane and had a ton of fun with it, even the extensive owner-assisted overhaul back in 2002. I probably could have afforded a bigger, faster airplane, but was quite comfortable with the 140 financially. That took away any potential for stress. And it is sweet to have the plane available any time you want to fly.

fwiw - my recommendation is to continue renting unless (1) the rental aircraft aren't available or (2) really have the bug for owning and can afford to throw the money away.

 

[wabower]

Like what? Two jacks and a weighted tailstand? Buy a set and keep them in your hangar. I made it through 27 years using that set-up. The only other special tool needed was a 2X4 to help remove the original exhaust before trading for the Knisley.

Many high performance aircraft like the 210 have special support equipment that the freelanced A&P-IA won't have, thus you are stuck with the local FBO and high priced annuals and other maintenance.

 

[spiderweb]

He'd write a check, and be sad about it.

---

I doubt I am spending $15k/year on my Bo (opportunity cost of money excepted).

Even with cost of gas?

 

[spiderweb]

I think your math is missing one thing.... I think you forgot the taxes on the additional income.

And the extra 5 hours of teaching will eat into your flying time, maybe.

I bought my cherokee back in 1994 and sold it at the end of August. I loved owning my airplane and had a ton of fun with it, even the extensive owner-assisted overhaul back in 2002. I probably could have afforded a bigger, faster airplane, but was quite comfortable with the 140 financially. That took away any potential for stress. And it is sweet to have the plane available any time you want to fly.

fwiw - my recommendation is to continue renting unless (1) the rental aircraft aren't available or (2) really have the bug for owning and can afford to throw the money away.

That last paragraph is the concern.

The thing about owning would be that it would help for the business trips (concerts) I do, and that flying is tax-deductible.

But my naive notion is to go into that 4 person partnership in order to get a good 6-seater. Costs split among us. But I know scheduling can then become the problem.

 

[wabower]

With respect to any type of ownership, getting in is usually easier than getting out.

That last paragraph is the concern.

The thing about owning would be that it would help for the business trips (concerts) I do, and that flying is tax-deductible.

But my naive notion is to go into that 4 person partnership in order to get a good 6-seater. Costs split among us. But I know scheduling can then become the problem.

 

[Tom-D]

Like what? Two jacks and a weighted tailstand? Buy a set and keep them in your hangar. I made it through 27 years using that set-up. The only other special tool needed was a 2X4 to help remove the original exhaust before trading for the Knisley.

How did you comply with the MM when it required a hydraulic power supply?

The 210 jacks are not he cheap little tripod ones. Unless you are good with the Rube Goldburg 55 gallon drum extensions.

 

[wabower]

Didn't ever need hydraulic power other than on-board system. If we had needed a mule, I have no doubt we could have borrowed or rented one.

If you can afford a 210 that you intend to maintain yourself, you can afford a set of jacks for it. Trust me on this.

How did you comply with the MM when it required a hydraulic power supply?

The 210 jacks are not he cheap little tripod ones. Unless you are good with the Rube Goldburg 55 gallon drum extensions.

 

[Tom-D]

If you can afford a 210 that you intend to maintain yourself, you can afford a set of jacks for it. Trust me on this.

Perfect, My point, some of these aircraft require special stuff to maintain them.

that should be a consideration when buying.

 

[Sam D]

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/PIPER-LANCE/1978-PIPER-LANCE/1254983.htm?

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...TOGA-SP/1981-PIPER-T-SARATOGA-SP/1250845.htm?

I like how clean those panels are. I would love to do that to our Lance but its hard to justify as its just asthetics. However, if you buy one already done...

On another note, do you know the other folks on your field? There might be an opportunity to partner already there. If so, its best not to get too set on what plane you want. I used to think that a 210 was the plane for me, but then the Lance opportunity came up and I've been very happy.

 

[spiderweb]

I like how clean those panels are. I would love to do that to our Lance but its hard to justify as its just asthetics. However, if you buy one already done...

On another note, do you know the other folks on your field? There might be an opportunity to partner already there. If so, its best not to get too set on what plane you want. I used to think that a 210 was the plane for me, but then the Lance opportunity came up and I've been very happy.

I guess I'll snoop around!

 

[wabower]

We're talking a tank of gas.

Perfect, My point, some of these aircraft require special stuff to maintain them.

that should be a consideration when buying.

 

[SCCutler]

Even with cost of gas?

Yep. Of course, that is based upon only 100 hours, which is about what I fly per annum, and does not include a reserve for the engine.

Don't forget- you get more miles per gallon in a Bo.