question

[actoshcl]

I'm a college freshman, and I'm considering becoming an airline pilot because I love airliners. But I have a question about cockpit noise. Is there any risk of hearing problems with being a pilot?

-Tom

 

[tonycondon]

The biggest risk to your hearing is going to be when you are flying small piston singles. You are sitting about 2 feet away from the engine. Move to twins and the cabin wall is usually thicker and the engines are about 8-10 feet away. Get to jets and you are way out in the nose, engines are waaaay back there. You dont say if you are currently a pilot, but if you are serious and going to be doing lots of flying instructing or whatevery your method to build time, invest in your hearing and get a good ANR headset.

 

[jdwatson]

My thoughts exactly, nicely put Tony.

 

[tonycondon]

oh and i forgot, my standard way to eliminate noise is to eliminate the engine. Then I only have to listen to everyone elses airplanes rather than my own

 

[Steve]

Where are you located Level-T?

There's a chance someone on the board is nearby and could give you some first hand experience with the noise levels you can expect.

 

[ScottM]

I'm a college freshman, and I'm considering becoming an airline pilot because I love airliners. But I have a question about cockpit noise. Is there any risk of hearing problems with being a pilot?

-Tom

WHAT?? Could you repeat that??

I have a bit over 1000 hours in turbines as crew from my Air Force days. Upon my last physical during the hearing test I was told and then shown the nice deficit I have developed in my hearing. The Dr. at that time blamed it upon my flight time and the 'crappy' hearing protection we were issued.

In the small planes I always have worn very good headsets unlike what we were given in the AF, and my hearing has not changed much in twenty years.

I think the bottom line is to make sure you are using good protection and you won't have problems

 

[jason]

I very rarely fly in light singles unless I'm wearing a great headset. The level of hearing protection is really up to you.

As was stated earlier, by the time you get to the larger jets you won't need to worry about hearing protection.

 

[woodstock]

I'd be more worried about your eyes! That's a lot of time in the sun - definitely have the best eye protection you can. too much sun can cause cataracts. Don't ever fly without good sunglasses.

 

[actoshcl]

I see. I was just wondering because I'm already having minor hearing complications and I would looooooooooooooooooove to pilot a airliner. Ive loved big jets since I was a little kid. So yeah, the primary reason I ask because Im having minor complications as of right now, and I just wanted to know how cockpit noise is in a jetliner because I would rather stay away from airline aviation if it were to put my hearing on the line. plus ive always wondered how pilots talk to each other during flight.

Thanks.

oh and one more question, i understand that pay can range from aircraft, hours, airline and such, but what story is true? do airline pilots generally make good money or not so good money? no particular reason i ask, am just reeeeeeeally curious because ive heard both stories and dont know what to believe

 

[flyingcheesehead]

oh and one more question, i understand that pay can range from aircraft, hours, airline and such, but what story is true? do airline pilots generally make good money or not so good money? no particular reason i ask, am just reeeeeeeally curious because ive heard both stories and dont know what to believe

Can be $20,000 or under for a newbie first officer on a commuter airline, all the way up into six figures plus for experienced captains at the majors. It's a ladder that has to be climbed.

 

[ScottM]

Can be $20,000 or under for a newbie first officer on a commuter airline, all the way up into six figures plus for experienced captains at the majors. It's a ladder that has to be climbed.

go to http://www.willflyforfood.cc and you can see the pay scales for pilot in the regionals and the majors.

 

[woodstock]

don't forget you will be starting under 20K but be in debt close to 100K depending on where you went to school and how you paid for it.

not to be a ray of sunshine or anything...

 

[actoshcl]

thanks for the insight and the link. and i plan on going to embry riddle in daytona beach, fl once i finish up my 4 year degree. 80K tuition plus i have to move there so i'll be paying even more

 

[infotango]

Tom,
My 2 cents, and that might be over valued:

RUN away from a career as a pilot if you don't absolutely LOVE aviation. This isn't a career you get into if you just kinda sorta think airplanes are cool, it's a career that requires that you put up with a ton of BS just because you are head over heels in love with flying.
It takes a hell of a lot to get to the point where you get a commercial so it's a long slow expensive crawl up to the point where you get to fly rusty cargo planes around in the middle of the night for 20,000 a year and zero benefits. Once you finish that job you might get to fly jets, but thats a slow process, and the pay is still nowhere near the debt you will have incurred. Flying for airlines has only gotten worse in the last few years, and with so many airlines on their last legs, expect it not to get better...

My point, if you only kinda sorta like airplanes, this isn't the gig for you..

I'd suggest that you give it a try now. Work on your PPL now that you are in college. The scrimping, saving and hustling you will need to do will only serve as a nice preview to what you will expect upon graduation from some fancy flight school. If you cannot make the sacrifices now that you will need to make in order to fly, than you are going to be in dire straits when you graduate ER.

Plus this way if you decide it isn't for you, you can quit long before you have massive student loans to pay back and stuck at an aviation college. Quit before you go to ER you end up only having worked your butt off and having missed a few meals out. Quit at ER you end up deep in debt.
If you love it, thats great, and you will have a head start over everybody else, and probably save money over your classmates.

Don't buy any of the flight school BS, I'm willing to bet that almost nobody that graduates those places ends up flying right seat in anything powered by turbojets. (Save for the Mesa slaves.)

I'm not trying to p!ss on your parade, but I do want to give you some reality check. Being a Pro Pilot isn't just about strutting around Terminal A in your aviators, it's a brutally hard climb.

 

[actoshcl]

it seems you underestimate my knowledge about this. i know people in the aviation business and they have told me to be sure its what i really want because the pay can be crap and such. but i do know one thing is for sure. i love flying. i know i will be in massive debt and thats one of the things turning me off from aviation but i know i would love to be a pilot. not just the walk through terminal A, but everything else that comes with piloting. im still thinking about it, dont get me wrong, but if i end up in aviation its b/c i really want it.

on a side note, if i dont do aviation theres always microsoft flight simulator which is evolving very nicely. not to mention the wealth of addons available. its obviously not the real thing, but at least its some vague form of flying.

not to mention if i dont become a pilot i will own my own personal cessna or something.

 

[Skip Miller]

not to mention if i dont become a pilot i will own my own personal cessna or something.

Tom, I know what you meant, but....


Cessna drivers are pilots, too!

-Skip

 

[infotango]

it seems you underestimate my knowledge about this. i know people in the aviation business and they have told me to be sure its what i really want because the pay can be crap and such. but i do know one thing is for sure. i love flying. i know i will be in massive debt and thats one of the things turning me off from aviation but i know i would love to be a pilot. not just the walk through terminal A, but everything else that comes with piloting. im still thinking about it, dont get me wrong, but if i end up in aviation its b/c i really want it.

Good for you then!

Still nothing stopping you from getting the PPL now.

 

[jesse]

Tom... Let me tell you what I ended up deciding.

I have been around aviation all throughout my life. I had always wanted to crop dust. I really hadn't even considered anything else. It was just what my family did.

As time went by the crop dusting came to an end and the doors that I had were gone. I was still determined though that crop dusting was what I wanted. I decided that if I was going to do this I should get my pilots license.

I had a job that I hated and I was at work as much as they possibly would let me. I rarely had a day off and if I wasn't at work I was sleeping. Once a week I would have enough money to take a lesson. Being in the air made it all worth it. Each lesson was the highlight of my week.

It took me eight months to get my pilots license. I was now seventeen. All I wanted to do now was fly. I lived for it. Any excuse I could get any person I could find that wanted to fly. I'd fly.

I was still pretty determined that I wanted aviation as a career. I started to run the numbers and figure out how long it would take me to get my ratings and start flight instructing. It was going to take me YEARS at my income. Honestly if I would have found a way to get loans and go to a flight school... I would have. But this wasn't an option for me.

I started to look at the aviation industry...Really it's a mess right now. It might get better. The reality of it is that after years of flight instructing you will probably get a position paying around $20,000 per year.

All of this hard work and all I had to look forward to was $20,000 per year. The more I thought about this the more I had to ask myself a few questions:

What would make me happy?

Flying my own airplane
Flying someone else’s when they tell me to for a small salary.

The more I thought about this… The more I realized. I live to fly. I would much rather fly because I want to fly, on my own schedule, where I want to fly, with my own plane. It might not be as fast it might not have a glass cockpit. But that’s not what flying is all about for me.

Flying to me is all about freedom. It’s about being all alone up there on your own. When you are in an airplane the ONLY thing that matters is the flight. Everything else is put on hold. I love flying around exploring the country. I love being up there with the clouds.

I decided that:

Work is work. It’s not supposed to be fun.

Flying is my love.

I’m going to keep them separate.



I’ve talked to way too many people that have more debt then they can handle and can’t even find a flying job for ANY amount of money. Basically what I’m telling you is: Think this through.

 

[jdwatson]

Amen. Everytime I've made a hobby a vocation, I got burnt out and ended up hating both for a while. Nice post, Jesse.

 

[actoshcl]

Basically what I’m telling you is: Think this through.

i think i am underestimated yet again. just because im a freshman doesnt mean i cant think. trust me. there is nothing more that i hate than making a bad decision. i will think this through until the very last second of the moment that i have to know what i am going to do with my life. airline aviation is my number one love. computer programming is second. medical field is third. believe me when i say that the other two sound very attractive compared in aviation in terms of pay and work hours and post-schooling debt. not to mention doctors and programmers are needed everywhere.

--T

 

[woodstock]

Jesse, great post. It's true. Work at a job you like ok - but that makes money - at least pays the bills and if it does more than pay the bills, well that's even better! and fly for fun. My CFI friends I've known for 3 yrs now are a little disillusioned - they finally got their flying jobs but they are still broke and if layoffs come, they are lower on the totem pole.

 

[bbchien]

i think i am underestimated yet again. just because im a freshman doesnt mean i cant think. trust me. there is nothing more that i hate than making a bad decision. i will think this through until the very last second of the moment that i have to know what i am going to do with my life. airline aviation is my number one love. computer programming is second. medical field is third. believe me when i say that the other two sound very attractive compared in aviation in terms of pay and work hours and post-schooling debt. not to mention doctors and programmers are needed everywhere.

--T

Of course you can think! You just can't KNOW.

I did it the other way around. USN stumbled into aviation. Freight dog. Medical school and two residencies. Who knows how it would have or not worked out the other way around. You can't tell.

What I can tell you is, as I send my own children off to colleges, I am very happy that I can make THEIR lives happen. I'm less sure that I could do that, had I gone the other way around.

Jesse has had a lot of time to think about this, too. E-mail him off line - he's from a 3 generation aviation family, and he's telling you this. I can tell you many, many hair raising stories. But I survived.

 

[Everskyward]

i think i am underestimated yet again. just because im a freshman doesnt mean i cant think. trust me. there is nothing more that i hate than making a bad decision. i will think this through until the very last second of the moment that i have to know what i am going to do with my life.

I don't think there's any last moment. I hope not anyway.

For people like you who probably aren't even 20, you're looking at something like 40 years of work ahead of you. There's no way to predict what going to happen in those 40 years so you might as well do the thing that speaks to you... but be prepared to be flexible. Listen to what other people have to say, but ultimately you have to follow your own path.

Since people here have come down hard on flying for a living, I'll tell you that I'm glad I decided to do it that way. I switched from flying recreationally to flying professionally in my 20s and I did it in small steps. I also knew pretty much what I was getting into because I had worked in small airplanes as a camera operator for a few years previous. For various reasons I don't think the other way (making a lot of money in some other profession and flying recreationally) would have been right for me.

PS. I should add that I'm not an airline pilot and I've probably had a more stable set of jobs than what is the norm.

 

[Keith Lane]

For people like you who probably aren't even 20, you're looking at something like 40 years of work ahead of you. There's no way to predict what going to happen in those 40 years so you might as well do the thing that speaks to you... but be prepared to be flexible. Listen to what other people have to say, but ultimately you have to follow your own path.

I'm 50.
I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up.
Just ask my wife.