Question about TetraEthyl Lead

[Aeric]

The dangers of lead absorption through the skin are obvious but I was wondering if, after 100LL has evaporated, is there lead residue? It would seem as though TEL evaporates completely, leaving nothing behind, assuming it was spilled on a non-porous surface.

 

[kgruber]

No. TEL does not evaporate. It is left as a deposit.

 

[Henning]

The dangers of lead absorption through the skin are obvious but I was wondering if, after 100LL has evaporated, is there lead residue? It would seem as though TEL evaporates completely, leaving nothing behind, assuming it was spilled on a non-porous surface.

Yes, and if you like you can see a sample of it in a fine white dust over a shiny metal surface behind my engines in Atlanta. The Augmentors are a great way to see what running LOP gets you, clean internals and engines that go the distance.

 

[MAKG1]

It's amazing how little we need to clean car carburetors after the switch to unleaded fuel.

Those of us with 5 hands and tiny fingers who like to fiddle with tiny balls and springs and bent rods still break down and clean carbs at every tune up. But it really isn't necessary anymore.

Gasoline still has a residue, but nothing like it used to be.

 

[jesse]

It's amazing how little we need to clean car carburetors after the switch to unleaded fuel.

Those of us with 5 hands and tiny fingers who like to fiddle with tiny balls and springs and bent rods still break down and clean carbs at every tune up. But it really isn't necessary anymore.

Gasoline still has a residue, but nothing like it used to be.

You make it sound like there are a lot of people still driving behind carbureted cars..

 

[Geico266]

The dangers of lead absorption through the skin are obvious but I was wondering if, after 100LL has evaporated, is there lead residue? It would seem as though TEL evaporates completely, leaving nothing behind, assuming it was spilled on a non-porous surface.

I wish more people / pilots believed that.

I started a thread about lead being absorbed through the skin and got a bunch of guff for it. Women of child bearing age especially should avoid all skin contact with 100ll and all gas for that matter.

 

[Aeric]

I wish more people / pilots believed that.

I started a thread about lead being absorbed through the skin and got a bunch of guff for it. Women of child bearing age especially should avoid all skin contact with 100ll and all gas for that matter.

Lead is an insidious, nasty substance, but I still wonder about evaporation of TEL. I've read medical accounts of lead poisoning in people who have sniffed leaded gasoline. That would indicate that it is a volatile substance. I've seen the white residue behind the exhaust on my airplane, but I was thinking that this was after the stuff did it's thing in the heat of combustion.

 

[Dan Thomas]

You make it sound like there are a lot of people still driving behind carbureted cars..

The owners of vintage machines do, and the operators of much older gasoline-powered machinery, and many boats, still do. Our aircraft tug was an 18-hp Bolens garden tractor, and we fed it 100LL. The carb would get plugged with lead deposits.

There are four times the TEL in 100LL as in the old leaded Mogas or 80 Avgas. Fouls the tiny passages in auto carbs.

Dan

 

[Tom-D]

100LL. The carb would get plugged with lead deposits.

There are four times the TEL in 100LL as in the old leaded Mogas or 80 Avgas. Fouls the tiny passages in auto carbs.

Dan

How can it do that ? TEL does not come out of solution until the white gas stock evaporates, and the gas does not evaporite until it is delivered into the intake system, if it does then, why aren't our intake pipes white when we remove them.

Try this experiment

Place a piece of window glass on a black rag, lay it in the sun and place a few drops of 100LL on it and see what happens, see what is left after the white fuel stocks evaporite.


Lead does not turn white until after it is burned.

 

[AcroBoy]

Tetraethyl lead is a liquid at room temperature, and has a boiling point below that of water. It will evaporate but not leave a residue. I recall it can also be absorbed through the skin, so inhalation as well as skin contact can lead to toxicity.

 

[Tom-D]

Tetraethyl lead is a liquid at room temperature, and has a boiling point below that of water. It will evaporate but not leave a residue. I recall it can also be absorbed through the skin, so inhalation as well as skin contact can lead to toxicity.

It can be absorbed thru the skin, and is collective in your liver, it will never leave, what you got 25 years ago, you still have.

 

[Aeric]

I appreciate the responses. One thing for sure, I will continue to avoid getting 100LL on my skin. I do kinda like the smell though, but even smelling the stuff is not a good thing

 

[Dan Thomas]

It can be absorbed thru the skin, and is collective in your liver, it will never leave, what you got 25 years ago, you still have.

No wonder I weigh so much...

Dan

 

[Dan Thomas]

How can it do that ? TEL does not come out of solution until the white gas stock evaporates, and the gas does not evaporite until it is delivered into the intake system, if it does then, why aren't our intake pipes white when we remove them.

Of those tiny passages in smaller auto carbs, and more specifically in small engine carbs, one delivers air to aerate the fuel going to the idle nozzle and another passage deliver the aerated fuel. Those are the passages that get lead deposits. The idle fuel outlet itself can get lead buildup around it.

If it wasn't lead I was cleaning out of that carb, I don't know what it was. Larger carbs have larger passages that don't seem to accumulate this stuff. This engine was burning the same gasoline we were feeding the airplanes, and wasn't contaminated in any way.

Dan

 

[MAKG1]

You make it sound like there are a lot of people still driving behind carbureted cars..

Some of us live where road salt isn't used, and old vehicles are not unusual sights.

I still see the occasional International Scout on the road. One local guy even uses a Model A pickup to haul wood.

And many, many small engines (lawnmowers, chainsaws, generators, etc.) are carbureted.

As for evaporation in the carb, there are several air inlets; it is the carb that is responsible for making the mixture. And everywhere fluid has to flow, there needs to be an air bleed (like the float bowl).

 

[Tom-D]

Of those tiny passages in smaller auto carbs, and more specifically in small engine carbs, one delivers air to aerate the fuel going to the idle nozzle and another passage deliver the aerated fuel. Those are the passages that get lead deposits. The idle fuel outlet itself can get lead buildup around it.

If it wasn't lead I was cleaning out of that carb, I don't know what it was. Larger carbs have larger passages that don't seem to accumulate this stuff. This engine was burning the same gasoline we were feeding the airplanes, and wasn't contaminated in any way.

Dan

Until lead is burned, it is totally invisible to us.

I have no idea what you are seeing, but it isn't lead.

The air drawn thru those passageways is the same air that flows thru the Venturi, and we both know that our aircraft air-filters are not that great.

 

[Henning]

How can it do that ? TEL does not come out of solution until the white gas stock evaporates, and the gas does not evaporite until it is delivered into the intake system, if it does then, why aren't our intake pipes white when we remove them.

Try this experiment

Place a piece of window glass on a black rag, lay it in the sun and place a few drops of 100LL on it and see what happens, see what is left after the white fuel stocks evaporite.


Lead does not turn white until after it is burned.

Well that's just it, think about the duty cycle of a lawn mower. In usage season it gets parked hot a couple of times a week, tightly shrouded and put in a closed, confined area, perfect for boiling away gas in the bowl, then it sits several months off season or through the summer drought cooking away in the shed. Lawn mower engines see hard duty life cycles.

 

[weilke]

Well that's just it, think about the duty cycle of a lawn mower. In usage season it gets parked hot a couple of times a week, tightly shrouded and put in a closed, confined area, perfect for boiling away gas in the bowl, then it sits several months off season or through the summer drought cooking away in the shed. Lawn mower engines see hard duty life cycles.

Yet without fail, 1 pull and my Toro fires up in the spring, same with the snow-blower in the winter. I wish Lycoming hired the guy who designs the ignition systems for Briggs&Stratton and Tecumseh.

 

[N801BH]

Of those tiny passages in smaller auto carbs, and more specifically in small engine carbs, one delivers air to aerate the fuel going to the idle nozzle and another passage deliver the aerated fuel. Those are the passages that get lead deposits. The idle fuel outlet itself can get lead buildup around it.

If it wasn't lead I was cleaning out of that carb, I don't know what it was. Larger carbs have larger passages that don't seem to accumulate this stuff. This engine was burning the same gasoline we were feeding the airplanes, and wasn't contaminated in any way.

Dan

Hmmmm... I have been running 100LL in my mowers, 5 out of six of my snowmobiles, chainsaws and weedeaters for 20 years... I do that since it doesn't go bad and the season for each motors use is so short I don't want to flush out each carb and use Stabil several times a year.

 

[N801BH]

It can be absorbed thru the skin, and is collective in your liver, it will never leave, what you got 25 years ago, you still have.

You are probably right too...

I spent half my life with my arms submerged in a safely clean parts washer.. It is a wonder I am still alive.

 

[Henning]

You are probably right too...

I spent half my life with my arms submerged in a safely clean parts washer.. It is a wonder I am still alive.

I know right? Especially the old Safety Clean fluid that made you tingle. Funny thing though I had all sorts of physical and bloodwork done including a calcium heart scan and I am completely fine. Even my hearing test in the box, excellent, that really blows my mind as abusive to hearing as I have been.

 

[Sac Arrow]

It can be absorbed thru the skin, and is collective in your liver, it will never leave, what you got 25 years ago, you still have.

I'm living proof you can survive without a functional liver.

 

[JHW]

Hmmmm... I have been running 100LL in my mowers, 5 out of six of my snowmobiles, chainsaws and weedeaters for 20 years... I do that since it doesn't go bad and the season for each motors use is so short I don't want to flush out each carb and use Stabil several times a year.

same here, never a carb problem. That's exactly why I winterize those engines with 100LL, to prevent fuel system issues. I end up having to pick lead off the spark plugs but that's to be expected.