Radio phraseology questions

[RobertGerace]

1) I have TIS via the Garmin GTX330. If I want to let a controller know that I have the traffic, the only thing I know how to say is "I've got him on TCAS" which I'm almost certain is wrong. However, saying "I've got him on TIS" sounds even worse.

2) Today I flew right through an area where two airplanes were flying aerobatics (and I was on an IFR flight plan!). The controller called out the traffic, and after I found them I said, "310RG has both traffic". I'm never sure if they are 'targets' or 'bogeys' which both sound like something I should shoot at. Is there a proper way to speak about multiple airplanes the controller sees?

Thanks!

 

[CFIse]

1) I have TIS via the Garmin GTX330. If I want to let a controller know that I have the traffic, the only thing I know how to say is "I've got him on TCAS" which I'm almost certain is wrong. However, saying "I've got him on TIS" sounds even worse.

You either have them visually or you don't - the controller doesn't care, and can do nothing with, the information that you have them electronically. Notwithstanding all the "Got him on the fishfinder" etc. you hear on the frequencies.

So if you have the traffic say "Traffic in Sight" as supported by the PCG.

TRAFFIC IN SIGHT- Used by pilots to inform a controller that previously issued traffic is in sight.

When dealing with more than one plane you'll just need to make it up, but they're not targets or bogeys - perhaps using the direction to identify which of the traffic you have.

 

[gibbons]

When dealing with more than one plane you'll just need to make it up, but they're not targets or bogeys - perhaps using the direction to identify which of the traffic you have.

How about, "N69LW has both aircraft in sight?"

 

[wsuffa]

1) I have TIS via the Garmin GTX330. If I want to let a controller know that I have the traffic, the only thing I know how to say is "I've got him on TCAS" which I'm almost certain is wrong. However, saying "I've got him on TIS" sounds even worse.

2) Today I flew right through an area where two airplanes were flying aerobatics (and I was on an IFR flight plan!). The controller called out the traffic, and after I found them I said, "310RG has both traffic". I'm never sure if they are 'targets' or 'bogeys' which both sound like something I should shoot at. Is there a proper way to speak about multiple airplanes the controller sees?

Thanks!

1) The only thing that counts is visual contact. Use the TIS to figure out where to look.

2) Traffic is a plural word. When you have both, let 'em know you have the traffic. Otherwise, you can simply let them know you have one of them (or neither) as the case may be.

 

[Gary Sortor]

Bob,

On a related issue, how do you like the TIS? Do you get enough worthwhile use out of it, considering it's only available in the terminal areas? And, as a practical matter, how well do you receive in the fringe in terminal areas? Roughly, what is the installed cost? Thanks.

 

[RobertGerace]

Bob,

On a related issue, how do you like the TIS? Do you get enough worthwhile use out of it, considering it's only available in the terminal areas? And, as a practical matter, how well do you receive in the fringe in terminal areas? Roughly, what is the installed cost? Thanks.

Gary,

Hmmmm...Well.....

The more I fly all over the country, the less I like it. I spend lots of time hearing the cute brittish voice telling me, "Traffic Not Available," and seeing the 'Traffic Unavailable" message. Also, when it alerts ("TRAFFIC" and a yellow circle) you had really better do something quickly.

I had to fly to Tampa during Sun & Fun and (as always) I was on an IFR flight plan even between Tampa and Leesburg (stop for dinner). I was looking hard and didn't see anything (in general). Then ATC told me, "I have a (I forget his exact words...aircraft proximity alert...or something like that). I looked down at my GNS530 and a yellow circle pops up right underneath me and I hear TRAFFIC just as it popped up.

That was too close for comfort. I vowed to avoid flying near big flyins in the future.

I have already made my mind up that my next airplane (or this one if I can never afford to get a 'next' airplane) will have TCAD. I hear the Ryan TCAD 9xxx is like...$20,000...so I won't be buying that anytime soon.

All of the above being said, as Bill said above, TIS is a huge help in helping me to know where to look for traffic. It is always approximately where TIS shows it...when it shows it...

...then again...approximately is the key word. I believe TCAD is more like EXACTLY vs Approximately.

As I remember, the GTX330 (transponder that receives the Mode-S) is about $2,000 more than the GTX327 (little brother...no traffic and a feature or two less under the Func button). In addition, you need something to display it on...my 530 does a fairly good job of showing it.

I would like to have a better alert...tell me about it when I have 3 or 4 minutes to do something about it rather than when I'm about to hit it.

Bottom line...MUCH better than nothing...but FAR from perfect. :cheerio:

 

[Dave Siciliano]

It probably won't surprise you to hear me say the different systems have different strengths. I'm flying with the Ryan TCAD system and do like getting a heads up for traffic; however, my system only shows distance and whether it's above or below with differential altitude. Many times I've not been able to see the traffic when alerted. It could be behind me where it would be very difficult to spot or under me somewhere. I get very little warning when head on. Also, no alert for aircraft without a transponder.

I flew with the Garmin system this weekend and it sure makes you feel naked when it tells you it's our of the coverage area as Robert said.

The folks with the satellite system tell me they have had reception problems at times.
These systems keep improving. Like anything else, you need to understand where they really help and what the shortcomings are.

My TCAD has really helped a couple of times. With a low wing, it's very helpful to know another plane is under me when descending.

Best,

Dave

 

[John J]

Had an interresting communications with tower not long ago. Departing KSBY the tower called out traffic at 11 o'clock and I replied "traffic in sight" It was a Dash 8-200 on a long base to final. The tower asked him if he saw me and he just came back with; "I have him on the fish finder" I knew he was not seeing me visually so I increased more distance away from him.

John J

 

[Gary Sortor]

Gary,


That was too close for comfort. I vowed to avoid flying near big flyins in the future.

Bob,

I live in Tampa and stay on the ground throughout Sun n' Fun for exactly that reason.

 

[wsuffa]

I've been relatively pleased with my Garmin 330. As Bob and Dave point out, unless you're going to spend a small fortune, there is no "perfect solution". I'd love to have full TCAD, but don't want to spend the money in this airplane.

Even TCAD is no guarantee: it only works if the other plane has it's transponder on and is squawking altitude. In many places, you'll find ATC pointing out unidentified traffic because they're not seeing a transponder.

The Garmin works pretty well in- or near- most Class B and Class C airspace. There is a time lag - but it really helps tell you where to look. There are large swaths where it doesn't work.

My mission profile generally takes me in and out of airports near to Class B/C airspace. So the Mode S works OK. On long trips (much of my flying), I get above 10,000, and often above 12,000, where there is a lot less traffic and everybody is supposed to have a transponder. File & fly IFR. That will keep you out of the way of a lot of traffic. On your way into the terminal area, the Mode-S works, enhancing your "see and avoid". When I'm doing training stuff, I'm close enough to the Class C that Mode-S works OK.

No, it's not the perfect solution. But it is one solution.... and it has saved my bacon more than once (including the time a scud-runner was busting through a solid layer ahead of me as I was shooting the ILS in full IMC).