PT 134 1/2?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by BarryCooper, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    If you are thinking 91.146 & 147 Think again.
     
  2. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Posted for the second time in this thread.

    91.409
    b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and been approved for return to service in accordance with part 43 of this chapter or has received an inspection for the issuance of an airworthiness certificate in accordance with part 21 of this chapter. The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of time in service.

    https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/maintenance-and-inspections/aircraft-inspections
    100-Hour Inspection (FAR 91.409)

    The 100-hour inspection is required for aircraft:
    • That carry any person (other than a crew member) for hire; or
    • That are provided by any person giving flight instruction for hire.
    The phrase "for hire" refers to the person, not the aircraft. An FAR Part 91 example of a person carried for hire is an aerial photography flight.


    If you are operating an aircraft carry persons and getting paid under Part 91, you are prohibited from operating an aircraft that does not have a current 100 hour.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  3. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Home Depot, for example, owns or leases several airplanes. They pay pilots to fly them. This is a Part 91 operation. Do you think they perform 100 hr inspections?
     
  4. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not true unless the pilot is providing the airplane.

    It doesn't matter how often you say this, it is not true.

    If the same entity provides the pilot AND the airplane, then it is "for hire". And that does not automatically mean 121/135 as @Tom-D said, as Part 91 sightseeing is also "for hire".

    But, a commercial pilot hired to fly an airplane not provided by that pilot or his employer does not require 100 hour inspections. Otherwise, every private corporate flight department would be subject to 100-hours. That's why the regs on private pilot limitations and privileges say "Compensation or hire". Compensation is a different thing than being for hire.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  5. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    @flyingcheesehead , you said that much more eloquently than I did, but I figured I’d dumb it down because he just isn’t getting it. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  6. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advoc...mercial-air-tour-charity-and-sightseeing-rule

    You can't just fly for hire in 91.

    Commercial sightseeing operators conducting flights under a new §91.147 will have to apply for and receive an LOA from the FAA by September 11, 2007. As part of the LOA application, operators must show proof of registration in an FAA-approved Antidrug and Alcohol Misuse Prevention Program.

    Think of our friends at Denali Air. They are a 135 operations simply because they are for hire.
    You can not do what they do in part 91.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  7. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Totally different issue... We're simply talking about what "for hire" means. The commercial sightseeing operations are "for hire" operations that fall under part 91. You're correct that you can't "just do it" but that doesn't mean it's not for hire.
     
  8. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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  9. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yep. I don't think anyone disagreed with you there... I was merely pointing out that when you said "for hire" implied 121/135 several posts back, that was incorrect - Part 91 can be for hire as well.
     
  10. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Well, I'd imagine that they operate turbine aircraft for which the inspection requirements are different as you well know. :)

    But if they were operating piston aircraft, I would doubt it unless their internal maintenance decision makers decided to do so in the interest of safety.
     
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  11. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I was wondering earlier how progressive inspection programs and the 100hr inspection requirement relate to each other. On something like a citation, is there a separate program for those who have a 100hr requirement or does the standard Cessna program cover what's needed.
     
  12. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    The only turbine I can speak with fairly intimate knowledge of regarding inspection requirements is the MU-2, but my understanding is that other turbines are similar. Going through, here are the major inspections required on the MU-2, by calendar or hours (some have one, some have both):

    - 1 year / 100-hour (recurring)
    - 1 year / 200-hour (recurring)
    - 3 year / 600-hour (recurring)
    - 10 year (recurring)
    - 1200 hour (recurring)
    - 1800 hour (recurring)
    - 7500 hour (one time, but then other aging airframe inspections come up afterwards)

    Part 91 operators are still required to do these inspections at these intervals same as 135. I actually like it that way. That said, I'm not looking forward to the 7500 hour inspection if Cloud Nine still owns the MU-2 at that point.
     
  13. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    I was only pointing out the Carriage of persons for hire is normally 121or 135, but actually air tours for sight seeing like Denali Air, is 136. (my bad)