Question about getting clearance in remote areas

[spiderweb]

Tell me if I've got this right:

You file a flight plan. Then when ready, you call the GCO to get your clearance, but no one answers. Under these circumstances, you may take off, maintain VFR, and pick up your clearance in the air--but you must maintain VFR unless you are in Class G. The better option would be to call Clearance on the telephone after your runup.

Believe it or not, I've never had this problem.

 

[wsuffa]

Tell me if I've got this right:

You file a flight plan. Then when ready, you call the GCO to get your clearance, but no one answers. Under these circumstances, you may take off, maintain VFR, and pick up your clearance in the air--but you must maintain VFR unless you are in Class G. The better option would be to call Clearance on the telephone after your runup.

Believe it or not, I've never had this problem.

Basically correct. Your rules will vary in the ADIZ.

Understand that ATC may not be able to give you your clearance immediately in the air, meaning you must be able to maintain VFR and terrain clearance. If ATC is busy, if the flight plan was lost, or if there is other traffic nearby, ATC may not be able to clear you immediately.

Having said that, I've used this technique regularly when the weather is good from airports that don't have a GCO. I used it coming off of BPK from Gaston's. I've used it off of MRB when the tower was closed (and the folks on the published GCO/CD frequency told me I was on the wrong frequency - easier to depart and get the clearance in the air than to argue). And I've used it in a number of other places under similar circumstances.

I also carry a cellphone that includes analog roaming that works in many, many places so I can get clearance before taking the runway, if necessary.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Like Bill, I've used the GCO, cell phone and taken off VFR to get a clearance in the air when I knew I could maintain VFR.

There are good reasons to have a lot of phone numbers available when you travel. The airport facilities directory has some; the celluar pilot guide and other directories such as AOPA's. I couldn't get the GCO to work once on an IMC day with rain. Just wouldn't connect; so, called the FBO. An instructor there I had met before called FSS on ground and got my clearance and void time; relayed for me on unicom.

I've also tried to depart a class D airport when tower wouldn't answer during operating hours. Great to have the tower number, FSS, approach amoung others. Turned out the controller was alone in the tower and didn't have his headset plugged in properly (or at least that was the story). A call to tower woke...uh solved the problem.

Dave

 

[Ed Guthrie]

but you must maintain VFR unless you are in Class G

You have the options correct except this one. Do not depart IFR/IMC in Class G space without a clearance into the controlled airspace above. Please note that I wrote "clearance"; I did not write "flight plan filed". This situation is an example of the entire FAA legal division pulling a John Lynch--the FARs may tell you it is legal but the FAA doesn't care. The FAA has nailed other pilots for departing IFR into Class G without a clearance into the surrounding controlled airspace using a 91.13 violation (the ever popular "careless or reckless operation") and the FAA has plenty more of those left.

 

[poadeleted20]

Under these circumstances, you may take off, maintain VFR, and pick up your clearance in the air

True, but you'd better have a real good Plan B in case you don't get the clearance right away or get trapped below radio coverage. See http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X18578&key=1 and http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X13551&key=1 -- both fatals.

--but you must maintain VFR unless you are in Class G.

You must stay in VMC even if you are in Class G. See Administrator v. Murphy at http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3935.PDF -- Murphy ate a 90-day suspention for doing just what Ben suggests is legal. The FAA views going into IMC in the G-space between an airport and the overlying controlled airspace without an IFR clearance into/out of the overlying controlled airspace as careless/reckless, and the NTSB agrees with them.

The better option would be to call Clearance on the telephone after your runup.

Agreed.

 

[spiderweb]

OK. Thanks guys. Yep, I really don't want to take off and maintain VFR while I pickupt the clearance in the air--even if it is clear and a million. I just don't want the hassle of copying a full-route clearance while I'm trying to avoid mountains!

 

[wsuffa]

OK. Thanks guys. Yep, I really don't want to take off and maintain VFR while I pickupt the clearance in the air--even if it is clear and a million. I just don't want the hassle of copying a full-route clearance while I'm trying to avoid mountains!

Ben,

Just remember that it's another tool in your quiver that can save you time and aggravation.

Leaving out of Olive Branch one day after a fuel stop, I called ATC for clearance. He had 4 IFRs inbound, and I would have to wait for all of them to come in and cancel before he could let me go. Or, I could depart VFR and pick up the clearance in the air once I was clear of traffic. Guess which I chose?

5 minutes later I was up and well clear of the traffic pattern, and a minute later, I was cleared on-course. I figure that saved me about 25 minutes of wait-time idling on the ground.

Just something to keep in mind. Make sure you have an "out", though, even if it is returning to the departure airport.

bill

 

[gismo]

OK. Thanks guys. Yep, I really don't want to take off and maintain VFR while I pickupt the clearance in the air--even if it is clear and a million. I just don't want the hassle of copying a full-route clearance while I'm trying to avoid mountains!

I have a few more tidbits. One is that ATC won't usually suggest departing VFR to pick up an IFR clearance in the air (they might not be allowed to) but as Bill points out, it can work to everyone's advantage sometimes. If you are likely to get a simple and/or "as filed" route clearance you shouldn't have any trouble copying and reading it back in the air as long as you aren't dealing with other issues (avoiding clouds, serious turbulence, lots of traffic etc). An autopilot, even a simple wing leveler can make copying an airborne clearance trivial, and BTW if you are concerned about copying your clearance while flying, what are you going to do when ATC gives you a mid flight re-route.

Once or twice I've been able to get my route and squawk code before departing VFR, and one way to do this is to ask for a VFR climb to some altitude or point along your IFR route. This helps when the reason for the VFR departure is to avoid a long delay on the ground, but won't do anything for the situation where you simply cannot contact ATC or FSS before launching.

The one thing you should never do is to launch VFR when the wx is potentially IMC. You should be able to return to the departure airport and land legally under VFR (with some added safety margins) or you need to make it an IFR departure.

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks, Bill. These are good points. DDH isn't very busy, but the airspace around ALB is, and that's where I need to go first. As a practice, I always have the approach for the departure airport out in case I need a quick return. For mountainous areas like DDH, departing in good VMC to pick up the clearance in the air, I would just fly the published missed because I know it will keep me safe while I wait.

Ben,

Just remember that it's another tool in your quiver that can save you time and aggravation.

Leaving out of Olive Branch one day after a fuel stop, I called ATC for clearance. He had 4 IFRs inbound, and I would have to wait for all of them to come in and cancel before he could let me go. Or, I could depart VFR and pick up the clearance in the air once I was clear of traffic. Guess which I chose?

5 minutes later I was up and well clear of the traffic pattern, and a minute later, I was cleared on-course. I figure that saved me about 25 minutes of wait-time idling on the ground.

Just something to keep in mind. Make sure you have an "out", though, even if it is returning to the departure airport.

bill

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks, Lance!

 

[grattonja]

OK. Thanks guys. Yep, I really don't want to take off and maintain VFR while I pickupt the clearance in the air--even if it is clear and a million. I just don't want the hassle of copying a full-route clearance while I'm trying to avoid mountains!

My experience coming out of Smoketown is that the pick up clearance obtained from Harrisburg approach is an excellent way to get my clearance, in VMC. I get a shorter clearance, usually, and I am already on my assigned first frequency. Plus, I think Harrisburg likes it better when we do this instead of getting the clearance at S37 over the telephone, as they always have to hold open the airspace for me for at least a 5 minute window of time, and that ties up airspace that is not tied up when I get the clearance on the fly.

My 2 pennies. YMMV of course.

Jim G