[rant, but not a great one]Engine auto shutoff disablement[/not great rant]

Lucky guys. My 77 Mercedes wont shut off when you turn the key 50% of the time.
 
avongil said:
Lucky guys. My 77 Mercedes wont shut off when you turn the key 50% of the time.
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I had a 1979 MBZ the same way....

And, sometimes, it would start when you turned the key...... until you jiggled the steering wheel and moved the shifter to neutral. And then get to a destination and pull the key out while running.....

Fun times...
 
Zeldman said:
This is nothing new. I had a '47 Chevy 5 window PU that would always auto shut off at a stop light. Sometimes it would even auto shut off while driving down the road..!! :lol::lol::lol:
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Yup! I had a brand new'72 Chevy Vega GT and it would stall out at the red light w/ the AC on. What a POS car! Kept it 9 months and got rid of it.
 
JoseCuervo said:
But they don't screw up as often as the "barstool geniuses" drinking Keystone Light and telling stories about their uncle's buddy's nephew's teacher's barber's mom who has a faulty Jeep Grand Cherokee....
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Whew! :eek2:
Thought for a sec he was gonna make fun of my PBR! :thumbsup:
 
mscard88 said:
Yup! I had a brand new'72 Chevy Vega GT and it would stall out at the red light w/ the AC on. What a POS car! Kept it 9 months and got rid of it.
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I had a '74 Vega. One of my all time favorites. Mostly because of the wildly built 350 CID I put in it with a T-400 transmission. On about the fourth differential explosion I finally found an old Franklin quick change rear end that fit with some slight (hammer) modifications to the body. I wish I had pictures but back then I was young and dumb and thought the good times would go on forever.
 
Zeldman said:
I had a '74 Vega. One of my all time favorites. Mostly because of the wildly built 350 CID I put in it with a T-400 transmission. On about the fourth differential explosion I finally found an old Franklin quick change rear end that fit with some slight (hammer) modifications to the body. I wish I had pictures but back then I was young and dumb and thought the good times would go on forever.
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Wish I had a 350 in mine. That aluminum block 4 cyl sucked.
 
mscard88 said:
Wish I had a 350 in mine. That aluminum block 4 cyl sucked.
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Yeah, poor attempt at aluminum/silicon bores that made for massive oil consumption. That explains a lot of good donor cars for V-8 conversions! :)
 
My Honda CR-Z had the auto shut-off feature. I liked it.
It saved me some gas and totally freaked out first time passengers.
If a car can't be blazing fast, it should be entertaining in some other fashion.

OK, I confess. I am a horrible excuse for a human being.
I stopped in the middle of a railway crossing and watched a passenger completely lose it when the engine shut off.
I'm laughing right now, just thinking about it.

I'm getting coal in my stocking (again) this year, aren't I. sigh...
 
I've never even HEARD of the skip-shift thing. That would drive me nuts, and would have to go. I prefer to drive with both feet for the very reason that I like the control (and reliability), and this seems to defeat that option.
 
On Ford and Toyota hybrids, there is no starter or alternator. There is a motor generator that both starts the engine and is used to slow the car while charging the drive battery They've proven to be quite reliable.

After you get used to it, it seems preposterous for the engine to be on while decelerating or while stopped. if you drive one for a while, you will realize what a small percentage of the time that your engine is doing something useful while driving in town.
 
Shepherd said:
OK, I confess. I am a horrible excuse for a human being.
I stopped in the middle of a railway crossing and watched a passenger completely lose it when the engine shut off.
I'm laughing right now, just thinking about it.

I'm getting coal in my stocking (again) this year, aren't I. sigh...
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OMG I am totally getting one now just for that reason..!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:
 
cowman said:
Cold starts are bad because the oil is all drained back into the pan. I seriously doubt all the oil has drained back in the < 1min typical stop and it probably isn't going to make a bit of difference engine longevity wise.... I'm sure Ford studied this. I'd be more worried about the life of the starter motors....
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The rental I had, didn't appear to use the starter motor to restart... The cylinders stopped with a fuel charge in them, by appearing to cut off the spark. When starting again, the brain appeared to fire off the appropriate cylinder that was just past TDC to restart it...

I could be mistaken, but there wasn't any big current draw or click of starter solenoid or sound of cranking when the idle restart fired off..
 
I was in a BMW uber car that seemed to have autostart and it sure sound like the car cranked each time it restarted.

I have no idea how the Volt engine starts. It just quietly starts purring. The only unnerving thing is driving a car where the engine rpms are often decoupled from the car speed.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Every mechanic may know that. But, no one will be able to show you one bit of data that says that stop/start reduces the life of your engine by even one mile.
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But you're saving the Earth from us vermin humans. So you got that going for you.
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
I demand the return of:

-standard transmissions
-no gear/brake/ig key interlock
-door locks you can get a coathanger around!!
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Highbeam switches on the floor so you stop getting your foot stuck in the steering wheel :)

A while back I got a call from a friend. He was at the gas station down the street from my house and had locked his keys in the car and wanted me to bring him a coat hanger. I was fishing one out of the hall closet when a devious idea stuck me. I showed up at the gas station a few minutes later and handed him a plastic coat hanger. He just stood there looking at it for a minute before I gave him the wire one.
 
It's funny when people are worried about stop/start wearing out the engine because of "cold start" issues and "oil draining out".
It's a very clever system. It only works when the engine temps (oil, IAT, coolant, head, catalytic converter) are within a certain range. It measures the rate of cooling down and it restarts if required (for example, stop/start never allows the cat heating cycle to be repeated. If cat temps cool down too much, it restarts before needing to run the cat heating cycle again). It checks the required electrical/AirCon load and restarts if required. On turbocharged cars if the modeled turbocharger temperature is above a certain value it let's it cool down before shutting off and so on. It even decides how quickly it has to restart based on the speed you lift your foot off the brake/depress the clutch in stick shift cars.
The difference in starter wear is so small it can't even be measured within any reasonable tolerance. Starters aren't usually replaced because of mechanical failures anyways.
So. Enjoy your start/stop, it really won't hurt a thing. And it might save a few polar bears.
 
mtuomi said:
It's funny when people are worried about stop/start wearing out the engine because of "cold start" issues and "oil draining out".
It's a very clever system. It only works when the engine temps (oil, IAT, coolant, head, catalytic converter) are within a certain range. It measures the rate of cooling down and it restarts if required (for example, stop/start never allows the cat heating cycle to be repeated. If cat temps cool down too much, it restarts before needing to run the cat heating cycle again). It checks the required electrical/AirCon load and restarts if required. On turbocharged cars if the modeled turbocharger temperature is above a certain value it let's it cool down before shutting off and so on. It even decides how quickly it has to restart based on the speed you lift your foot off the brake/depress the clutch in stick shift cars.
The difference in starter wear is so small it can't even be measured within any reasonable tolerance. Starters aren't usually replaced because of mechanical failures anyways.
So. Enjoy your start/stop, it really won't hurt a thing. And it might save a few polar bears.
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Also, as to the "oil draining back into the block" issue, that pretty much doesn't happen on any modern vehicle because almost every oil filter used has an anti-drain valve (read: rubber gravity flap/valve) that prevents oil from returning to the pan on restarts. Lifters/etc don't lose their charge of oil for quite a long time after shutdown, and modern oils provide more than enough lubrication to prevent any cold start/dry start problems. It simply just isn't an issue short of not starting your car for months at a time.
 
My Mazda nearly killed me when I first bought it - very steep, narrow, rural road, intersecting with a fairly well traveled major road; view to the left obstructed by a McMansion privacy fence. Had to roll forward to peek; big truck coming, press the clutch in, to roll back - and nothing. It "helps" on hills by waiting about an hour before the clutch disengages and lets you roll back; O.K. not an hour, but long enough to require a panic shift into reverse.

Running lights were on all the time, too - but that was easy to fix. There was a cartoon on the web, can't find it now - a baloon/beach ball bounces out in front of a car with "assitive-braking", which is being tailgated at high speed by a dump truck.

Keyless ignition is kinda dumb, almost pointless, as well. Like a rocket sled back to a 1930s DeSoto.
 
All these "auto" features bring more problems than benefit. I don't want my car to lock me in, I don't care for some dumba** Chevy "engineer" to block my gears (that's why I drive a manual in the first place), I hate it when auto-headlights drain a battery, when my car brakes for me, when I cannot get out of the way of danger quickly because TCS is auto-braking again etc.
That's why I am happy I have a car from 1991 which does not have any of the features designed for dumb people. I know how to drive my car and I know how to operate all its features without interference from "engineers".
If my engine quit every time I stopped, I'd want to bit**-slap the idiot who programmed the bug into the ECM.
End of rant. Now I'll go drive my awesome old convertible in the awesome sunlight and 75F. :) See ya!
 
PaulS said:
Why oh why do you hate the environment so?;)
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I drive a Tesla and a Leaf so feel free to call me a tree-hugger. But I'd rather buy a Hummer before I EVER get into another start-stop vehicle again. I rented one once and it was the worst experience ever. If this is the best humanity can come up with, we deserve to lose the planet.
 
flyingron said:
I was in a BMW uber car that seemed to have autostart and it sure sound like the car cranked each time it restarted.

I have no idea how the Volt engine starts. It just quietly starts purring. The only unnerving thing is driving a car where the engine rpms are often decoupled from the car speed.
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A lot of the conventional-engine autostarts use what's essentially a beefed-up starter motor. There's a lot of variance in the smoothness of the restart from manufacturer to manufacturer. If there's noticeable judder/vibration, it's annoying as heck and I defeat it. If it's smooth, I'll keep it on. And yes, anything with a CVT transmission is a bit disconcerting with the "motorboating" effect of vehicle speed lagging behind engine speed. Audi and others even put artificial "steps" in CVT power delivery to make the CVT seem like a conventional auto. Odd.

Sundancer said:
My Mazda nearly killed me when I first bought it - very steep, narrow, rural road, intersecting with a fairly well traveled major road; view to the left obstructed by a McMansion privacy fence. Had to roll forward to peek; big truck coming, press the clutch in, to roll back - and nothing. It "helps" on hills by waiting about an hour before the clutch disengages and lets you roll back; O.K. not an hour, but long enough to require a panic shift into reverse.
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Yeah, I hate the "hill holder" feature too, especially with a manual trans. We true clutch artists know how to get moving smoothly on a grade. :) Another huge annoyance is auto-blip on a stick. It works beautifully, but half the fun of having a manual trans is the DIY satisfaction of a well-timed/executed heel-toe blip on the downshift.


Sundancer said:
Keyless ignition is kinda dumb, almost pointless, as well. Like a rocket sled back to a 1930s DeSoto.
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This is one technology I kinda like. No fiddling for keys in your pocket; just push the button and go. Remote door locking is another keeper. I test-drove a Cayman a while back, and its "key" is a car-shaped fob that needs to be inserted in a big slot (left of the steering column, per Porsche convention) and twisted, like a conventional key. So why not go with either a conventional key, or simply a push-to-start button with the fob in your pocket? Major clunkiness.

Also hate the electric servo parking brakes with the "scrreeeeeeooooonnch" sound as they engage. A ratcheting mechanical handbrake is simple and waaaaay more satisfying.
 
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Doggtyred said:
The rental I had, didn't appear to use the starter motor to restart... The cylinders stopped with a fuel charge in them, by appearing to cut off the spark. When starting again, the brain appeared to fire off the appropriate cylinder that was just past TDC to restart it...

I could be mistaken, but there wasn't any big current draw or click of starter solenoid or sound of cranking when the idle restart fired off..
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If it was a Toyota Synergy drive, then the drive motors in the transmission (planetary gear drive) will start the motor. You won't hear any starter.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Also, as to the "oil draining back into the block" issue, that pretty much doesn't happen on any modern vehicle because almost every oil filter used has an anti-drain valve (read: rubber gravity flap/valve) that prevents oil from returning to the pan on restarts. Lifters/etc don't lose their charge of oil for quite a long time after shutdown, and modern oils provide more than enough lubrication to prevent any cold start/dry start problems. It simply just isn't an issue short of not starting your car for months at a time.
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I think time will just have to tell. Once a journal bearing is stopped it isn't floating anymore and it's contacting metal. Maybe modern lubricants minimize the metal on metal wear but unless they are using roller bearings (which I doubt) that will still be an issue.
 
Check with the dealer. They may be able to disable it with their diagnostic computer. I looked at a bmw and the shop is able to disable that function.
 
flyingron said:
Highbeam switches on the floor
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I actually remember a car that had some kind of flexible rubber container maybe 4" dia. on the floor, you depressed it to spray alcohol mix on the windshield. Anyone remember?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I actually remember a car that had some kind of flexible rubber container maybe 4" dia. on the floor, you depressed it to spray alcohol mix on the windshield. Anyone remember?
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I had one. 68 Mustang
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I actually remember a car that had some kind of flexible rubber container maybe 4" dia. on the floor, you depressed it to spray alcohol mix on the windshield. Anyone remember?
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Yup.

And vacuum operated windshield wipers that would stop when you stepped on the gas to pass on a 2 lane highway.

And, my first car ('59 Sunbeam Alpine) had a crank that you could use when (not if) the starter wasn't working. And a manual choke. And a non-syncromesh first gear.
But that one had two speed (on and off) electric wipers.
 
Arob16 said:
I had a hybrid that did the engine shut off thing as a rental, and it drove me nuts. I wonder if the starters fail early on those vehicles.
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I don't think hybrid cars have dedicated starter motors. I believe the same electric motor that moves the whole car is used to start the engine.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I actually remember a car that had some kind of flexible rubber container maybe 4" dia. on the floor, you depressed it to spray alcohol mix on the windshield. Anyone remember?
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Remember the R10 had a knob on the panel that you pressed, but it just actuated a bulb for pressure to squirt an infinitesimal stream of fluid onto the windshield. And, the turn-signal lever was on the right side of the steering column. And the horn was on the lever on the left side of the steering column. And, it had a crank hole in the back so you could crank the engine with the same handle that was used to jack the car up.

French.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I actually remember a car that had some kind of flexible rubber container maybe 4" dia. on the floor, you depressed it to spray alcohol mix on the windshield. Anyone remember?
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To keep this aviation related, my friend bought a cabin Waco and we're sitting in it running the checklist getting ready to fire it up the first time and he gets down to the "crank the engine" step and can't figure it out. I told him I think it's that high-beam-type button on the floor.
 
MassPilot said:
I don't think hybrid cars have dedicated starter motors. I believe the same electric motor that moves the whole car is used to start the engine.
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Depends on the hybrid. Most do, actually, because the engine connected generator can't generate enough torque for starting. Planetary gear drive transmission can use the drive motors to start the engine.

This explains how it works.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
And vacuum operated windshield wipers that would stop when you stepped on the gas to pass on a 2 lane highway.
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Yeah, I remember that from my dad's '59 Ford Galaxie Skyliner (retractable hardtop!). He also had an old Continental with hydraulic wipers (some T-Birds had this setup too, IIRC).
 
JoseCuervo said:
But they don't screw up as often as the "barstool geniuses" drinking Keystone Light and telling stories about their uncle's buddy's nephew's teacher's barber's mom who has a faulty Jeep Grand Cherokee....
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Hey, everybody is just having a discussion, nobody is discrediting engineers here...IMG_1142.GIF
 
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