Question for NEW owners.

[brian]]

Ok, normally we ask the experienced folks about buying aircraft - time for us newbies to speak up. Questions:
- what finally convinced you to buy?
- why did you buy the aircraft you purchased?
- What was the process like?
- So how has the first year been?

Help out the next newbie and let us know what your first year was like..

 

[brian]]

Here’s my answers:

I got my PPL in 2006 - and it was mostly just as a distraction. Flying was something I did to get away from the daily grind we all have. Renting was fine for a long time. In about 2010 or so, I decided I really wanted to purchase as it was becoming a pain to plan far enough ahead to rent an aircraft for much more than a trip around the patch. Unfortunately, the economy finally caught up with business and I was done flying for a while. Then in 2012, I decided to give up flying entirely - why bother. Nasty habit anyway..

Well into 2013, I decided that I really did mis flying. I got the medical and BFR and started renting again. Then I decided I had the money in place for a Piper 140. I had flown them before and I was checking out a couple of C172 options and one AA5A that looked promising. When I went to look at a Piper 140 I found that it had sold just a few hours before I arrived at the field. On a whim, I asked to take a ride in a 1948 Bonanza. Well, that was a mistake - they really are fun. I ran the numbers and decided that if I could get 5 years out of the aircraft, it was worth the risk.

The process was gut wrenching. Who in their right mind buys a 65 year old anything - let alone an airplane that old? Well, I did. It checked out and I added a couple of STCs that seem to enhance safety. But even saying that I wasn’t a doctor just wasn’t getting me as comfortable with the aircraft as I needed to fully enjoy it. So I hired a BPPP (Bonanza CFI/tainer) to help. After some frustration on his part and a number of lazy 8’s, etc. I finally decided that the wings of my aircraft were not going to spontaneously fall off.

Now I’m having fun. I travel the 4 hours or so to see my elderly mom or the few minutes to a local fly-in. I get a little R&R and some utility. A good match. I also have an excellent IFR/complex trainer that will help if I ever decide to buy something more advanced for business. Basically, a better match for me than the Piper I was looking at before.

So - who’s next?

 

[Unit74]

Ok, normally we ask the experienced folks about buying aircraft - time for us newbies to speak up. Questions:
- what finally convinced you to buy?
- why did you buy the aircraft you purchased?
- What was the process like?
- So how has the first year been?

Help out the next newbie and let us know what your first year was like..

- I sold a rental house and made a lot of money
- I got my SEL INS in type
- about like buying a house
- it's awesome getting up say saying, I thnk I'll go drag her out and go some where without wondering if someone is already up doing doughnuts in the pattern with my normal rental. Or, jumping in the plane and leaving for two weeks not having to pay min hours while she sits on the ground.

 

[Grum.Man]

For me it was an easy decision. My take on a PPL is what's the point unless you are going to own an airplane, or do it for a living. So I bought mine off a craigslist ad knowing it would need some work. It served it's purpose and got me my PPL. Shortly after I had to overhaul the engine, replace some fuel lines, overhaul the radios, new baffles, new exhaust, new battery, new starter, and a new alternator.

I expected most of that going into the purchase as the airplane hadn't been flown much though it was still in annual. However I now have my PPL and an airplane that has a zero time engine and most of the important stuff is brand new or overhauled. Since I bought it cheap I don't need to carry full coverage on insurance. Since it isn't pretty I don't feel the need for an enclosed hanger so it stays in a t-hanger.

As a full disclosure my father is an A&P so that saved me tons of money. Had he not been I would have looked at something in better shape. As for why I bought my 71 Grumman AA1... well it was cheap. Everyone is afraid of them for no real good reason so they can be bought cheaper than just about any certified 2 seat aircraft. It's faster than a Cessna 150 by at least 10 knts on the same fuel burn. It's way more fun to fly than any Cessna or Piper. It can be flown with the canopy slid back which makes summer flying much more enjoyable. And the fact that I live and fly in areas from 1k feet field elevation or less the climb performance hasn't been an issue.

My only tips to someone buying an airplane... especially and older one are.

Just because it's in annual, doesn't mean it doesn't have issues. You still need a good inspection by an independent party that has no connection with the airplane. I have yet to meet someone that bought an old airplane that didn't find some issues that should have been caught on a proper annual.

Avoid aircraft that are old, with low time. Now obviously you don't want a worn out airplane either, but mechanical systems do not like to sit. Furthermore an airplane that isn't flown much could be an airplane that has had lots of issues keeping it from flying.

And fly the airplane at least an hour before buying. That way you can check oil usage, and all the avionics that may fail after getting up to temperature.

 

[brian]]

- I sold a rental house and made a lot of money
- I got my SEL INS in type
- about like buying a house
- it's awesome getting up say saying, I thnk I'll go drag her out and go some where without wondering if someone is already up doing doughnuts in the pattern with my normal rental. Or, jumping in the plane and leaving for two weeks not having to pay min hours while she sits on the ground.

Conway? I'm over in Cabot ... What up??!

 

[Grum.Man]

I do have one more tip. Determine what you can afford to buy, and multiply it by .75. Best case you saved a little money, worst case you end up with a plane you thought you could afford in the end and not a ramp queen.

 

[Archammer]

Dammit, I read this, and now I've been sitting here for an hour looking for a plane to buy again!!!

Great stuff so far. Ok back to barnstormin.

 

[Grum.Man]

Dammit, I read this, and now I've been sitting here for an hour looking for a plane to buy again!!!

Great stuff so far. Ok back to barnstormin.

The best deals can be found on airport bulletin boards, or word of mouth through EAA groups or other pilots. My father has had luck in the past writing N numbers down of airplanes with flat tires and dust covered wings and writing a letter to the owner. But be prepared to do some major repairs.

 

[Flyhound]

I bought because you can't rent the kind of plane I'm flying. Taildraggers are almost impossible to find on the rental market. If you do find one, it is usually a Citabria, or a Champ. One is for acro, the other is for basic tailwheel instruction. Both are cramped 2 seaters. I wanted a 4 place taildragger that could haul me, my wife, our dog and all of our stuff on camping trips into short grass strips in the outback. We also take the plane on more civilized vacations, but we could have done that with almost any plane. The backcountry airplane camping meant a Maule and if I wanted to fly one, I had to buy one. Pretty simple really.

 

[CTLSi]

My wife decided she wanted to become a Sport Pilot. She started her training in a Flight Design in a flight school. When she was halfway thru her training, we ordered a Flight Design CTLSi and the plane arrived and she was able to take her checkride in it.

I have a Private Pilot SEL.

We plan to upgrade from the SLSA CTLSi when the Flight Design C4 (4-seater certified) comes out and we are in the queue to get one of those once that happens.

 

[wrbix]

My Grumman Tiger seems to have found me rather than vice versa - a circuitous route on Grumman Gang led me to the PO who really had all but forgotten that he mentioned possibly selling it..... Karma, Kizmet, devine guidance, blind luck?

Completed the sale just a few weeks before my Check Ride after a PreBuy assisted by Savvy Maintenance morphed into Annual w CorrosionX.

Admittedly paid the Seller price, a bit higher than apparent Market, but time to me is more precious than $ - at my age. At my age also clearly buying my last airplane first.

Hardest thing to accomplish was the Insurance mandated Transition Training -finding an AA5X experienced CFI with open schedule and working around summer convection.

Used Aerospace for the Title Search, Escrow, contract, etc - really made it painless.

Now I can get up in the morning and decide whether to go for a few hour bicycle ride or go flying, convection permitting - can't wait until fall!

Nothing but good things to say about Savvy Maintenance - money well spent for the first time owner IMO.

 

[Unit74]

Conway? I'm over in Cabot ... What up??!

Yep....can't wait till the new airport opens too. I can land and take off in the first 1/3 of the new runway. No more dodging the water tower on approach to 36 or watching people duck on the the I40 when I land or take off.

I looked hard at a 172 in Searcy. Price was hard to walk from but I found my cream puff and can't be happier. You know Shane L. over at the Airbase? C130 driver.

 

[frfly172]

Being an old timer ,who has owned several aircraft,I'm hurt that my input is not wanted. Such a shame that the old are no longer needed.

 

[Unit74]

Being an old timer ,who has owned several aircraft,I'm hurt that my input is not wanted. Such a shame that the old are no longer needed.

Don't worry.... The coffeepot at the FOB is still on....

 

[Morgan3820]

Ok, normally we ask the experienced folks about buying aircraft - time for us newbies to speak up. Questions:
- what finally convinced you to buy?
- why did you buy the aircraft you purchased?
- What was the process like?
- So how has the first year been?

Help out the next newbie and let us know what your first year was like..

I had been out of flying for a very long time. Went sailing instead. By chance I picked up a business card of a local CFI who got me back flying and current. I had always wanted a plane. renting is so limiting to me. I kept hearing that I need to fly 100hrs/yr to make plane ownership work. If you do the math you will find that this is BS. Due to a week at the local flying camp I found out that my teenage daughter was very interested in flying small planes. I started to look for someone to partner with a plane. After a long search turned up nothing, my Wife suggest that I should go it alone. So after another long search I purchased a 1976 Warrior -161. But much more importantly I found a free-lance AP/AI to help me in the purchase process and lower my maintenance costs by allowing me to do work under his supervision, this has been a huge help. Fortunately, I work at military aircraft repair depot, so I know a little about what works and what does not with aircraft. I picked the Piper because everything being equal, the Piper is $8-10K cheaper. I like Cessna products fine, even considered a C170 but was concerned about ground loops and as a trainer for my daughter I felt that the Warrior would be a better fit. I have flown XC of up to 350 miles. So far I am happy with my purchase. My first annual is coming up so we shall see what comes from that. My fixed costs are around $200/month. This covers an open T-hanger, insurance and $400 for an owner assist annual. Currently, these cost are covered by selling time to a local pilot.

Buying was very stressful for me because of the fear of the financial commitment and fear stemming from all of the horror stories of aircraft ownership found on this and other forums. So far it has worked out and the fears have been, so far, unrealized. Airplanes do cost, but if one is willing to do without the new car purchase it is quite doable.

The plane gives me a lot of quality time with my Daughter, even if it is just washing and waxing the plane like we did today. We have a bond because she likes to fly and she can only do that with me, her Dad. Safety is always top of the list and I try to pass that onto her. Soon I expect to start my IR training and soon my Daughter will start on her PPL.

I hope that this helps

 

[LDJones]

I bought because you can't rent the kind of plane I'm flying. Taildraggers are almost impossible to find on the rental market. If you do find one, it is usually a Citabria, or a Champ. One is for acro, the other is for basic tailwheel instruction. Both are cramped 2 seaters. I wanted a 4 place taildragger that could haul me, my wife, our dog and all of our stuff on camping trips into short grass strips in the outback. We also take the plane on more civilized vacations, but we could have done that with almost any plane. The backcountry airplane camping meant a Maule and if I wanted to fly one, I had to buy one. Pretty simple really.

Sweet looking old dog! My recently departed Beagle was a great air traveler. Miss our four-legged traveling companion.

 

[iflyvfr]

Sweet looking old dog! My recently departed Beagle was a great air traveler. Miss our four-legged traveling companion.

With apologies to the pilot, I'm not sure its age that's got her down...

 

[denverpilot]

Being an old timer ,who has owned several aircraft,I'm hurt that my input is not wanted. Such a shame that the old are no longer needed.

LOL. I was wondering how "new" new had to be. I guess after a year of ownership you forget so much you're useless.

 

[docmirror]

Ok, normally we ask the experienced folks about buying aircraft - time for us newbies to speak up. Questions:
- what finally convinced you to buy?
- why did you buy the aircraft you purchased?
- What was the process like?
- So how has the first year been?

I can hark back to 2006 for my first(second) airplane purchase. My first(first) plane purchase was back in the 70s and I was soooooo stoopid I won't go there.

My purchase decision was based on two things. There were no decent 4 place fast rental planes within an hour drive from me. I wanted to load up, pre-flight, get in and go with the family and the whole rental deal was going to be a full anal examination. Buy, and fly, and I could afford it.

I looked at a bunch of stuff that fit my mission, and the old Bonanza was not even on the list. Of course, the entire flying population says 'get a 182'. Bah - not remotely interested in a 182, and if you take offense at that, tough spit. I knew I preferred a mogas plane, and I wanted to go pretty fast. Limitations. I started looking at the older Bonanza, and everything I would compare it to came up lacking, with the exception of the loading graph which can be tricky on the Bo. As a bonus, the old planes love mogas. So I focused on those, and after about 20 minutes behind the yoke, I was sold, sold, sold on a Bonanza. It fit my mission perfectly, and they are just hot looking planes.

The process to get the plane I bought was a mess. I looked at everything out there. From brokers, to refurbished, to ragged out of annual fixer-uppers. Finally, I found one in CA that met all the criteria I wanted, and needed paint, which is something I could work on myself. So, I spent at least $800 in the search and got what I wanted. No surprises on purchase.

The first has(past tense, 2006) been a bit rough. I had to replace a jug after 9 months, and come to expect that now. I found a mistake in the xpndr wiring, and I found several oil leaks which is common for the breed. The learning curve is very steep for the first 15 hours. After that, the cheeks unclenched and I started to stay ahead of the plane in all flight situations. After 20 hours, it was a piece of cake. My CFI said he'd never seen anyone come back from a long layoff with such ease. I really wasn't a problem in the air, but the mx was a bit rough. Still - way, way worth the trouble and cost of ownership. I'm gonna hop in tomorrow am, and in less than 2 hours be at my kids place which would normally be an all day drive. Yeah babeeeee.

 

[kenjr]

I bought into a 4 way partnership about 5 hours into my PPL. I knew I wanted to buy into a Cherokee...probably a 180...but I happened to see a posting on the bulletin board at my school for an open spot in a 235.

For me it was for several reasons.

1) I wanted to train in what I was going to fly around. Creature of habit and it was a bit of an insurance policy for me in a way. I've done all but 5 hours of my flying in that plane and know it very well now. I feel good about that.

2) Even with 4 of us, in almost 2 years there has never been a scheduling conflict. One of the guys flys so infrequently that if he wants the plane we just let him have it. He really only takes about 3 trips a year that are 1-2 weeks long. I didn't want to have to deal with rental plane schedules and working around weather and my own schedule. This coming weekend is a perfect example. I'm thinking about heading out to El Paso to visit my sister but not sure of the weather. I don't have to worry about when and for how long to rent a plane nor do I have to stress about making sure I get it back on time. Another bit of an insurance policy for me...takes the 'get-there-itis' out of the equation. As long as I have my laptop and my cell phone with me I can stop anywhere, get a hotel and get my job done.

3) Pride of ownership. It's pretty f'ing awesome to drive to the airport and pull your own plane out of the hangar. I also like flying something that I know only a few people are using and they all take as good care of it as I do. I also like knowing exactly what's been done to the plane and the fact that we do some owner assist stuff and in a lot of cases know the works been done right because we've done it ourselves.

It's probably not cost effective for me...I haven't done the long math on it but it would have most likely made more fiscal sense for me to just rent with the number of hours I'll fly per year...probably around 80-100 or so. But, I can afford it so I did it. No regrets from me...I doubt you'll have any either. I can tell you that it's a helluva lot easier and more fun to buy into a partnership if your mission doesn't require exclusive access to the plane. The camaraderie is great and it's an awesome learning experience the first time around to do with some folks who have already been around the block. One of these days I'll own my own plane but I'm glad that I can learn now and only pay for 1/4th of costs.

 

[charheep]

Conway? I'm over in Cabot ... What up??!

My dad lives in Conway (actually Guy) and I just flew into KCWS. They said it was going to be demolished and a new airport is almost done with longer runways on the other side of town. Anyone check it out yet?

 

[Unit74]

Yes. I have done many fly overs. It's going to be pretty nice as long as the fog stays at bay.

 

[GLLinMO]

Ok, normally we ask the experienced folks about buying aircraft - time for us newbies to speak up. Questions:
- what finally convinced you to buy?
- why did you buy the aircraft you purchased?
- What was the process like?
- So how has the first year been?

Help out the next newbie and let us know what your first year was like..

- Rental planes were not a real viable option for me. OK for a 1-2 hour block. But that's about it. Where I trained rentals were pretty much for training only. Scheduling is hard to fit in. Limited to 172 or 182. And rental prices increased about 25% in the last 2 years.

Have to add that I recieved my PPL in April. At the begining, I have thoughts of owning my own plane. I enjoy "ownership" aspects with my cycles and cars, so wanted to do the same with a plane. We're talking base entry level plane here. Objective to fly, be a better pilot and get IFR and do some short XC trips.

- '65 Cherokee 180. It fit my needs and "mission". Was owned by a person that took great care of it. conditon and equipment fit what I was looking for. Would have liked to have an early Bonanza, but a Cherokee makes much more sense right now.

- Process was great. Plane I ended up buying was not formally advertised. Found via word of mouth on a Forum. Collective, every persone I talked to about there plane was great - loved to talk planes, either theirs ir provide input on other options. Did a combo prebuy- annual self assist with owner and a couple of A&P's. Owner wanted me to know the plane. Worked great, saved me bucks, and I have a better feel for the plane.

- I have only had the plane a month. So still early. Will add LED landing light and shoulder harness. Local IA where I keep my plane is also very helpful and great to work with. More $$ will be coming I am sure. But to me, owning a solid entry level plane makes more sense than renting.

 

[brian]]

....
3) Pride of ownership. It's pretty f'ing awesome to drive to the airport and pull your own plane out of the hangar. I also like flying something that I know only a few people are using and they all take as good care of it as I do. I also like knowing exactly what's been done to the plane and the fact that we do some owner assist stuff and in a lot of cases know the works been done right because we've done it ourselves.

....

There are a LOT of horror stories out there that punch up the anxiety associated with ownership - especially for a newbie. But the above pretty much sums up what makes it worth the effort.

 

[Grum.Man]

The other benefit to owning your own airplane is the relationships you form with other owners. Leave your hangar door open while rubbing on the airplane on the weekend and I guarantee you will meet someone new.

 

[BigBadLou]

What convinced me? - For me, it was simple math. Owning is much cheaper than renting when getting a PPL and IR.
Why the Cherokee 140? - I found a smoking deal that I could not pass up.
Process - Pretty painless, surprisingly. The PO is a nice gentleman, ex-LE, easy to deal with, straight, forthcoming, helpful, simply great.
First year? - Great year. First half a year was fun training, then fun flying. She's been treating me well and it goes both ways.

Once I am done with IR training, I will likely trade up to something faster and retractable that I can take farther.

Funny tidbit: when calling for insurance (airport management requires it), the nice lady on the phone asked "how many hours in type?" - "0, ma'am" - "mmmkay, how many hours total?" - "officially? err, 0" - "ohhhhh-kaaaay" "I bought this airplane to train in to get my PPL" - "gotcha"
After the first year, when I renewed my policy, I got a substantial discount since I had plenty of hours total and in type.

 

[mnewb1]

1) I have wanted to own and fly a plane for years. I finished my private in 2006, but the rental options around me weren't great and even though I am a "rich" doctor, massive medical school loan repayment a mortgage, new practice, and raising a young family did not leave any spare cash....so I let the flying bug go. Jump to 2013 and the situation was somewhat better and I could start to dream again

2) why a Cherokee 180...well, I was all over the place when I started looking, but I realized in the end a fixed place four seater would probably be the best approach...a good friend of mine had been done flying for about 4 years and considering selling the plane I eventually bought, but I could see he wasn't totally ready to let go yet...So I joined a flying club which was all right, good bunch of guys they had some cool planes including a Cardinal which was fun to fly, but with a tight work schedule it could be touch and go to get the plane when I had open time and hope the weather held.

3) the process for me took an unexpected turn, I was looking at a few planes, got logs to go though on a few which turned up problems I didn't want to deal with, and I was working with Savvy Aviation at this point to go through logs and thank goodness I did, I would highly recommend their pre-buy service to any new buyer. I saw a couple that were real interesting, but as I was looking very closely at one of these, I got a call from my friend who was ready to sell now, and I voiced concerns over a plane that had not flown in a few years...I expressed interest but only after a pre-buy, but he countered with a selling price on the plane that I could not pass up, no pre-buy, he was done just take it off his hands...it was so good I had to say yes...he was very confident that the plane and engine were sound, and with the price he offered, even if it had not been I could easily have recouped my money...so I took it.

4) First year: I am in my first three months with 12 hours in her so far....no major problems, I did have to replace a jug when we did the annual...and I have a replacement comm with a few bugs still in it, but she has flown great, no engine problems. When I brought her in on a windy bumpy Sunday morning and landing on the crosswind short runway at my home field, I still managed a pretty decent landing...I knew I had made the right choice in pane for a low hour pilot new to ownership.

 

[Morgan3820]

"...even though I am a "rich" doctor".

Stay away from Bonanzas when it is time to upgrade. Just sayin...

Pretty plane