Question about Flying Clubs

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aanderson81

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aanderson81
I currently have my SPL and am looking to get my PPL in the near future. I have been looking at flying clubs in the area and so far 2 have caught my eye.

They both have 3 planes and just over 30 members each.

The first one is not an equity club. There is no buy-in, but there is a $600/yr charge that is in lieu of the monthly fixed expenses. It has (3) aircraft. Cherokee 180; 172 and 172RG. The rates are dry hobbs. $50/hr for the 172; $60/hr for the 180, and (i forget exactly off the top of my head, but I believe this is correct) $70/hr for the 172RG.

The second club has around a $2000 buy-in and monthly costs of around $150/mo. They also have 3 aircraft. Archer III; 177B and Mooney M20J. The rates range from $100-$140/hr wet tach time.

Overall the planes of the second club seem to be slightly "better" best I can tell. Both clubs seem well maintained, but the first club the 172 is really day VFR with basic IFR equipment. The Cherokee has GPS but the interior is a bit more dated (not poor condition, just not redone). However I dont know if the second club is worth the extra cost to me right now. But I would love to see if anyone has any feedback on the subject?
 
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You'll have to estimate how much you're going to fly. It would seem off the top of my head that if you're going to fly a lot of hours the first club is a better deal. If you can't commit to fly a lot, the second may be a better deal. Of course, if you're actively pursuing your private, you'll probably have incentive to fly a lot.

I'd check to see what the instruction situation is on both clubs at this point.
 
aanderson81 said:
I currently have my SPL and am looking to get my PPL in the near future. I have been looking at flying clubs in the area and so far 2 have caught my eye.

They both have 3 planes and just over 30 members each.

The first one is not an equity club. There is no buy-in, but there is a $600/yr charge that also doubles as the monthly fixed expenses. It has (3) aircraft. Cherokee 180; 172 and 172RG. The rates are dry hobbs. $40/hr for the 172; $50/hr for the 180, and (i forget exactly off the top of my head, but I believe this is correct) $70/hr for the 172RG.

The second club has around a $2000 buy-in and monthly costs of around $150/mo. They also have 3 aircraft. Archer III; 177B and Mooney M20J. The rates range from $100-$140/hr wet tach time.

Overall the planes of the second club seem to be slightly "better" best I can tell. Both clubs seem well maintained, but the first club the 172 is really day VFR with basic IFR equipment. The Cherokee has GPS but the interior is a bit more dated (not poor condition, just not redone). However I dont know if the second club is worth the extra cost to me right now. But I would love to see if anyone has any feedback on the subject?
Click to expand...

I'd delve further into the maintenance history and financial position of both Club's. While maintenance can "seem" good, as with many things, perception can be deceiving. Talk to some members (multiple ones, including those not involved in maintenance or management), talk to others around the airport, get a good idea of what kind of reputation the Club has for maintenance. "Cheap" flying clubs sometimes get that way by short-cutting maintenance. Same with finances. Find out what kind of reserves each has, how their monthly budgets looks (are they constantly in a cash crunch, etc.).
 
flyingron said:
You'll have to estimate how much you're going to fly. It would seem off the top of my head that if you're going to fly a lot of hours the first club is a better deal. If you can't commit to fly a lot, the second may be a better deal. Of course, if you're actively pursuing your private, you'll probably have incentive to fly a lot.

I'd check to see what the instruction situation is on both clubs at this point.
Click to expand...

How is the second a better deal with less flying? If it was read that it was $600/mo I have updated it to better reflect that it is a single $600 payment for fixed fees vs a monthly payment

The second is $150/mo which is $1800 a year vs $600 upfront with no monthly costs. Plus there is a buy in on the second club. I believe the hourly rate is likely slightly higher on the first club as its dry hobbs time vs wet tach time, but I would think it would take quite a bit of flying for the second club to equal out but im not 100% sure what the typical savings of tach vs hobbs time is.
 
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So club A gets you a 172 for 50/month + ~$85/hour vs
club B which requires $2000 buy in, $150 a month and $100/hour.

Did I get the numbers wrong? When is club B ever cheaper?

Club A -
Airplane C172
Initial 0
Monthly 50 (charged 12 months at a time)
Hourly 50
Variable 34 (8.5 * $4/gal)

Club B -
Airplane Archer III
Initial 2000
Monthly 150
Hourly 100
Variable 0
 
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bflynn said:
So club A gets you a 172 for 50/month + ~$85/hour vs
club B which requires $2000 buy in, $150 a month and $100/hour.

Did I get the numbers wrong? When is club B ever cheaper?

Club A -
Airplane C172
Initial 0
Monthly 50 (charged 12 months at a time)
Hourly 50
Variable 34 (8.5 * $4/gal)

Club B -
Airplane Archer III
Initial 2000
Monthly 150
Hourly 100
Variable 0
Click to expand...

You are comparing Dry Hobbs time to Wet Tach time, so there are a lot of variables...

You'll probably notice less turn over of members in the 2nd club, due to the equity... And of course depending on how they handle people leaving..
 
How much of a difference is Hobbs vs Tach?

The other question is if the difference in planes is measurable.

Archer III vs Cherokee 180
177B vs 172
M20J vs 172RG

I actually did hear back from someone I know who was in Club B and said its a solid club with meticulous maintenance on the Aircraft. Still have to do some looking into club A.
 
aanderson81 said:
How much of a difference is Hobbs vs Tach?

The other question is if the difference in planes is measurable.

Archer III vs Cherokee 180
177B vs 172
M20J vs 172RG

I actually did hear back from someone I know who was in Club B and said its a solid club with meticulous maintenance on the Aircraft. Still have to do some looking into club A.
Click to expand...

If it's got a mechanical tach, it's (very roughly) 1.2-1.3 hobbs hours per tach hour.

An Archer III is going to be faster and newer than a Cherokee 180, but probably less useful load.

A Cardinal is faster, and usually nicer, than a 172. Also has bigger doors for ease of entry.

A Mooney vs. a 172RG is like comparing a Corvette to a Camry with a coffee-can exhaust :) The Mooney is a true traveling machine, especially the 201. The 172RG is a trainer.

Keep in mind, in a club, there are a LOT of intangibles that can make all the difference in the world. Maintenance is a big one of them. The other is availability and scheduling policies.
 
On xc trips where the rpm stays high the entire time tach and Hobbs may even match... Training and pattern work/local flights the tach can be significantly lower...

Regardless of how they bill for it, an archer and a 180 take about the same to operate and maintain (assuming both are maintained the same way)
 
Club A sounds like it does more training and Club B sounds like it's geared for folks who want nice planes for trips.
 
Find the club that's dry tach time...
 
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