re-writing history?

I test out all of my cutting edge flying machines at night. You should see the flying carpet I was zooming around on last night, I'd have taken a picture but it was dark.
 
Hmm ... I'm all for historical accuracy, but for ambiguous things, what is wrong with saying, "we don't know for sure." ? Seems we have a cultural aversion to integrity. Hey, first post!!
 
I think that the Connecticut Senate (as with the Federal and most other State Senates) has way too much time at their disposal and no real purpose. This is a fairly innocuous example of the result of that combination.
 
They should stick to more useful legislation, like requiring that pi = 22/7
 
Does this mean that North Carolina has to change their license plate logo "First in Flight"?
 
In 2007 they will be calling BigO the best in history. They write what ever they want.
 
If Gustave wanted the first flight claim then he should have had better documentation than a few witnesses who are now long dead. Reporters with cameras would have been a good idea.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I think that the Connecticut Senate (as with the Federal and most other State Senates) has way too much time at their disposal and no real purpose. This is a fairly innocuous example of the result of that combination.
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It must be tough to have all that political power and not be able to think of better ways to use it!:dunno: But, at least this waste of time and energy isn't a huge expense for the taxpayers, unless of course it ends up in court! :mad2::mad2:
And it's not just one state or another, it seems like all legislative bodies love to "change" things, they don't need a reason other than change for the sake of change or to satisfy a special interest group!:dunno:
In Georgia last session we had a huge debate on whether or not to make treatments for "Autism" coverage mandatory for insurance companies in Georgia. I, for one didn't know it wasn't covered and can't for the life of me figure out why it's not covered. :dunno: But, it ain't and it never made it to the committee, whoever they are? :nono:
 
Sac Arrow said:
I think that the Connecticut Senate (as with the Federal and most other State Senates) has way too much time at their disposal and no real purpose. This is a fairly innocuous example of the result of that combination.
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Since Gustav's flight occured in CT, I think the real goal is to make the area a state park, charge admission, and really ruin the experience!:yes:
 
VanDy said:
Conn Gov't expected to sign bill removing Wright Bros as first in powered flight.

What say ye?
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Well, if what Whitehead is claimed to have accomplished is considered "flight", then he wasn't the first either. Clement Ader was. The Wrights were the first to achieve powered, sustained, controlled, heavier-than-air flight. Whitehead, like Ader before him, did not equip his craft with a control system.
 
I always thought Connecticut was a dump. Someone should tell their government that history isn't legislated.
 
WBI Flyer said:
Hmm ... I'm all for historical accuracy, but for ambiguous things, what is wrong with saying, "we don't know for sure." ? Seems we have a cultural aversion to integrity. Hey, first post!!
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But we do know for sure that Whitehead did not achieve controlled flight because he did not have a control system.
 
John221us said:
Does this mean that North Carolina has to change their license plate logo "First in Flight"?
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It has never been all that accurate. Two guys from Ohio made their first straight-line powered flight there in order to protect their secrecy. But it's questionable whether you can call it "controlled" flight when you can't turn. The first controlled turn and the first takeoff in calm wind was in Dayton.

There are several legitimate claims to having invented the airplane, all at roughly the same time. The Wrights won by a court decision. It's not universally accepted, largely because there is a lot of arbitrariness into defining what a "flight" is. You can only make the Wrights first if you add quite a lot of qualifiers.

Not to minimize their contributions -- these guys were clearly first-caliber engineers. But things aren't always as cut and dried as we learned in elementary school.
 
MAKG1 said:
It has never been all that accurate. Two guys from Ohio made their first straight-line powered flight there in order to protect their secrecy. But it's questionable whether you can call it "controlled" flight when you can't turn. The first controlled turn and the first takeoff in calm wind was in Dayton.

There are several legitimate claims to having invented the airplane, all at roughly the same time. The Wrights won by a court decision. It's not universally accepted, largely because there is a lot of arbitrariness into defining what a "flight" is. You can only make the Wrights first if you add quite a lot of qualifiers.

Not to minimize their contributions -- these guys were clearly first-caliber engineers. But things aren't always as cut and dried as we learned in elementary school.
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I have always thought that the slogan should be "first flown in" not first in flight
 
Actually both Ohio and North Carolina claim home to the Wright Brothers and the "First in Flight" slogan.
 
roncachamp said:
But we do know for sure that Whitehead did not achieve controlled flight because he did not have a control system.
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According to this article, he did... the airplane also, apparently, was rigged to allow power to go to either the wheels or the propeller.

http://www.gustave-whitehead.com/

The Wright flyer was certainly a better design, and became extremely practical with only a few minor improvements. The Wrights also founded a rather successful aerospace company, whereas Whitehead got sidetracked into wacky helicopter designs, wasting his limited resources on dead ends and missing his chance to do more with airplanes.
But Whitehead sort of got burned by politics, especially as regards the Smithsonian.
It's a lot like the story of Tesla and his contemporaries like Marconi and Edison. He was smarter than all of them put together, and worked just as hard, but he didn't have as firm a grip on reality.
 
If he was two years earlier, why wasn't he making headlines with refinements in the following two years?? :dunno:

Something smells fishy.
 
In science, a discovery must be made know to a larger audience for it to qualify as a discovery.

An inventor may have made a first flight, but unless the results became generally known, then it doesn't count as being "first" in the scientific sense.
 
rottydaddy said:
According to this article, he did... the airplane also, apparently, was rigged to allow power to go to either the wheels or the propeller.
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The Bridgeport Herald of 18 August 1901 reported in the description of Whitehead's flight that trees blocked the way after the flight was in progress, and quoted Whitehead as saying, "I knew that I could not clear them by rising higher, and also that I had no means of steering around them by using the machinery." The article said Whitehead quickly thought of a solution to steer around the trees: "He simply shifted his weight more to one side than the other. This careened the ship to one side. She turned her nose away from the clump of sprouts when within fifty yards of them and took her course around them as prettily as a yacht on the sea avoids a bar. The ability to control the air ship in this manner appeared to give Whitehead confidence, for he was seen to take time to look at the landscape about him. He looked back and waved his hand exclaiming, 'I've got it at last'."
 
It's not science. It's engineering. BIG difference.

There was a lot of secrecy going on at the time -- including with the Wrights -- in order to protect patents. Even the Wright's work was not well known until several years later, and it's only as well known as it is because they attempted to enforce very broad patents that the invention of the aileron essentially did away with.
 
roncachamp said:
The ability to control the air ship in this manner appeared to give Whitehead confidence, for he was seen to take time to look at the landscape about him. He looked back and waved his hand exclaiming, 'I've got it at last'."
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And someone heard him say this over the motor?:lol: Speaking of which where did he get his motor and how much power did it have?
 
MAKG1 said:
It has never been all that accurate. Two guys from Ohio made their first straight-line powered flight there in order to protect their secrecy. But it's questionable whether you can call it "controlled" flight when you can't turn. The first controlled turn and the first takeoff in calm wind was in Dayton.

There are several legitimate claims to having invented the airplane, all at roughly the same time. The Wrights won by a court decision. It's not universally accepted, largely because there is a lot of arbitrariness into defining what a "flight" is. You can only make the Wrights first if you add quite a lot of qualifiers.

Not to minimize their contributions -- these guys were clearly first-caliber engineers. But things aren't always as cut and dried as we learned in elementary school.
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If you read their papers, you will find the Wrights picked Kitty Hawk because of the average days with wind, which they needed in their initial glider experiments, not for secrecy.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
If you read their papers, you will find the Wrights picked Kitty Hawk because of the average days with wind, which they needed in their initial glider experiments, not for secrecy.
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Plus the sand dunes made excellent glider launching spots. Still do.
 
MAKG1 said:
It's not science. It's engineering. BIG difference.

There was a lot of secrecy going on at the time -- including with the Wrights -- in order to protect patents. Even the Wright's work was not well known until several years later, and it's only as well known as it is because they attempted to enforce very broad patents that the invention of the aileron essentially did away with.
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Yeah that. Let's not forget that

In 1906 the Wrights received a patent for their method of flight control which they fiercely defended for years afterward, suing foreign and domestic aviators and companies, especially another U.S. aviation pioneer, Glenn Curtiss, in an attempt to collect licensing fees. Their legal threats suppressed development of the U.S. aviation industry for several years. Letters that Wilbur Wright wrote to Octave Chanute in January 1910 offer a glimpse into the Wrights' feeling about their proprietary work: "It is not disputed that every person who is using this system today owes it to us and to us alone. The French aviators freely admit it."[4] In another letter Wilbur said: "It is our view that morally the world owes its almost universal use of our system of lateral control entirely to us. It is also our opinion that legally it owes it to us."[5]
The patent war stalled the development of the American aviation industry.
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from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers_patent_war

Who-did-what holly wars in the history of really everything are more common than just the Wrights-Whitehead

Any non-Russian speakers ever heard of this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Nesterov

Carroll Gray, a historian who has thoroughly investigated the record, believes that by 1912 Lincoln Beachey "was, almost certainly, the first aviator to recover from a spin, do the falling leaf, a hammerhead stall, fly inverted, and do an outside loop as well as most other now standard aerobatic maneuvers."
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So-o-o-o, YM will V
 
John221us said:
Does this mean that North Carolina has to change their license plate logo "First in Flight"?
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No, I think North Carolina and Ohio will both change their history books to eliminate references to Connecticut. Henceforth it will also be erased from the map or referred to as TABRIANY (That area between Rhode Island and New York).

I've made my opinions on Whitehead known before. He might have gotten airborne once. But it was an accident at best IF it happened. He could not repeat it, which means he did not have a controlled flight, nor did he have a solid understanding of flight. Notable in the chain of developments, but not flying.
 
I have read a number of threads concerning this, and I keep on coming up with two questions: Other than for lively debates who cares and why does it really matter?

As often is the case the myth is often quite different from reality.
 
If ct was smart they could have 'first in helicopter flight' and 'birthplace of the helicopter' on their plates. But no they have to grasp at slim chance of first powered airplane. Yawn.
 
roncachamp said:
Well, if what Whitehead is claimed to have accomplished is considered "flight", then he wasn't the first either. Clement Ader was. .
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bflynn said:
He might have gotten airborne once. But it was an accident at best IF it happened. He could not repeat it,
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P.Garrison of FLYING makes similar arguments in his article devoted to the subject. Whitehead took his cloth-wing aircraft for a flight on a dark rainy day but he never managed to fly on a dry brighter day more suitable for photography? And even witnesses can't really agree if he flew or not. On top of that the modern recreations of Whitehead's craft could not get airborne. I think with preponderance of evidence he did not fly, at least not in the way to make it into history books.
 
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I will note for the record if the buffoons in the state house are taking time for this, it means they have less time to do real harm. ;)

Cheers
 
olasek said:
P.Garrison of FLYING makes similar arguments in his article devoted to the subject. Whitehead took his cloth-wing aircraft for a flight on a dark rainy day but he never managed to fly on a dry brighter day more suitable for photography? And even witnesses can't really agree if he flew or not. On top of that the modern recreations of Whitehead's craft could not get airborne. I think with preponderance of evidence he did not fly, at least not in the way to make it into history books.
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That's because there aren't any days in that CT area that are clear and dry and bright. :D
 
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