Question for the Train Peeps

[SkyHog]

Another question for y'all. I was sitting near the engineer today, and I heard something that sounded a lot like an AWOS, but it was for track conditions. Said something like:

"N-M-R-X automated track report, (numbers), NO DEFECTS, repeat, NO DEFECTS."

What is that, and how does it work?

 

[jesse]

Another question for y'all. I was sitting near the engineer today, and I heard something that sounded a lot like an AWOS, but it was for track conditions. Said something like:

"N-M-R-X automated track report, (numbers), NO DEFECTS, repeat, NO DEFECTS."

What is that, and how does it work?

Sensors on the track that look at the train as it passes - I'm not sure what all it does but it does look at the temperature of the cars as they pass and will report a hot axle if there is an issue (brake stuck, etc).

 

[Pilawt]

Sensors on the track that look at the train as it passes - I'm not sure what all it does but it does look at the temperature of the cars as they pass and will report a hot axle if there is an issue (brake stuck, etc).

Hotbox detectors can detect problems with bearings and journals which can mean impending wheel/axle failure and possible derailment, so they take these things seriously.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

But mostly we were unsupervised kids with too much time and not enough opportunities for constructive behavior.

I guess now we know why you ended up a pilot.

 

[wabower]

Hey Keith, how many hot boxes do you see now? They became almost nonexistent after switching from the brass journals to roller bearings in the late 50's and early 60's when I worked freight service.

Probably an old switch to a siding no longer in use and pulled out. Makes a convenient derail, and if the siding is ever reconstructed, no need to buy a switch/frog/turnout. Just ballast, ties and rail.

 

[dmccormack]

I guess now we know why you ended up a pilot.

There ya go...

 

[Keith Lane]

Hotbox detectors can detect problems with bearings and journals which can mean impending wheel/axle failure and possible derailment, so they take these things seriously.

So much so that if a hot box detector gives an alarm the crew must stop the train immediately and inspect. The detector will give an announcement that "Alarm at axle 155" for example. The conductor then walks the train to find the axle. Imagine the fun of walking back to the rear of a 7,500 foot train in a Nebraska blizzard.

Hey Keith, how many hot boxes do you see now? They became almost nonexistent after switching from the brass journals to roller bearings in the late 50's and early 60's when I worked freight service.

Hot journals still pop up from time to time. The bearing technology has improved vastly. Most bearing failures seem to occur on cars that sit still for long periods of time, and moisture gets in behind the seals. It is a violation of FRA rules to perform any maintenance on a bearing without certification of your training in bearings. Kinda like having your A/P license. We do quite a bit of testing in our Omaha office of bearings. Some rolling tests run in the lab at 60 MPH under load for up to 3 months continuously. Very noisy, due to the cooling fans that simulate airflow of a moving train over the bearing surface. Currently the gross weight of most freight cars is 286,000 pounds. The railroads want to push it up to 315,000 as have many foreign iron ore railroads. That will bring more interesting bearing advances I'm sure.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Hey, Keith, those derail devices looked frighteningly portable (think terrorism). Without a sign marking their location, they'd be hard for an engineer to see. Tell me they have a way of detecting the presence of an unauthorized device on the main line.

I've got a train question, too: I've noticed that on a long two-mile stretch of track between two intersections in my area, the train will often stop--with just 10 yards or so of clearance between both intersections. Obviously, it's waiting for traffic to clear down track. But how do they stop the intersection gates from going down while the train is stopped, and then get them going again when the train is ready to move? Is this a remote override?

 

[wabower]

Lots of reasons for them to stop in town or on a passing track, some that are not obvious if you're looking at one end of the train and the engine is on the other. In addition to waiting for an oncoming train or waiting for a faster (or scheduled) train to pass, they could be dropping off or picking up cars at local businesses, or rearranging the order in cars in the train, or setting a string of cars aside for another train to pick up (perhaps one going the other way) or any number of activities normally categorized on the Santa Fe as "we've jus been out there switching box-cars".

A combination of city, county, state rules and ordinances and railroad policies usually determine the length of time a road can be blocked by the train. The dispatchers and train crews all know the length of the various passing tracks, and can comply with whatever regulations are in place. As all motorists know, however, it sometimes it doesn't work like that.

Hey, Keith, those derail devices looked frighteningly portable (think terrorism). Without a sign marking their location, they'd be hard for an engineer to see. Tell me they have a way of detecting the presence of an unauthorized device on the main line.

I've got a train question, too: I've noticed that on a long two-mile stretch of track between two intersections in my area, the train will often stop--with just 10 yards or so of clearance between both intersections. Obviously, it's waiting for traffic to clear down track. But how do they stop the intersection gates from going down while the train is stopped, and then get them going again when the train is ready to move? Is this a remote override?

 

[Keith Lane]

Hey, Keith, those derail devices looked frighteningly portable (think terrorism). Without a sign marking their location, they'd be hard for an engineer to see. Tell me they have a way of detecting the presence of an unauthorized device on the main line.

The short answer is no. But the tracks are inspected at least every 24 hours by an inspector in a Hy-Rail vehicle (pickup truck with rail wheels). People who have tried to derail trains usually resort to unbolting joint bars in areas where the rail still has joints, which is becoming less common as most mainline track is now continuously welded rail (CWR). Somebody did derail an AMTRAK train several years ago by unbolting the joint, and using a wire across the air gap to keep the track signals from being interrupted thereby alerting the dispatchers that there was a rail break. This was the key to determining it was a deliberate act.

I've got a train question, too: I've noticed that on a long two-mile stretch of track between two intersections in my area, the train will often stop--with just 10 yards or so of clearance between both intersections. Obviously, it's waiting for traffic to clear down track. But how do they stop the intersection gates from going down while the train is stopped, and then get them going again when the train is ready to move? Is this a remote override?

Crossing signal systems vary in design from vendor to vendor. The approach circuits to most gated & lighted crossings determining the speed of the approaching train and lower the gates to be down a minimum time prior to the arrival of the train. That way you won't have to wait an eternity for a 5 MPH train to even get to the crossing, but will have plenty of time to avoid getting sent on to the church eternal by an 80 MPH AMTRAK either. Most circuits will time out if they sense the train entered the circuit and did not get on the "Island circuit" which is very near the roadway. When the train wants to proceed, a crew member usually walks out and "man's the crossing" until the train fully blocks the intersection, and the gates will drop and the lights will activate.

 

[wabower]

My answer about passing tracks was just so you could grade my paper. After all these years I'm pleased to even remember the number of required rails.

Do you guys still have to "write the book" from time to time?

The short answer is no. But the tracks are inspected at least every 24 hours by an inspector in a Hy-Rail vehicle (pickup truck with rail wheels). People who have tried to derail trains usually resort to unbolting joint bars in areas where the rail still has joints, which is becoming less common as most mainline track is now continuously welded rail (CWR). Somebody did derail an AMTRAK train several years ago by unbolting the joint, and using a wire across the air gap to keep the track signals from being interrupted thereby alerting the dispatchers that there was a rail break. This was the key to determining it was a deliberate act.


Crossing signal systems vary in design from vendor to vendor. The approach circuits to most gated & lighted crossings determining the speed of the approaching train and lower the gates to be down a minimum time prior to the arrival of the train. That way you won't have to wait an eternity for a 5 MPH train to even get to the crossing, but will have plenty of time to avoid getting sent on to the church eternal by an 80 MPH AMTRAK either. Most circuits will time out if they sense the train entered the circuit and did not get on the "Island circuit" which is very near the roadway. When the train wants to proceed, a crew member usually walks out and "man's the crossing" until the train fully blocks the intersection, and the gates will drop and the lights will activate.

 

[Keith Lane]

My answer about passing tracks was just so you could grade my paper. After all these years I'm pleased to even remember the number of required rails.

Do you guys still have to "write the book" from time to time?

I'm not familiar with the term but then I'm not a railroad employee. I work for a railroad consulting firm. We do every conceivable type of work for railroads all over the planet. Accident investigations are a big part of what we do. If there is a significant railroad incident in the US (or Canada) we will have somebody there, often before the fires are out or the wreckage is cleared. We also do signal spacing studies, dynamic testing of cars, locomotives and track structures (I do the instrumentation). Also we run a huge number of simulations to determine fuel usage/savings, how many locomotives to pull how many tons over a given territory and such. All railroads want to run faster, longer and heavier trains. Lately I've been doing Solidworks drawings of rail car components for a rail car manufacturing facility in Russia to start production in 2011, with a capacity to produce 30 cars a day (in between trips to field jobs and such).

 

[wabower]

Are you covered by deceptive trade practice statute? The picture of you standing on that power unit could certainly be misleading, but then again I've never known of an engine-crew member wearing a hard hat.

Have you ever bumped into the CTEH toxicology teams from Little Rock? They are good guys (and clients) and work all (or most) the big hazmat wrecks for the class 1's and are on the beeper to leave for a wreck site within an hour of notification. Their King Air B-200 has been a huge part of their ongoing ability to be on site quickly.

FYI, engine and train crews were required to take a periodic open-book test of all the operating rules and write the answers in a big blue book like they use for law school exams. Since I was an extra-board trainman who was recalled every year, I had to do it more often than the regular hands. The term within the industry was "writing the book."



create a misleading

I'm not familiar with the term but then I'm not a railroad employee. I work for a railroad consulting firm. We do every conceivable type of work for railroads all over the planet. Accident investigations are a big part of what we do. If there is a significant railroad incident in the US (or Canada) we will have somebody there, often before the fires are out or the wreckage is cleared. We also do signal spacing studies, dynamic testing of cars, locomotives and track structures (I do the instrumentation). Also we run a huge number of simulations to determine fuel usage/savings, how many locomotives to pull how many tons over a given territory and such. All railroads want to run faster, longer and heavier trains. Lately I've been doing Solidworks drawings of rail car components for a rail car manufacturing facility in Russia to start production in 2011, with a capacity to produce 30 cars a day (in between trips to field jobs and such).