PSEL TO CMES ?

jaybee

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jaybee
Hi all, I was wondering what the advantage to doing this would be?

I have Comm Helo and Instrument Helo. I wanted to add to my PSEL privileges. Not really looking to work in fixed wing world but hey nothing like having options if needed right?

Also, would you go straight to comm add-on or private multi first ? I believe all the multi, complex hours would be able to be covered doing only dual since I'm adding on ?

thanks,
jeff
 
Hi all, I was wondering what the advantage to doing this would be?

I have Comm Helo and Instrument Helo. I wanted to add to my PSEL privileges. Not really looking to work in fixed wing world but hey nothing like having options if needed right?

Also, would you go straight to comm add-on or private multi first ? I believe all the multi, complex hours would be able to be covered doing only dual since I'm adding on ?

thanks,
jeff
I'd skip the PPMEl; however,consider getting your initial commercial Airplane in a single instead of a multi. There are quite a few airplane specific items you'll have to do since you're adding a new catagory and it could work out to be cheaper to do it in a single ,then do the CMEL as an added class to your commercial certificate (which has no specific training requirements-you could even do one of those 3 day programs for anywhere from $2200 to $3000.)
 
I'm not clear on what you are trying to do -- do you want to exercise Commercial privileges in airplanes (i.e., get paid to fly them) or just be able to fly them privately?
 
Off the top of my head - I think it will be more involved than it might seem at first blush :
since it is a different category and class of aircraft, you will need to demonstrate to the examiner the PTS for private ASEL then for commercial ASEL - though he may let you demonstrate the PTS for commercial and say that covers the private as well... In either case, since the commercial PTS cover much of the private PTS to a higher standard of demonstrated ability plus some additional commercial maneuvers, you should be able to do it all in one check ride...

The complication will be the multi rating since your rotary time is single (I'm assuming) and will require you to put in the multi hours before you can take the check ride...

I suspect the ASEL cross country might already be covered by your rotary ratings - or not as the Regs are designed to let the FAA prove anything they want...
But your Commercial XC ASMEL time will likely have to be flown-off in a multi...

And your ASMEL instrument time will have to be done in the appropriate class and catagory of aircraft... Instrument time is the one they will likely be the most picky about because of the vast difference in approaches to minimums in a fixed wing - which keeps moving forward at 90-120 knots whether you like it or not and especially with asymmetric thrust...

That's my opinion (and I'm stuck with it)

GL
denny-o
 
... however,consider getting your initial commercial Airplane in a single instead of a multi.

I did the initial commercial rating in a single engine airplane and then did the multi-engine as an add on. If I had to do it over again, I might do it in the reverse order. Depending on where you are located, finding a complex single engine airplane to rent can be difficult. When you do an add-on, the plane doesn't have to be complex.

I am looking at getting my CFI and am considering doing the MEI first and then adding on the CFI and CFII.

Ryan
 
If you get the private Multi first then all the subsequent multi time will be PIC and not just dual received. I'd pick through the regs noting airplane/powered aircraft etc. and figure out what you need to either get PPSEL or CSEL first. CSEL might be a negligible difference in cost and training. Then decide from there. Really you just want Private plank privileges if you get commercial airplane someone might pay you to fly one and being a helicopter pilot that would be soul crushing.:lol::yikes:
 
Ok I'm not sure where exactly the disconnect is here. I said I want to "add to my PSEL privileges" - in other words I already have a Private plank license and by my figures I have all the hours already needed with exception of complex and/or multi if I went that route.

I also said "Not really looking to work in fixed wing world but hey nothing like having options if needed right? which meant exactly that, I'm a working Commercial helicopter pilot, but hey if the need arises then I'll fly a plank (even though it would be soul crushing :D)

I guess I could have worded it differently -
- Can the needed multi time be done dual ? (not needing PMEL first)
- does going seaplane grant me multi-land privelages?
- the multi sea plane would give me high performance and complex as I understand it
- cost not really a biggie, multi complex high performance sea-plane still cheaper than a fling wing last I checked.
Anything I'm missing ?
 
Ok I'm not sure where exactly the disconnect is here. I said I want to "add to my PSEL privileges" - in other words I already have a Private plank license and by my figures I have all the hours already needed with exception of complex and/or multi if I went that route.
You said you had Commercial-RH-IH, not Private. And you started asking about going PP-ASEL to CP-AMES, which is a couple of jumps.

So, let's keep it simple -- adding ASEL at the Private level to a CP-RH-IH. Per 61.63(b), for this additional category rating, you must meet all the aeronautical experience requirements for PP-ASEL, but you don't need to take another written. The PP-ASEL experience requirements are, in simplified form:
  • 40 hours total time - no doubt already met
  • 20 hours of flight training - no doubt already met
  • 3 hours of instruments in an ASEL
  • 3 hours of dual XC
  • 3 hours of night dual in an ASEL
  • 3 hours of test prep in an ASEL
  • 10 hour of solo in an ASEL
In theory, you could do the four 3-hour requirements simultaneously, and be endorsed for the test in as little as 13 hours (3 dual, 10 solo), but that's not realistic. Experience teaching helo pilots tells me that if you adapt quickly, a minimum of 10 hours of dual is more likely.

In addition, if you wish to add an Airplane category to your Instrument raing, you'll need to get 15 hours of instrument training in an airplane. Again, no written, but you have to take a practical test.

I also said "Not really looking to work in fixed wing world but hey nothing like having options if needed right? which meant exactly that, I'm a working Commercial helicopter pilot, but hey if the need arises then I'll fly a plank (even though it would be soul crushing :D)
Now we're talking about upgrading your Airplane privileges to the CP level, and there's a bunch more airplane training and solo time required -- you'll need at least 50 hours total time in airplanes, probably 15-20 hours of CP-Airplane training, and more airplane solo flying, probably another 10 hours to meet the solo night and XC requirements.

- Can the needed multi time be done dual ? (not needing PMEL first)
You can add your initial multiengine rating at the CP level, but you'll need both dual and solo time in the twin to do that, probably about 30 hours in all, but not many insurers allow trainees to take multiengine planes solo, so it's likely the solo time will be "supervised solo" with an instructor aboard monitoring, so you'd be paying the dual rate.
- does going seaplane grant me multi-land privelages?
No. You need another 3 hours of test prep, a sign-off, and a practical test for the additional class rating.
- the multi sea plane would give me high performance and complex as I understand it
Complex, yes, but not HP unless the engines are over 200HP. So, if you do it in an Aztec, you get HP, but not in a Seminole.

And I'm still confused what your objective is -- PP-ASEL or CP-AMES. Or both, in that order?
 
If you have a US CRH and a PSEL, you can go to Sheble out in AZ and add on a CMES in the BE 18 in a couple of days and a check ride as you already did a commercial written, it's an add on. Whether it's CMES or PMES would only depend on your hours TT and standards you apply to and fly. I had a bunch of fun, and the Twin Beech on floats is a ***** cat of a plane.
 
Ron Levy;847734 And I'm still confused what your objective is -- PP-ASEL or CP-AMES. Or both said:
I already have a Private Single Engine Land Airplane, Private Rotorcraft added-on, Instrument Helicopter then Commercial Helicopter. Sorry I guess I thought PSEL meant PP-ASEL... guess not...:dunno: don't remember single engine land rating for rotorcraft :dunno: but I guess I should have been more specific. :redface::nono:

I read that doing the Commercial airplane add-on in a multi sea plane would knock out a bunch of requirements at once. Which in case of multi, complex and high performance it would (Grumman Widgeon).

So like I said, I have all the hours needed with exception of complex and/or multi as I understand it. It seems as though I would need to also do a multi engine airplane land ride as well as the single engine land ???and single engine SEA???

I'm thinking a P310 will be better suit my needs than the multi sea plane. I just thought it would be more fun in a sea plane :D
 
If you have a US CRH and a PSEL, you can go to Sheble out in AZ and add on a CMES in the BE 18 in a couple of days and a check ride as you already did a commercial written, it's an add on. Whether it's CMES or PMES would only depend on your hours TT and standards you apply to and fly. I had a bunch of fun, and the Twin Beech on floats is a ***** cat of a plane.

Cool, in fact I think you may have been the one who said what I read before about "might as well do it in a seaplane".
 
Cool, in fact I think you may have been the one who said what I read before about "might as well do it in a seaplane".

Could be, you can probably add the MEL to MES with him in the Travelair for a few hundred as well since it's just a few landings and she handles sweet too. They can pick you up in Vegas in it and you can get a feel for it.
 
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Cool, in fact I think you may have been the one who said what I read before about "might as well do it in a seaplane".
It's not quite as simple as Henning makes it out to be. Read carefully what I wrote on the requirements for adding category ratings and upgrading class ratings. You're going to need at least 50 hours of airplane time before showing up at Sheble and going straight from PP-ASEL to CP-AMES, and it will have to meed a bunch of specific requirements in 61.129(b) which you can't do in one short weekend.
 
If you have a US CRH and a PSEL, you can go to Sheble out in AZ and add on a CMES in the BE 18 in a couple of days and a check ride as you already did a commercial written, it's an add on. Whether it's CMES or PMES would only depend on your hours TT and standards you apply to and fly. I had a bunch of fun, and the Twin Beech on floats is a ***** cat of a plane.

What is a PSEL?
 
What is a PSEL?

Private Single Engine Land - Airplane is implied since airplane is the only Category that has Land and/or Sea and/or Single and/or multi engine class ratings.

It seems it is too much too assume that if you say Single Engine Land that we are talking about airplanes since there are not any land or single engine class ratings for any other Category of aircraft.
 
Private Single Engine Land - Airplane is implied since airplane is the only Category that has Land and/or Sea and/or Single and/or multi engine class ratings.

It seems it is too much too assume that if you say Single Engine Land that we are talking about airplanes since there are not any land or single engine class ratings for any other Category of aircraft.


Problem is you can't assume anyone to think beyond the very exact keystrokes you tap. Some will recognize, accept and continue; some will be confused and question; some will understand and point out your technical or grammatical error while never addressing the topical issue.
 
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Val's not doing the scheduling there anymore. Still, not a bad place to get it all done though.

:confused: What's she doing? She's Jojo's wife (or did that end?) and has been doing their scheduling for over 20 years lol. Did she finally get to retire?:rofl:
 
:confused: What's she doing? She's Jojo's wife (or did that end?) and has been doing their scheduling for over 20 years lol. Did she finally get to retire?:rofl:
When I was there doing my CFI she was having health problems (Eddie Lane, who's the "chief" instructor and a former DE does the scheduling now), but I'm not sure what the situation is now. Tracy (Sr's wife) still runs the testing center though..
 
When I was there doing my CFI she was having health problems (Eddie Lane, who's the "chief" instructor and a former DE does the scheduling now), but I'm not sure what the situation is now. Tracy (Sr's wife) still runs the testing center though..


That's a shame to hear, I hope she's doing better, they're all good people trying to make a living with airplanes.
 
That's a shame to hear, I hope she's doing better, they're all good people trying to make a living with airplanes.
They're great. They bring the small FBO feel to a large accelerated flight program. I plan to go back for my Commercial AMEL add-on and possibly an ASES add-on in the PA-18.
 
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