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pcogs

Filing Flight Plan
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pcogs
On the fence about about getting a PPL. Just read a great post about the cost of getting license and I'm good with that. I just don't know if once I have it, I will actually be able to do what I want. For me it's about getting somewhere vs being up in the air. I live in TX, and work in SC for 4 months of the year. I want to be able to go places for a day or two.

20 years ago I went down this path and even joined a club, but part way through I realized I could never get a plane unless I scheduled it well in advance and the idea of getting one for a spur of the moment weekend overnight was virtually impossible. I've been trying to find information on renting but haven't found anything other than for lesson time. Maybe I'm not googling it right. Can anyone tell me what the best option is if you don't own and what your experience has been? Can you get a plane to go away for a day or two? How do they charge you for all the time it sits?

I can afford to spend 50 to 100k to purchase one, but need to find out what owning a plane really entails. I'm sure there's a post on this. Can anyone point me to it?
 
Welcome to the board. And happy thanksgiving!

How many hours a year would you estimate you will be flying?
Club may not be the answer but possibly a partnership.

No reason not to own if you can afford that price range but if it is only going to be flown four months out of the year (if I read that right) you won't want it sitting for the rest of the year.
 
Sorry, I could have been more clear but wanted to avoid an information dump and also not appear as ignorant as I truly am.

I live in Houston and own a seasonal tourist business in SC that operates during the summer months. This both takes me away from my family and at the same time provides me ample opportunity to play. During the summer, it would be cool if possible to fly to Houston as needed for a day or so. It would also be great to use HHH, SC as a base to hit stops along the east coast up to NJ or down to Keys. Last but not least, I have the whole winter off so as long as I can get the kids to school I have plenty of time to myself for a day trips or whatever.
 
A partnership probably wouldn't work as I would want to have the plane with me whether I was in Houston or Hilton Head.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Welcome to the board. And happy thanksgiving!

How many hours a year would you estimate you will be flying?
Club may not be the answer but possibly a partnership.

No reason not to own if you can afford that price range but if it is only going to be flown four months out of the year (if I read that right) you won't want it sitting for the rest of the year.
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First locate a good A&I tat will let you do owner assist. Buy the plane. Train in the plane.

Take your plane with you to SC. :)
 
Happy thanksgiving,welcome to the board. Get the ticket,then get you own airplane,it's great.
 
pcogs said:
...Can you get a plane to go away for a day or two? How do they charge you for all the time it sits? .....
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most places that I know of charge daily minimum fees, let's just say 2-3 hours average. so if you took a plane for a few days they will charge you 2-3 hours/day whether you fly or not. I know every place is different, this is just a general idea. then you have to factor in if the plane is even available for the days you want to take it, PITA!
 
And I was the opposite...I purchased a 182 with the "rationale" that I could use it for business but knew it would really be just for pleasure and $100 hamburger runs. Well, in reality flying for business has actually been a majority of my missions and has been great. I got my IFR so I have even more flexibility, but know that GA is not always gonna be the best option. I always have a backup plan when getting there on time is mission critical.

It rarely makes financial sense to own and travel GA, but you are paying for flexibility and freedom of time which has been an incredible value for me. Plus it is just dang fun.

I opted for ownership over rental or club as most pilots I know that rent fly a fraction of time that owners do. I logged a bit over 250 hours last year and probably would have only flown a quarter of that if I had to rent each time.

With your budget, you can find a great capable aircraft. Operating costs are another story when you figure in maintenance (I plan for at least $2-3K/yr), annual inspection ($1200 + any issues found. $2400 for my last annual), insurance ($1400 as a relatively new pilot), Toys and accessories (sky is the limit!), hanger costs (anywhere from $50/month for tie downs to upwards of $600 for hanger depending on location), rebuild reserve funds (or just pray...$25-$40K every 1500 hours on engine depending on plane)...they can add up. Barring any major unexpected costs, the consensus seems to be that at least 100 hours a year is the point where it even begins to makes sense to buy vs rent.
 
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Depends on the flight school and how many planes they have vs students they have to fly them. Some schools will have planes available almost anytime you need one, others may not. If you rent a plane for 2 days and it sits overnight somewhere, you are only charged for the you fly it (based on the hobbs meter). So you dont pay for how many hours you actually have the plane.
 
I think it'd work much better for your mission to own instead of rent. I'd also say if you're gonna' depend on it for reliable cross country transportation you need an instrument rating too.
 
Sounds to me like you'd need a minimum of a Mooney to accomplish your mission. At at 100 hours per year for 150ish KTAS, expect total cost to be likely around $15k. If you only need a 2-seater (which I'm guessing won't work if you have a family), a Lancair 360 would probably end up costing you about $10k/year for the same number of miles flown. All of this is average and doesn't include factors such as your engine needed to get overhauled or avionics upgrades, which can easily run you $15k+ just by themselves.

But if you want to do that trip with reliability, you'll probably find yourself moving up to a more capable single or a twin. A de-iced 310 like I fly for the equivalent of that $15k worth of Mooney miles will end up costing closer to $25k/year.

It's hard to go into too much detail and have it be accurate because of the number of variables. But I would say if you can budget at least $15k/yr for an airplane, then you should be able to get something that will work. If you can budget $30k/yr, even better.

These costs also don't include purchase price, which will vary significantly, but probably no less than $50k and no more than $150k.
 
If you want to go the GA route, I'd buy not rent.

Can you use the plane to meet your mission? Yes. Will it be cheap? No.

OTOH, what's it worth to have a capable private plane at your disposal without the TSA hassle or dealing with airline schedules and driving to/from the big airports?

If you want to fly yourself, consider a PPL with IR and regular flying (200 hrs/year) of a FIKI-approved plane as the minimum.
 
Get the PPL first and then think about the other. If you love flying, you'll do whatever you have to to fly. If you don't love it, you'll never fly enough to be safe or justify the cost. Learn to fly, then come back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
warthog1984 said:
Can you use the plane to meet your mission? Yes. Will it be cheap? No.

OTOH, what's it worth to have a capable private plane at your disposal without the TSA hassle or dealing with airline schedules and driving to/from the big airports?

If you want to fly yourself, consider a PPL with IR and regular flying (200 hrs/year) of a FIKI-approved plane as the minimum.
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I'd say the cheap "no" is relative. Depending on where you go, solo vs. many people, and choice of plane, it actually can be relatively cost competitive.

With our soon-to-be clan of 5, the 310 becomes reasonably cost-effective.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'd say the cheap "no" is relative. Depending on where you go, solo vs. many people, and choice of plane, it actually can be relatively cost competitive.

With our soon-to-be clan of 5, the 310 becomes reasonably cost-effective.
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Cost-effective: yes. Cheap: no.

But that's what's great about well-equipped GA. For every $300 fuel bill and $50 rent-a-car you get, there's a meeting that you couldn't have made, a ballgame or show you might have missed, a holiday meal with family instead of at Denny's, etc...
 
Get your Private pilot first, then buy a plane. You will know more and you will truly find out if you like it. You can do it if you have the money. Just figure it will cost what the planes you rent cost and include another 25k or so for a major repair in reserve. Theres a learning curve, mostly in maintenance. Don't get a fixer upper. Get one where everything works.
 
pcogs said:
I can afford to spend 50 to 100k to purchase one, but need to find out what owning a plane really entails. I'm sure there's a post on this. Can anyone point me to it?
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If you send me an email, I'll send you a copy of a paper I wrote about ongoing ownership costs of a simple 4-seat single (which is about what you'll be buying on that budget). Emails only, please -- no PM's, posts, telephone calls, smoke signals, or ESP thought waves, thank you.
 
For less than 100k you can buy a nice mooney 201 or bonanza. Get a 2axis autopilot, at least garmin 430 and a stormscope is helpful.

Sounds like you dont need to commute in the winter, so you should be able to make the trip reliably w/o needing turbo, de-ice etc
 
Even in the winter things are generally flyable for that route. I ran the numbers for a mooney 201 and you should be able to make that non-stop most of the time.

Bonanza can probably do it too, depends on the model and tank configuration
 
warthog1984 said:
Cost-effective: yes. Cheap: no.

But that's what's great about well-equipped GA. For every $300 fuel bill and $50 rent-a-car you get, there's a meeting that you couldn't have made, a ballgame or show you might have missed, a holiday meal with family instead of at Denny's, etc...
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Right, but travel in general isn't really cheap. Driving is cheaper than flying almost all the time, but still adds up.

Ron Levy said:
If you send me an email, I'll send you a copy of a paper I wrote about ongoing ownership costs of a simple 4-seat single (which is about what you'll be buying on that budget). Emails only, please -- no PM's, posts, telephone calls, smoke signals, or ESP thought waves, thank you.
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For $50-$100k he can buy a complex 4-place single quite easily, as well as some 4 and 6-place twins. Lots of options there. The question comes down to how much he can afford to spend per year.
 
Flying from TX to SC on a regular basis you should plan to get your instrument rating as well, so factor that into the cost. Otherwise you're going to be grounded a lot or find yourself stuck in places you don't want to be for days at a time. Also it has the side-benefit of making you a safer pilot.
 
If you get your medical first to ensure that you wouldn't be precluded from getting a ppl, I would consider buying and training in your plane. I have logged about 245 hours since I got back into flying about 23 months ago. At $160 average rental per hour, you do the math. I chose not to buy due to concerns about medical and other issues including funding a kid's college. But, I would seriously consider buying a plane if I would be away from my family for an extended period of time. And yes, after your ppl I would definitely get theIR.
 
I recently got my PPL in Houston. If you want some info on flight schools, pm me.
 
I just did a quick distance from houston, tx to columbia, sc (just for frame of reference). 765 nm. Just me, but I would want a plane that does at least 150 knots for distances like that. Remember, going back west, you will more than likely have a headwind, and a 172 will probably have you doing <100 knots.

I'd also factor in the cost of an instrument rating. Although not mandatory, it will give you tons more flexibility than a PPL alone, especially on a trip that long. Just my opinion again, but if I were routinely travelling between TX and SC, I would get a plane without blinking. Just make sure the costs are in line with what you want to pay. Also, make sure your dates have some flexibility or plan accordingly.
 
I'd agree, minimum of 150 KTAS. 175 would be a lot better with those distances, and 200 better still.

If a 2-seater is sufficient, I'd go Lancair 360. If 4-seater, a Mooney (preferably a 6-cylinder), Bonanza, Comanche 250 sound good. 210 maybe. If 6-seater, 310 or Baron.
 
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