Question of the Week

[AdamZ]

I always read the Question of the Week In the AOPA news letter. I always wonder if I'm gonna get stumped ( never do) but sometimes I am amazed at the simplicity of the questions. I mean the questions tend to be incredibly basic information that every student should have. I am wondering if the questions are actual questions submitted by students or if AOPA just comes up with a question. Here was this weeks:

Question: I am a student pilot about to take my first solo cross-country flight. I was wondering if I am allowed to bring my husband along. Since he is not a pilot, would I still be able to count this as solo flight time?

Answer: Unfortunately, your husband will have to stay at home. FAR 61.89(a) prohibits student pilots from carrying passengers. Once you have earned your private pilot certificate, you can take all of your friends and family flying with you. The only time you can log solo flight time is when you are the sole occupant of the airplane (FAR 61.51).

What is worng here? I don't know if its the student or the CFI. How does one not know that as a PP student you cannot carry pax? Unbuhleaveable

 

[Rob Schaffer]

Did you read about the prop accident just the other day? Same question comes to mind, while those circumstances were different, why don't these students know ? and why do (did) they choose to defy them?

I was taught about those restrictions, it was in the rental agreement, and on the pre-solo quiz!

 

[Ted]

What is worng here? I don't know if its the student or the CFI. How does one not know that as a PP student you cannot carry pax? Unbuhleaveable

My ex had a similar question when we were engaged... "Why can't your instructor sign you off to solo to Arizona and we'll fly out there?" "Well, technically he could, but I still couldn't bring you." "Why not?" "Solo. You know, alone?"

It sounds to me like an instructor/student issue. She may not think he's a good authority, or else asked him, he said no, and then she wanted to check another source. Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

 

[Henning]

My ex had a similar question when we were engaged... "Why can't your instructor sign you off to solo to Arizona and we'll fly out there?" "Well, technically he could, but I still couldn't bring you." "Why not?" "Solo. You know, alone?"

It sounds to me like an instructor/student issue. She may not think he's a good authority, or else asked him, he said no, and then she wanted to check another source. Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

For your wife, no, not unreasonable, for a student pilot, extremely unreasonable as they should know to go into the FAR for the definitive answer on that.

 

[Ted]

For your wife, no, not unreasonable, for a student pilot, extremely unreasonable as they should know to go into the FAR for the definitive answer on that.

I think that's expecting a lot out of a student pilot when you figure that we've got a lot of actual pilots out there who don't know to do that, or if they do can't understand what they read (I think a large number of us fall into the can't understand category, depending on the particular regulation).

My guess is most likely the student didn't believe the instructor, and wanted to find someone else who would tell her he was wrong. Goes back to bad student/instructor relationship.

 

[poadeleted20]

For a Student Pilot signed off for solo not to know the limitations associated with those privileges speaks very poorly for the instructor who signed the endorsement. However, I don't fault the ill-informed student for asking for clarification; in fact, I think that caution speaks well of the student.

 

[SkyHog]

I can only guess AOPA didn't get a good question, so they made one up. No solo student is missing that knowledge.

 

[poadeleted20]

I can only guess AOPA didn't get a good question, so they made one up. No solo student is missing that knowledge.

I can tell you're not an instructor who's dealt with a lot of students. After 35 years as a CFI, I am no longer shocked, amazed, or astonished at what folks don't know or weren't taught; I just hide my feelings from them and teach them what they should have already known.

 

[Henning]

For a Student Pilot signed off for solo not to know the limitations associated with those privileges speaks very poorly for the instructor who signed the endorsement. However, I don't fault the ill-informed student for asking for clarification; in fact, I think that caution speaks well of the student.

Oh, I wouldn't bet on that horse all too fast. There are people who won't listen to what they don't want to hear, I've dealt with plenty of that.

 

[Henning]

I can tell you're not an instructor who's dealt with a lot of students. After 35 years as a CFI, I am no longer shocked, amazed, or astonished at what folks don't know or weren't taught; I just hide my feelings from them and teach them what they should have already known.

Figure you may have taught half of them at the outside. The rest of them you just said it to again, not that they cared.

 

[mikea]

I can tell you're not an instructor who's dealt with a lot of students. After 35 years as a CFI, I am no longer shocked, amazed, or astonished at what folks don't know or weren't taught; I just hide my feelings from them and teach them what they should have already known.

I can tell you I personally know a 1970s-era private pilot who not only took passengers up pre-PPL, he said he no problem flying in IMC - he just engaged the autopilot.

I am so VERY glad a had such a stickler for CFI, and that I was an old and wise late blooming aviator.

 

[AdamZ]

Did you read about the prop accident just the other day? Same question comes to mind, while those circumstances were different, why don't these students know ? and why do (did) they choose to defy them?

I was taught about those restrictions, it was in the rental agreement, and on the pre-solo quiz!

Rob: In the Prop strike incident the students apparetnly knew they were not allowed to carry pax. they broke the rules and were trying not to get caught when one of them was struck.

 

[AdamZ]

Well I think both Ron and Henning are right. If the student didn't know its good he asked and that leads me to beleive he wasn't taught BUT Henning is on target when he says basically that some folks only hear what they want to hear.

 

[SkyHog]

Don't forget the common non-pilot response to a student going on their first solo.

"Alone? You don't have to have someone with you?"

Solo is apparently a confusing word.

 

[poadeleted20]

Oh, I wouldn't bet on that horse all too fast. There are people who won't listen to what they don't want to hear, I've dealt with plenty of that.

I agree, but as an instructor, you have to be able to identify those folks, and make sure your signature isn't under any endorsements in their logbook.

I can tell you I personally know a 1970s-era private pilot who not only took passengers up pre-PPL, he said he no problem flying in IMC - he just engaged the autopilot.

But did he know it was not legal? Was it ignorance or did he just not care about the rules?

Solo is apparently a confusing word.

Perhaps, but as an instructor, it is my responsibility to ensure any Student Pilot to whom I grant a solo endorsement understands the FAA's definition of that word and provides me sufficient assurance that s/he will abide by the rules associated with it -- before I sign that endorsement.

 

[flyersfan31]

After 35 years as a CFI, I am no longer shocked, amazed, or astonished at what folks don't know or weren't taught

...or won't bother to learn.

I believe you Ron. It's crazy the stuff I hear just hanging around the FBO. It makes me wonder sometimes about the people getting their PPLs.

 

[Ted]

Oh, I wouldn't bet on that horse all too fast. There are people who won't listen to what they don't want to hear, I've dealt with plenty of that.

That was my point, especially for a student who's impatient and wants to take his/her significant other up, and doesn't understand why not.

 

[KennyFlys]

Oh, I wouldn't bet on that horse all too fast. There are people who won't listen to what they don't want to hear, I've dealt with plenty of that.

I wouldn't keep someone as a student very long if they were continually ignoring the rules. My ticket depends on insuring they know what the rules are and address any issue where that is not the case.

If someone repeatedly ingores the rules, their flying may well get cut short and certainly long before they put my ticket at risk.

 

[BigAL]

Sorry, but I gotta add my .02........keep the change.

Why take the SO up when you can/must go up solo? What would be better than in the air alone w/a 12pk? Ok, maybe on the ground.

Isn't it some/most of the responsibility of the student to learn on thier own? Does the CFI have to teach them everything? Maybe solo should equal PPL.........maybe the gene pool would be a little cleaner.

Just a joke..........."gene's" get cleaner in a whirlpool.