Question about PPL Written and Oral Tests

[mjburian]

I took my PPL written test yesterday and passed. Actually, I (somehow) got a 100 on it. I have two questions I'm hoping you guys can help me out with:

1) It is my understanding that the better you do on your written test, the easier your oral exam should be. However, does the fact that I got 100 on the written open me up to more grilling on the oral?

2) During my studying for the written test, I used (among other things) two test prep books. One was by Sporty's and the other was by ASA. I happened to notice that the two books disagreed on the answer to at least one question. I checked a few other resources and still don't have a consensus on what the *real* answer should be. Luckily, the question wasn't on my written test... but I'd still like to know which answer is correct.

Here is the test question and the answers provided by the various resources I was able to check:

The section of the Area Forecast entitled 'VFR CLDS/ WX' contains a general description of:

A - cloudiness and weather significant to flight operations broken down by states or other geographical areas.
B - forecast sky cover, cloud tops, visibility, and obstructions to vision along specific routes.
C - clouds and weather which cover an area greater than 3,000 square miles and is significant to VFR flight operations.


Sporty's Online Practice Test:
Correct Answer: A - cloudiness and weather significant to flight operations broken down by states or other geographical areas.

ASA Test Prep Book:
Correct Answer: C - clouds and weather which cover an area greater than 3,000 square miles and is significant to VFR flight operations.

Batavia Aviation Test Prep Book (by Sporty's):
Correct Answer: A - cloudiness and weather significant to flight operations broken down by states or other geographical areas.

Jeppesen Private Pilot (Ground School Book):
Area Forecasts describe clouds and weather which could affect VFR operations over an area of 3,000 square miles or more.
(Sounds like Answer C to me)

Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge:
AREA FORECASTS (FA)
The aviation area forecast (FA) gives a picture of clouds, general weather conditions, and visual meteorological conditions (VMC) expected over a large area encompassing several states.
(Sounds like Answer A to me)

I also called AOPA, and although the guy I spoke to didn't which was the correct answer off-hand, had access to the Gleim Supplement to Private Pilot Knowledge Test Book. And, according to Gleim, the answer above is C.

So, out of 6 resources checked there seems to be a 3-3 tie as to which answer is correct. Had the question been on my written test, I would have answered according to the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, since that is an FAA publication... but why the disagreement on the correct answer?

 

[flyersfan31]

I'm going with (c).

If you don't prep for your oral, and walk in flashing the 100, and you stumble on the first few questions, the examiner will be on you like stink on ginko.

Word is a high score helps, which makes sense. My examiner looked at my score (100), said, "well we probably won't need to spend a lot of time on this," but we still spent probably 20-30mins on the oral.

It's all about preparation.

Good luck (and congratulations on the score).

 

[dmccormack]

If you don't prep for your oral, and walk in flashing the 100, and you stumble on the first few questions, the examiner will be on you like stink on ginko.

Absolutely correct.

Though it's better to walk in with 100% than 70%.



Now is time to set the test prep books aside, grab the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook and Pilot's Encyclopedia of Aeronautical Knowledge, concentrate on those and fly as often as possible.

 

[poadeleted20]

1) It is my understanding that the better you do on your written test, the easier your oral exam should be. However, does the fact that I got 100 on the written open me up to more grilling on the oral?

Based on my experience over the last two years with examiners everywhere from Detroit to New England to the Carolinas, generally speaking, examiners don't look at the score other than to see if you passed. They have their own routine for the oral, and they'll follow it pretty much regardless of what you got on the written.

2) During my studying for the written test, I used (among other things) two test prep books. One was by Sporty's and the other was by ASA. I happened to notice that the two books disagreed on the answer to at least one question. I checked a few other resources and still don't have a consensus on what the *real* answer should be.

Examiners who are following the FAA's guidance on the "proper" conduct of the oral portion are not doing these canned Q&A sessions any more, so the canned answers won't help you much on the oral, which is now supposed to be situationally based. That means they'll ask you specific questions related to the flight you planned, not general questions or abstract hypotheticals, which is why the examiner won't ask you the following question:

The section of the Area Forecast entitled 'VFR CLDS/ WX' contains a general description of:

A - cloudiness and weather significant to flight operations broken down by states or other geographical areas.
B - forecast sky cover, cloud tops, visibility, and obstructions to vision along specific routes.
C - clouds and weather which cover an area greater than 3,000 square miles and is significant to VFR flight operations.

...and most definitely won't make it multiple choice. In order to test your knowledge in this area, the examiner will instead ask a question like, "What do you think the weather will be generally along your intended route of flight, and how did you determine that?" S/he will be expecting you to pull out the Area Forecast portion of your briefing materials, point out the sections appropriate to your route of flight, and produce a cogent description of the enroute weather based on those data.

Thus, it doesn't matter what those various folks say is the "correct" one of those multiple choices, because that isn't how you'll be tested on the practical test. And, when you think about it, that's appropriate, because whether it's A or C really doesn't make much difference in how you approach the use of the Area Forecast in your flight planning and go/no-go decision making process.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The oral is a little different since if you don't know the answer, you can still answer the question correctly if you can quickly look it up in the appropriate place (I do not mean items that require a critically fast response, of course).

For example, the examiner wil point to an item on the sectional and ask what the item represents. It is likely to be an uncommon item such as the symbol for an NDB with a blue square in the middle. You are allowed (and expected) to use the chart legend to determine it is an NDB with DME. You can likewise use the FAR-AIM or POH as well.

You are showing that you know the basics and how to find other information you may need.

 

[flyersfan31]

Thus, it doesn't matter what those various folks say is the "correct" one of those multiple choices, because that isn't how you'll be tested on the practical test. And, when you think about it, that's appropriate, because whether it's A or C really doesn't make much difference in how you approach the use of the Area Forecast in your flight planning and go/no-go decision making process.

Which is why the written, while interesting, is of dubious value, other than to prove your command of FAA minutiae. The real testing happens in the oral.

 

[RMCN172RG]

In my exam I cam in with one wrong and the oral bounced around a little on everything.

My impression of his process was to ask a few questions in all areas then go into more obscure questions or specifics. (Rare items on Chart, etc.)

Seemd to end real quickly after I actually admitted I didn't know the answer then showed that I knew how and where to look it up.

Good Lick

 

[rottydaddy]

The responses above should give you a good idea what to expect, but here's a nutshell description of how mine went, when I showed up with a 98 (or was it 99? I got one wrong):

The oral is very different. The written was easy for me largely because the questions were familiar (not that I simply tried to memorize the sample test answers).

The DE will poke around in your head, looking for gaps or mistaken impressions.

The only advice I got from my CFI prior to the oral was "just answer 'yes' or 'no' where applicable; do not elaborate"... and I forgot that quickly... to the point where the DE picked up a pen and asked me if I knew what it was. I answered "a pen" twice before he sighed and said, "the answer is 'yes'. ..".


But I did OK despite that.

The fact that you can refer to your POH and FAR/AIM during the oral is useful... you will do well to know where to look for the info; it seems more important than having memorized all that stuff. I only dove in there a couple of times, and the DE seemed pleased that I thumbed straight to the appropriate chapters.

Aside from the "keep the answers simple" and "know your chapters" advice, I'll suggest you remember that the DE is not there to weed out non-supermen; he or she is there to help you; to teach you. If you stumble, or your oral takes longer than you'd expected, don't feel bad about it- learn from it.

 

[dmccormack]

The oral is very different. The written was easy for me largely because the questions were familiar (not that I simply tried to memorize the sample test answers).

{some snipped}

The DE will poke around in your head, looking for gaps or mistaken impressions.

And that is as it should be.

The FAA publishes all the Knowledge exam questions. With enough time anyone bright enough to fly can memorize the answers to 90% or more of the test making it a 10 question test.

Therefore at some point there needs to be a gatekeeper (besides the CFI) who certifies that the candidate "knows/understands/comprehends" the required content to the point he or she will fit into the National Airspace System without being a hazard (on that day -- there's no assurance he/she won't later become a hazard).

I think the knowledge test is a hurdle set up like every other government test -- it's a method to force the person aspiring for whatever certification to read the source material.

Unless it changed last night, I've never heard ATC say something like, "November three two six tango -- what was your IFR written score?" and then expedite your clearance if you scored a 90 or better.

FWIW, for the Comm and CFI I was scoring plenty high on all the practice tests long before I took either one. But whenever I came across something that made me wonder if I knew why B was the correct answer, I hit the books or talked to more experienced pilots until I actually knew why.

Scores don't extricate you from feces-on-the-fan time -- for that you need knowledge, experience, and skill.

 

[gprellwitz]

Unless it changed last night, I've never heard ATC say something like, "November three two six tango -- what was your IFR written score?" and then expedite your clearance if you scored a 90 or better.

I love it~!

 

[mjburian]

This all came about based on a conversation my wife and I had. She mentioned that if she was the examiner and an applicant that she came across got 100 on the written, she would make sure that the oral exam made the applicant realize that "you don't know it all". Even if it caused her to delve into the FAR/AIM herself, just to find something they didn't know "off-hand".

I'm not looking for a pass, and really feel confident in my knowledge based on the way I studied for the written. As I said originally, I used a number of resources: FAR/AIM, Airplane Flying Handbook, Rod Machado's Private Pilot, Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, Jeppesen Private Pilot, Sporty's Private Pilot DVD Course, and two test prep books. Also, I took an 8 week ground school course (3 hours a week, every Thursday).

I feel lucky to have my dad instructing me, although he said during our first lesson that he was going to be harder on me than any other student he has taught to fly. He gave me quite a bit of ground school instruction, but left it up to me as to when I wanted to "pre-test" for the written exam. Basically, he required me to take a sample written test of his design (allowing him to ask any questions from any resources that I could be expected to be familiar with) and had to get at least a 90% to be signed off to take the written.

The main point of my question was to determine the real answer to the question that caused me some confusion (based on the 3-3 split). I would think that actually *noticing* the differences in the answers given by the 6 different resources would demonstrate the fact that I wasn't just memorizing answers from the test prep books. The other question, though, was in regards to whether or not the score I received on the written was going to cause me more difficulty than just "barely passing".

Once again, I didn't mean to cause dissent among the ranks.

I appreciate the advice I've gotten (in general, the written score has no effect on the oral), but still don't have a consensus as to the correct answer to the question... which, at this point, I guess is more of a curiosity than something that I actually need an answer to.