read back the altimeter setting

TMetzinger

TMetzinger

Final Approach
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Tim
You all know the scenario, you check in with a new controller, and it goes something like this:

Me: XYZ center, Weedwacker 101, 14000.
ATC: Weedwacker 101, good afternoon, XYZ altimeter 29.52

NOW.... I normally read back the altimeter - 29.52, Weedwacker 101.
BUT... I hear other pilots that don't read it back, and I can't remember in my training whether I was taught it was required or not.

ATC's never chastised me for it, but I know they like us to keep comms to a minimum.

So, do you read back the altimeter when it's given to you as part of a check in (not as part of a clearance), or not? And why (or why not)?
 
Not required (although some controllers do make you read it back). I usually acknowledge that I received the setting, but I don't read the numbers back. Headings, clearances, and altitudes, absolutely read back.
 
so you'd say something like "Roger, Weedwacker 101"?

I guess I figure that there's not much I can say that's much shorter than the numbers and my call sign, except to say just the call sign, which really isn't an acknowledgement.

Definitely read back all headings, clearance changes, and altitudes, squawks, etc.
 
Yes. The coversation today went this way...

"Memphis Center, Commander 123AB, 12,000"
"November 123AB, Memphis altimeter 29.72"
"123AB"

If I think there might be any confusion about a direct clearance, I might add "direct wherever" to the initial callup.

I also can't count the number of times that I've checked into approach with the ATIS, and the controller still reads the local weather...
 
TMetzinger said:
You all know the scenario, you check in with a new controller, and it goes something like this:

Me: XYZ center, Weedwacker 101, 14000.
ATC: Weedwacker 101, good afternoon, XYZ altimeter 29.52

NOW.... I normally read back the altimeter - 29.52, Weedwacker 101.
BUT... I hear other pilots that don't read it back, and I can't remember in my training whether I was taught it was required or not.

ATC's never chastised me for it, but I know they like us to keep comms to a minimum.

So, do you read back the altimeter when it's given to you as part of a check in (not as part of a clearance), or not? And why (or why not)?
Click to expand...
Although not required, I do read back the altimeter when it's given to me as part of a check in. It's cheap confirmation to make sure the controller issued the right altimeter setting and that you heard it correctly. You don't want to hear "Weedwacker 101, altitude indicates 400 feet below your assigned altitude, I have a number for you to call...it's 516-..."

If you're going to bother saying "Roger Weedwacker 101" why not just say "29-52, Weedwaker 101?" If you want to make it even shorter, say "5-2, Weedwacker 101."

Like the others have said, it's not required, but it doesn't mean reading it back is useless. Most of the time, you'll hear it correctly, but it may be that one day when the radio is acting all funky and you dial in 29.59 into the altimeter instead of 29.99 and ya' don't read it back. That's when the readback shows its' value.

If it's busy on the frequency, I try and listen extra careful and don't end up reading it back unless I really couldn't hear it.
 
when i check in i always read back Alt. setting ,that why they know i have it and it's right
Dave G.
 
ejensen said:
Not unless it is a huge change and I think I got it wrong.
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Ditto. Most of the time the new altimeter setting changes my altitude less than 50 ft. Anything more than 100 ft definitely rates a confirmation call, not just a readback. If the error was subtle, chances are the controller won't catch it if you just read it back to him, and there's a strong tendency for them to hear what they expect.
 
lancefisher said:
Ditto. Most of the time the new altimeter setting changes my altitude less than 50 ft. Anything more than 100 ft definitely rates a confirmation call, not just a readback. If the error was subtle, chances are the controller won't catch it if you just read it back to him, and there's a strong tendency for them to hear what they expect.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my call would be 'confirm 28.95 234MP'
 
Yeah, I read it back, at least the last couple of digits. Controller caught an error just this Sunday when I read it back. Doesn't take (much) more time than "Roger".
 
"G'mornin' Potomac, Tiger two two romeo lima, level six thousand."
"Two two romeo lima, Potomac, Baltimore altimeter two niner eight five."
"Two niner eight five, 22RL"
 
Most of the time my acknowledgement consists of the last three of my tail number.

I'm always VFR..and I have yet to receive an altimeter setting that changed things much.
 
gprellwitz said:
Yeah, I read it back, at least the last couple of digits. Controller caught an error just this Sunday when I read it back. Doesn't take (much) more time than "Roger".
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smigaldi said:
Me too. Except when I have the Warrior up at the flight levels :D:D
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...and when you come down out of the flight levels, I'd strongly suggest reading back more than just the last two digits...I tried to impress this on a copilot several times, but I finally made a believer out of him when I attempted to descend through 500 feet AGL outbound on the approach...the last two digits were right, but the first two weren't so good. :(

Fly safe!

David
 
I always:

1) write it down
2) read it back as follows..

Me:Good morning Reading app Arrow 1451T 4000
App:51T Reading altimeter 29.94
Me:niner niner four 51T

I usually just repeat the last three numbers
 
i usually just use the last two, then my tail number. short and sweet.
 
MauleSkinner said:
...and when you come down out of the flight levels, I'd strongly suggest reading back more than just the last two digits...I tried to impress this on a copilot several times, but I finally made a believer out of him when I attempted to descend through 500 feet AGL outbound on the approach...the last two digits were right, but the first two weren't so good. :(

Fly safe!

David
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What??? You got me confused :dunno:

I said I read back the altimeter reading that the controller gave me,
what are you talking about?
 
as you come out of FL180, the controllers are *supposed* to give you the local altimeter settings, as you wont be at 29.92 anymore.
 
tonycondon said:
as you come out of FL180, the controllers are *supposed* to give you the local altimeter settings, as you wont be at 29.92 anymore.
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I got that. I was confused as to why he was admonishing me when I said nothing of the sort
 
I was on a student solo. I started up and called for taxi. The ground controller rattled off the taxi clearance and (as this was in the days before ATIS) the pertinent weather. I could not catch it as fast as he delivered it, so I said, "Say again altimeter."

He said, "Okay. 'Altimeter'." :D

-- Pilawt
 
MauleSkinner said:
I don't recall admonishing you...
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" ...and when you come down out of the flight levels, I'd strongly suggest reading back more than just the last two digits." right after a quote form me about reading back the altimeter sounds like an admonishment to me for not doing it right. The thing is I never said anything about reading back only the last two digits. I'll admit that is a particularly advanced confundance charm you have thrown my way :D:D:eek:
 
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Altimeter readbacks are required in USAF--good practice in civil flying.
 
smigaldi said:
" ...and when you come down out of the flight levels, I'd strongly suggest reading back more than just the last two digits." right after a quote form me about reading back the altimeter sounds like an admonishment to me for not doing it right. The thing is I never said anything about reading back only the last two digits. I'll admit that is a particularly advanced confundance charm you have thrown my way :D:D:eek:
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Note that gprellwitz's quote just above talks about reading back the last two...I was just combining the two quotes to illustrate one of my mistakes for the general edification...better than just bringing it in out of the blue. The potential for a 1000-ft mistake is better coming out of the flight levels than making a couple of hundredths change between center controllers, and you were the only one who mentioned flight levels, so I had to use your quote ;)

No offense intended. (none intended to gprellwitz either, btw)

Fly safe!

David
 
MauleSkinner said:
No offense intended. (none intended to gprellwitz either, btw)

Fly safe!

David
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I have pretty thick skin :rolleyes:

And, to be perfectly honest, I don't remember for sure that I only used the last two digits. Your point is a good one, and I may start ALWAYS using the full four.
 
I like to read-back the complete ALT setting... it's also my cue to check my DG against the compass, fuel status, oxygen levels & etc.
 
Reading back the alt numbers in full, along with tail # does two things

Ensures two way communication with the new controller and you.

And ensures both people are looking at the same altitude :)
 
Pilawt said:
I was on a student solo. I started up and called for taxi. The ground controller rattled off the taxi clearance and (as this was in the days before ATIS) the pertinent weather. I could not catch it as fast as he delivered it, so I said, "Say again altimeter."

He said, "Okay. 'Altimeter'." :D
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Center: "Cessna 12345, say altitude."
12345: "Altitude!"
Center: "Cessna 12345, say altitude."
12345: "Altitude!"
Center: "Cessna 12345, say 'cancelling IFR.'"
12345: "Um, level at 8,000, 12345."
 
I've been waiting for Marty Mayes to weigh in here, since I am in complete agreement with his contention in another long thread (maybe on AOPA) that many pilots parrot back too much meaningless information when a simple acknowledgement will do.

Here's what the AIM says regarding readbacks in 4-4-6:

ATC Clearance/Instruction Readback. Pilots of airborne aircraft should read back those parts of ATC clearances and instructions containing altitude assignments or vectors as a means of mutual verification. The readback of the "numbers" serves as a double check between pilots and controllers and reduces the kinds of communications errors that occur when a number is either "misheard" or is incorrect.
1. Include the aircraft identification in all readbacks and acknowledgments. This aids controllers in determining that the correct aircraft received the clearance or instruction. The requirement to include aircraft identification in all readbacks and acknowledgements becomes more important as frequency congestion increases and when aircraft with similar call signs are on the same frequency. ​
EXAMPLE-
"Climbing to Flight Level three three zero, United Twelve" or "November Five Charlie Tango, roger, cleared to land."​
2. Read back altitudes, altitude restrictions, and vectors in the same sequence as they are given in the clearance or instruction. ​
3. Altitudes contained in charted procedures, such as DPs, instrument approaches, etc., should not be read back unless they are specifically stated by the controller. ​
c. It is the responsibility of the pilot to accept or refuse the clearance issued.


I don't see anything there about altimeter settings. Yes, you can make the argument that you should read back EVERYTHING, because they might catch it if you make a mistake. But that's not what the AIM says, is it? Perhaps cutting down on noise on the frequency counts for something too. Sure, question if you think you misheard it, but if you heard the numbers clearly, why parrot it? For those who do NOT read back altimeter settings have you ever, even once, been asked to read it back?




Plus,as previously pointed out, the altimeter setting you're given should be pretty close to the setting you're already using, or the one on the ATIS or AWOS, or the one the controller's given to the ten other airplanes who check in. If it isn't close to what you expect, ask, or get on the ground fast, because you might be flying into a hurricane with precipitously falling pressure.



Yes, an alt. setting is only four words, but that's more than "with you," and "standing by," and almost as many as "any other traffic please advise."



Jon





​
 
4CornerFlyer said:
...Here's what the AIM says regarding readbacks in 4-4-6:




ATC Clearance/Instruction Readback. Pilots of airborne aircraft should read back those parts of ATC clearances and instructions containing altitude assignments or vectors as a means of mutual verification. The readback of the "numbers" serves as a double check between pilots and controllers and reduces the kinds of communications errors that occur when a number is either "misheard" or is incorrect.
...​





I don't see anything there about altimeter settings. Yes, you can make the argument that you should read back EVERYTHING, because they might catch it if you make a mistake. But that's not what the AIM says, is it? Perhaps cutting down on noise on the frequency counts for something too. Sure, question if you think you misheard it, but if you heard the numbers clearly, why parrot it? For those who do NOT read back altimeter settings have you ever, even once, been asked to read it back?​


Jon
Click to expand...


I've highlighted some of the words you quoted from the AIM. Last time I checked, altimeter settings were numbers and the AIM seems to say that reading back numbers is a good thing.​


Although the AIM has good stuff, it seems some pilots treat it like a bible of some sort--any deviation is heresy and the offender should be burned at the stake. I guess every "G-day" or extra word makes one an unprofessional rube in the eyes of the parrot police. Any commenters please advise...

​
 
Witmo said:
I've highlighted some of the words you quoted from the AIM. Last time I checked, altimeter settings were numbers and the AIM seems to say that reading back numbers is a good thing.​
Click to expand...
Tim, you're taking "numbers" out of context:

ATC Clearance/Instruction Readback.Pilots of airborne aircraft should read back those parts of ATC clearances and instructions containing altitude assignments or vectors as a means of mutual verification. The readback of the "numbers" serves as a double check between pilots and controllers and reduces the kinds of communications errors that occur when a number is either "misheard" or is incorrect.
Click to expand...

The word "numbers" in the underlined portion refers specifically to the numerical portion of altitudes and headings, it doesn't mean you should read back every number you hear.

Although the AIM has good stuff, it seems some pilots treat it like a bible of some sort--any deviation is heresy and the offender should be burned at the stake. I guess every "G-day" or extra word makes one an unprofessional rube in the eyes of the parrot police. Any commenters please advise...
Click to expand...

I tend to agree that Marty's position of never transmitting anything beyond the minimum required by the regs or AIM is a little extreme, but he has a valid point that way too many pilots spew out too much useless verbiage, either because of poor training ("that's what my CFI said to do") or because they are mimicing what they hear other pilots (mistakenly) broadcast. IOW I don't believe any pilots should be grounded because they occasionally utter something beyond standard phraseology, but a pilot who repeatedly gives long winded verbatium word for word replies ought to at least have his lips trimmed.
 
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lancefisher said:
Tim, you're taking "numbers" out of context:



The word "numbers" in the underlined portion refers specifically to the numerical portion of altitudes and headings, it doesn't mean you should read back every number you hear.



I tend to agree that Marty's position of never transmitting anything beyond the minimum required by the regs or AIM is a little extreme, but he has a valid point that way too many pilots spew out too much useless verbiage, either because of poor training ("that's what my CFI said to do") or because they are mimicing what they hear other pilots (mistakenly) broadcast. IOW I don't believe any pilots should be grounded because they occasionally utter something beyond standard phraseology, but a pilot who repeatedly gives long winded verbatium word for word replies ought to at least have his lips trimmed.
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Lance,

I see your point. I don't repeat every number ATC tells me (winds and runway for example) but I do repeat the altimeter setting if they specifically address it to me. It probably makes greater sense when leaving the flight levels but it's a habit ingrained from military training that I see no reason to change.
 
Me: Harrisburg Approach, Cessna 12345 Level 3,000.
HA: Cessna 12345 harrisburg, altimeter 29.95.
Me: 29.95, the winds out of the east at 5 to 10 MPH temperature is 81 degrees, I like sunsets, and long walks on the beach. I prefer blonds to brunettes, but will make exceptions for redheads. Occasionally dinner and a movie or just hanging out with close friends. Hey little Jimmy, that sure is a neat dog you got there. Do you like gladiator movies...ever seen a grown man naked.

HA: WHAT...........
 
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Ok - today, I realised what I usually do.

Nothing.

Handoff goes:

me: Cherokee 8816J, level 9500.
atc: Roger, altimeter 29.92.
me: ...

never heard any request to say anything else, and all was good on both sides.
 
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