Question about Chris Craft

bluerooster

bluerooster

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Currently working on a '67 or '68, 42' Commander. The wood railing around the back was thought to be Mahogony. But when I got it to the house, I found it to be something else, stained to look like Mahogony.
It's tight grained, but blond in color, and much softer, and less dense than Mahogony. Anyone have any ideas?

Here is a part next to a chunk of Mahogony.
 

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Except Teak is darker than the piece on the left, and more dense than Mahogany. Fir maybe?
 
bluerooster said:
Looks to be tighter grained than Fir, But now that you mention conifers, Mabe Spruce?
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That's a possiblity.

NoHeat said:
I think it might be teak that has not been stained.

Here are examples of teak:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/12-things-working-teak

http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-f...olor-pattern-decorative-surface-image34843065
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Except that it's a pretty heavy dense wood, doesn't sound like the description.
 
The rails are going to be teak, the probably had some Cetol or other junk on it. Teak gets very light when hit with Oxalic Acid, even gets near white if you keep using salt water to give it a daily scrub. Teak is not a particularly 'hard' wood, it's easy to work and damage which is why shoes aren't typically allowed on a teak deck.
 
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Heck, I was all ready to chime in. Thought you were talking about the NASA flight director.
 
Henning said:
The rails are going to be teak, the probably had some Cetol or other junk on it. Teak gets very light when hit with Oxalic Acid, even gets near white if you keep using salt water to give it a daily scrub. Teak is not a particularly 'hard' wood, it's easy to work and damage which is why shoes aren't typically allowed on a teak deck.
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Kinda what I figured.
Now I gotta find a scrap piece to mix a stain to give it the mahogony look, to match the rest of the wood work.

Now what really gets me is the rails accross the back are a lamination, same wood but 3 layers, and the underside is quarter sawn, top side is flat sawn. Why not put the pretty stuff on top?
 
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bluerooster said:
Kinda what I figured.
Now I gotta find a scrap piece to mix a stain to give it the mahogony look, to match the rest of the wood work.

Now what really gets me is the rails accross the back are a lamination, same wood but 3 layers, and the underside is quarter sawn, top side is flat sawn. Why not put the pretty stuff on top?
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Don't stain teak, just varnish it, it's not supposed to look like Mahogany lol. You can use Flagship if you want a darker tone. If you want my varnish method, drop me a line. If you don't want to varnish, use Penetrol, or just buy boiled linseed oil or one of the other straight oil products.

As for flat sawn being on top, it's because it stands up to weather better, the inter - grain pulp degrades quickly in sunlight requiring frequent sanding, especially if you wash downs follow the grain instead of crossing.
 
I know Teak isn't supposed to look like mahogony, and I would simply varnish it, were it my own.
But it was origionally colored/stained, to look like mahogony, and the owner want's to keep the origional look.
I'm a very firm believer in using the wood, rather than stain, or paint. And I get sorta peeved about folks using one wood, and staining to look like another wood.
Now I'm wondering how much actual Mahogony is in this boat.
I'll post a pic of what the rails look like before stripping.
The block on the right is that same chunk of Mahogony with a dab of clear urethane brushed on the end.
 

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I promise you, it did not come from Chris Craft with stain on the teak. If you want darker teak, use a deep tone varnish.
 
Most of the "blond wood" is bleached mahogany. Google blond wood chris craft and you'll get info on it.

There are a few nice books on wooden boat restoration as well as the maintenance of brightwork. I took a real nice course out at the Antique Boat Center in Cinncinnati (flying into Blue Ash before they closed that down).

My boat:
boatinwaterslow.jpg
 
It is not uncommon to bleach mahogany to clean up dark stains from water getting under the varnish before staining and re-varnishing. Once that's done, the color of the wood surface doesn't tell you much about what kind of wood it is.
 
This is definately Teak. Not as dense, or heavy, or hard as Mahogony.
I'll be leaving it natural color. And either oil, or varnish.
 
Rails are almost always teak. The best way to control the color of teak is by altering the pH of what you're washing it with. Teak reacts same as litmus paper, alkaline makes it dark an purply, acid brightens it into that light pale yellow tone which riches into a gold when oiled. If you oil it after an alkaline wash, it comes out more a bronze tone.
 
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flyingron said:
Most of the "blond wood" is bleached mahogany. Google blond wood chris craft and you'll get info on it.

There are a few nice books on wooden boat restoration as well as the maintenance of brightwork. I took a real nice course out at the Antique Boat Center in Cinncinnati (flying into Blue Ash before they closed that down).

My boat:
boatinwaterslow.jpg
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Ron's boat is a keeper! I grew up on lake chautauqua, N.Y. Quite a few Chris craft and gar wood run abouts back then. It was a furniture manufacturing town back then, 36 factory's at one time long ago. All gone now, mainly to china. A few double cockpit chris crafts I remember also. Beautiful boat Ron. E scow sailboats were made of wood then also, beautiful! They are now all glass but a lot of fun to sail. Many of them on lake chautauqua. Very fast.
 
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Owning a boat , only slightly less painful than owning an airplane.:D

First picture with a few Cetol squares left on a teak grate, second picture one wash & dry teak is getting blonde.

Third picture is untouched Mahogany.
 

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I've got all these rails prepped and ready for a quality finish. I suppose an oil finish would be best?
Along with that, there are a couple side panels needing replaced in the wheel house, They are mahogony plywood. Given the age, I would suppose either Honduran, or Phillipine. All I can get now, is Sapele, which is an african wood, as close as I can find to the others.
I absolutely refuse to stain anything, But I may need to, in order to achieve a good color match, if this sapele, isn't the right shade. But I'll end up re-doing all the wood in the wheelhouse anyway, I'm sure.
 
Henning said:
Rails are almost always teak. The best way to control the color of teak is by altering the pH of what you're washing it with. Teak reacts same as litmus paper, alkaline makes it dark an purply, acid brightens it into that light pale yellow tone which riches into a gold when oiled. If you oil it after an alkaline wash, it comes out more a bronze tone.
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Now That's some interesting info. I'm gonna get me a scrap piece and play with it.
Change color, depending how you wash it.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
E scow sailboats were made of wood then also, beautiful! They are now all glass but a lot of fun to sail. Many of them on lake chautauqua. Very fast.
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A guy at our sailing club has an older glass E, when it pipes up I love to crew on that thing, it really hauls. Definitely an "E" ticket ride!

For those who've never seen a scow on plane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwSyOmYyMsY
 
bluerooster said:
I've got all these rails prepped and ready for a quality finish. I suppose an oil finish would be best?
Along with that, there are a couple side panels needing replaced in the wheel house, They are mahogony plywood. Given the age, I would suppose either Honduran, or Phillipine. All I can get now, is Sapele, which is an african wood, as close as I can find to the others.
I absolutely refuse to stain anything, But I may need to, in order to achieve a good color match, if this sapele, isn't the right shade. But I'll end up re-doing all the wood in the wheelhouse anyway, I'm sure.
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No, the best thing to do is get enough clear Awl Grip (do NOT use Awl Bright) or Alex Seal polyurethane to coat it 5 times, and enough Epifanes varnish to put on 9-12 coats. Put on 2 coats of the urethane to seal the wood and keep it from allowing the varnish to lose hydrocarbons into it and keep oxygen sealed from the varnish for that side, put on the Epifanes for US protection (you get about a years worth for the first 4 coats and about 2 years for each coat after, then seal over the varnish with 3 coats of the polyurethane to put a hard, slick high gloss finish that protects the varnish from oxidation, drying out, and physical damage. Be sure to use the brushing reducers (unless it's cold, then you are better off with the spray reducer) and a good badger brush, Corona makes good ones at a reasonable price. Always apply in one direction, then back tip it with another brush the is just damp with the proper reducer/thinner. Put on 7 of the coats of varnish before you even touch with sand paper, then get one of t he long sanding blocks and a roll of 220 and a roll of 320 wet/dry and make it 70% flat and smooth, put on the rest of the varnish and wet sand with 320 to 90% smooth. Now put the 3 coats of polyurethane over that using the same brushing technique but no sanding. You will end up with a deep rich glass surface rail highly resistant to damage and sealed from the elements which will stay that way for 10 years and make people go "Oooo ooh".

One note of caution regarding cap rails on top of bulwarks, never caulk the bottom edge, if it's caulked, strip it out because moisture will get in there and be trapped, and especially on a Freshwater boat, begin to rot which will lift the whole conglomerate into a blister.
 
I prefer epiphanes varnish (though my boat was previously finished with a non-longer available Interlux product). However, it's really splitting hairs. Actually, a friend touched up some of the varnish with Rustoleum Marine Varnish and I'm darned if I can tell it from the rest of the finish.

The one thing I do like is the Cetol Door and Window finish (for doors and windows, not boats). If you've seen my house, you know I've got some exposed wood.
 
Rustoleum varnish will look the same for a couple months as will any polyurethane varnish, it's the longevity and durability that's the difference, plus many cheap varnishes have no UV filter, so the wood will go black beneath it.
 
Henning said:
No, the best thing to do is get enough clear Awl Grip (do NOT use Awl Bright) or Alex Seal polyurethane to coat it 5 times, and enough Epifanes varnish to put on 9-12 coats. Put on 2 coats of the urethane to seal the wood and keep it from allowing the varnish to lose hydrocarbons into it and keep oxygen sealed from the varnish for that side, put on the Epifanes for US protection (you get about a years worth for the first 4 coats and about 2 years for each coat after, then seal over the varnish with 3 coats of the polyurethane to put a hard, slick high gloss finish that protects the varnish from oxidation, drying out, and physical damage. Be sure to use the brushing reducers (unless it's cold, then you are better off with the spray reducer) and a good badger brush, Corona makes good ones at a reasonable price. Always apply in one direction, then back tip it with another brush the is just damp with the proper reducer/thinner. Put on 7 of the coats of varnish before you even touch with sand paper, then get one of t he long sanding blocks and a roll of 220 and a roll of 320 wet/dry and make it 70% flat and smooth, put on the rest of the varnish and wet sand with 320 to 90% smooth. Now put the 3 coats of polyurethane over that using the same brushing technique but no sanding. You will end up with a deep rich glass surface rail highly resistant to damage and sealed from the elements which will stay that way for 10 years and make people go "Oooo ooh".

One note of caution regarding cap rails on top of bulwarks, never caulk the bottom edge, if it's caulked, strip it out because moisture will get in there and be trapped, and especially on a Freshwater boat, begin to rot which will lift the whole conglomerate into a blister.
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What's a cryin' shame is I did a scrap piece, with the slick, high gloss, finish you describe, and another with straight oil finish. The owner chose the straight oil. :rolleyes: So I gotta go with it. :sigh:
I really wanted to make this thing stand out, and hold up well. But Th' guy writing the checks has the final say. But I'll be oiling again in about 6 weeks I guess. (on his dime)
 
Henning said:
Rustoleum varnish will look the same for a couple months as will any polyurethane varnish, it's the longevity and durability that's the difference, plus many cheap varnishes have no UV filter, so the wood will go black beneath it.
Click to expand...

What I use is water clear, with UV inhibitor. It works well and will hold up to the elements for many years to come. And it's relatively cheap @ ~ $180/gal. (you get what you pay for)
 
Henning said:
Cetol is sinfully ugly. :vomit:
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Yes, it is.. I used it on the teak on my catalina 30, and it looked like ASS.. I ended up the next summer sanding everything back down and building it up with 4 coats of spar urethane lightly sanded between coats.
 
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