Radiation

Greg Bockelman

Greg Bockelman

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Greg Bockelman
It looks like I will have the "opportunity" to be flying to Narita Japan come mid May. The distance between Narita, and Fukushima, where the nuclear reactor issues are is 137 miles. Narita being straight south. I know things probably aren't as good as the Japanese are saying and not as bad as the mainstream media are reporting. The truth is more than likely somewhere in the middle.

I am typically not one to be an alarmist, but given the circumstances, how "dangerous" is the radiation likely to be in Narita, 137 miles away? Should I avoid the trip? Any precautions if I DO take the trip?
 
Insignificant.

Don't lick the soles of your shoes and don't eat fresh veggies if you feel you have to do something.
 
Your time is probably better spent having your basement tested for Radon concentration. Iowa is the number one Radon hot spot in the U.S.

You also get a lot more gamma and cosmic radiation exposure in your profession than the average flatlander working on the ground.
 
Trapper John said:
Your time is probably better spent having your basement tested for Radon concentration. Iowa is the number one Radon hot spot in the U.S.
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Been there, done that. Got the pump.

You also get a lot more gamma and cosmic radiation exposure in your profession than the average flatlander working on the ground.
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This is true. But I don't want to add significantly to that unnecessarily.
 
Greg,

I think that the direction of the plume (and whether you'll transit the plume) are of greater consequence to possible exposure than anything else. Likewise the source of food that you eat.

It is most likely the case that any exposure is within safe limits, but note that exposure is cumulative. I other words, brief exposures to low levels shouldn't be a huge issue.

Is the company rotating pilots to avoid cumulative exposure? Or will you be on the route for an extensive amount of time?

Given that few passengers/cargo are flagged for radiation upon arrival back in the US, I'd surmise that the exposure is within limits - but that's simply my analysis of the situation. Remember that you're already receiving higher levels of background radiation than some folks just by virtue of being an airline pilot.

Has the union done any analysis of the situation? What do they say?
 
wsuffa said:
I think that the direction of the plume (and whether you'll transit the plume) are of greater consequence to possible exposure than anything else. Likewise the source of food that you eat.
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Good question. When the "crisis" first started, I know they were routing flights way south of the area. I don't know if that is still happening. As for the food, good point. Maybe I should just plan on bringing my own.

It is most likely the case that any exposure is within safe limits, but note that exposure is cumulative. I other words, brief exposures to low levels shouldn't be a huge issue.
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Yeah. Its not like I am not already exposed enough as it is.

Is the company rotating pilots to avoid cumulative exposure? Or will you be on the route for an extensive amount of time?
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Well, the company doesn't really control that all that much. With the seniority system as it is, one can be there as much or as little as they want, unless one is real junior and doesn't have a choice.

Remember that you're already receiving higher levels of background radiation than some folks just by virtue of being an airline pilot.
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THAT is the driving factor behind my inquiry.

Has the union done any analysis of the situation? What do they say?
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ROTFLMAO. YGTBSM! Listen to the Union, it is all Doom and Gloom. Listen to the company it is all Hunky Dorry. The truth is somewhere inbetween.
 
Your only risk (if any) is incorporation of long-lived nastiness like Cs137 or god forbid the plutonium from the mixed-oxide containing reactor. But unless you are a reindeer foraging on moss that is not a likely exposure to start with. The small amounts of I131 found in the air should be pretty much gone by the time you get there. Direct radiation from the reactors is only a factor in the immediate vicinity of the plant.

Other things not to do:
- scuba-diving 500m from the plants cooling water drains.
- eating shellfish harvested around the water outlets.
- don't volunteer for cleanup in the plants basement. I know, it pays well but its hard work ;)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Good question. When the "crisis" first started, I know they were routing flights way south of the area. I don't know if that is still happening. As for the food, good point. Maybe I should just plan on bringing my own.



Yeah. Its not like I am not already exposed enough as it is.



Well, the company doesn't really control that all that much. With the seniority system as it is, one can be there as much or as little as they want, unless one is real junior and doesn't have a choice.



THAT is the driving factor behind my inquiry.



ROTFLMAO. YGTBSM! Listen to the Union, it is all Doom and Gloom. Listen to the company it is all Hunky Dorry. The truth is somewhere inbetween.
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Food-wise, anything packaged before the quake should be OK. I might be concerned about the source of fresh stuff.... and I might avoid sushi where the source of the feesh is unknown. I might also choose bottled water (but I generally do internationally anyway).

Personally, I would probably make a trip to Tokyo if I needed to. The concern would be frequent repeated trips - not sure what I'd do. I do have an old friend that's in the nuclear safety business, but she's overwhelmed with work related to Japan right now.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Actually, Dave, I am considering getting some sort of medical dose meter for those trips. Wonder how much they are.
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I am reading that a lot of places are sold out.
ebay had a lot of hits for geiger counter, check it out. Might have to do some research on specs and capabilities to ensure you get what you really need.
 
I think Dick's Sporting Goods sells jock straps with lead rather than plastic cups.
 
If you are really concerned about excessive exposure, buy one of these:
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8192210&pfx=


You need the charger as well, shown on the right side which is used to charge the pen and to re-zero it after exposure. A few of you could split the cost of the charger.
I wore these for a few years in addition to a film badge type which had to be sent to a lab to be read.
Just a thought.....
 
Let me know what you find out Greg. I have to be in Narita come June for a trip down to Kobe for a week. I not too filled with joy about this upcoming trip. I do not plan on eating anything from the ocean.
 
ScottM said:
Let me know what you find out Greg. I have to be in Narita come June for a trip down to Kobe for a week. I not too filled with joy about this upcoming trip. I do not plan on eating anything from the ocean.
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I'd be MUCH more concerned about milk and veggies...

Seriously. Ocean is going to dilute things until they equilibrate with background. Thats not where the risk is.
 
murphey said:
I ws thinking more like lead-lined Depends. You want to protect the entire area.
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I know you are kidding... but in all seriousness.. read up on alpha and beta particle radiation and then you will understand that an ordinary jockstrap might suffice...
 
Doggtyred said:
I know you are kidding... but in all seriousness.. read up on alpha and beta particle radiation and then you will understand that an ordinary jockstrap might suffice...
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Alpha yes, beta no.

There is a theory known as radiation hormesis with some evidence to back it up that exposure to radiation doses above background (but not too high) may elicit a protective effect. I hope that this theory is correct since I am regularly exposed to low doses of x-ray and gamma radiation. I quit checking my monthly dosimeter readings and just try to minimize my exposure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
 
With all the fear of radiation fallout from Japan I thought it might be useful to tell you
about a cheap, effective, homemade radiation tester you can easily assemble and rely upon. Just follow these simple instructions:

Open a bag of Orville Redenbacher Microwave Popcorn.
Leave it on your kitchen counter.
If it starts popping, your screwed.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
It looks like I will have the "opportunity" to be flying to Narita Japan come mid May. The distance between Narita, and Fukushima, where the nuclear reactor issues are is 137 miles. Narita being straight south. I know things probably aren't as good as the Japanese are saying and not as bad as the mainstream media are reporting. The truth is more than likely somewhere in the middle.

I am typically not one to be an alarmist, but given the circumstances, how "dangerous" is the radiation likely to be in Narita, 137 miles away? Should I avoid the trip? Any precautions if I DO take the trip?
Click to expand...


Relative penetrating power of ionizing radiation

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scdirof...tionandShielding/PenetrationandShielding.html

you just can't make a general statement without knowing the energies of the source terms, but in my opinion a person at the fence of the power plant sites at Daiichi would not receive "dangerous" levels of radiation exposure, much less inside an aluminum structure tens of thousands of feet above it

the most hazardous location would be in any plume of radioactive particulate emanating from the site that could be ingested and that depends on weather patterns more than proximity to the plant site

for an overview of biological effects of ionizing radiation the NRC provides this guide

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/09.pdf

it describes the worst case scenarios for acute exposure

effects of extremely low levels of radiation exposure are not so well defined and anyone who makes a definite statement regarding low levels has little scientific basis for it
 
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murphey said:
I ws thinking more like lead-lined Depends. You want to protect the entire area.
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I thought that was only a concern if you wanted to procreate. Is there something Greg isn't telling us? :D

Coincidentally I was looking through some old documents in my mom's condo and I found out that my grandfather on my father's side was born in a Yonezawa which is a city that is only about 30 miles from Fukushima. I also read that they are famous for their beef. I guess that business will be going downhill.
 
Everskyward said:
I thought that was only a concern if you wanted to procreate. Is there something Greg isn't telling us? :D

Coincidentally I was looking through some old documents in my mom's condo and I found out that my grandfather on my father's side was born in a Yonezawa which is a city that is only about 30 miles from Fukushima. I also read that they are famous for their beef. I guess that business will be going downhill.
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I think "off the cliff" might be a more a propos metaphor. :(
 
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