Proper Way to Enter Round Trips in Logbook??

[bobmrg]

Semi related to the op.

How do you log landings? just full stop? Full stop and T&Gs in the same box or separately?

I have never logged a landing. I assume that anyone checking my logs will realize that you can't fly from A to B to C without a couple of landings...even T&Gs.

Bob

 

[MAKG1]

I have never logged a landing. I assume that anyone checking my logs will realize that you can't fly from A to B to C without a couple of landings...even T&Gs.

Bob

You can fly from A to B to C without landing at A or B...

Most of us only log airports we land at, but there is no requirement there outside the context of requirements for a certificate. But for some certificates you really do have to log landings, and to prove currency, you need landings (and takeoffs!) logged, including whether they are day/night or full stop. One a lot of people miss is that for night currency, you need three night takeoffs in the last 90 days. It doesn't count if you take off 30 minutes after sunset and land 65 minutes after.

An instrument cross country is an example where there will be multiple airports (and at least three approaches) logged, but perhaps only one landing.

 

[bobmrg]

You can fly from A to B to C without landing at A or B...

Most of us only log airports we land at, but there is no requirement there outside the context of requirements for a certificate. But for some certificates you really do have to log landings, and to prove currency, you need landings (and takeoffs!) logged, including whether they are day/night or full stop. One a lot of people miss is that for night currency, you need three night takeoffs in the last 90 days. It doesn't count if you take off 30 minutes after sunset and land 65 minutes after.

An instrument cross country is an example where there will be multiple airports (and at least three approaches) logged, but perhaps only one landing.

"Night currency. Three TOL"


I have an ATP, which means that an FAA inspector went over my logs (five at the time) with a fine-tooth comb. Which certificates require documentation of landings? I take your point about currency, but it is amazing how ops inspectors use common sense.

Bob

 

[MAKG1]

"Night currency. Three TOL"


I have an ATP, which means that an FAA inspector went over my logs (five at the time) with a fine-tooth comb. Which certificates require documentation of landings? I take your point about currency, but it is amazing how ops inspectors use common sense.

Bob

For example, a private pilot certificate requires 10 night-time takeoffs and full-stop landings with flight in the pattern at an airport, and three solo (day or night) takeoffs and full-stop landings at an airport with an operating control tower. 14 CFR 61.109(a)(2)(ii) and (5)(iii). 14 CFR 61.109(a) says explicitly that it must be logged to apply for a private pilot airplane single engine certificate.

 

[Rykymus]

Personally, if the engine gets shut down and the plane gets parked and I get out...That's one line.

 

[Radar Contact]

Very simple solution

If round-trip flight is flown in one day, I log it as one flight

Ex. ABC-XYZ-ABC

If one leg is flown one day and the return is flown the following day:

Ex. Jan. 1 ABC-XYZ
Jan. 2 XYZ-ABC

Another vote for this method as choice of personal preference.

 

[mscard88]

Another vote for this method as choice of personal preference.

But we're not voting!

 

[ChemGuy]

If you ever do Young Eagle flights, or take people flying for fun, Ive found its easier to log the flight from home to the location as a line, Ex KRYY to KCNI .3. the event as 1 line KCNI - KCNI 3.4 8lndgs etc, then the flight home as a 3rd line, KCNI -KRYY .3 . Tried fitting all that on 1 line, too much stuff.

Plus its easy to see how many events, flights, etc I did in a year, etc.

But logging is only needed for ratings and currency. Do what ever you want.

 

[bobmrg]

For example, a private pilot certificate requires 10 night-time takeoffs and full-stop landings with flight in the pattern at an airport, and three solo (day or night) takeoffs and full-stop landings at an airport with an operating control tower. 14 CFR 61.109(a)(2)(ii) and (5)(iii). 14 CFR 61.109(a) says explicitly that it must be logged to apply for a private pilot airplane single engine certificate.

I get my guidance on logging from 61.51, not from 61.109.

109: (a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(b)(1) of this part, and the training must include at least— [my emphasis]

Show me where it says that the landings per se must be logged.

Bob

 

[MAKG1]

I get my guidance on logging from 61.51, not from 61.109.

109: (a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(b)(1) of this part, and the training must include at least— [my emphasis]

Show me where it says that the landings per se must be logged.

Bob

Bob, I know you've been a DPE.

How would you establish eligibility for a private pilot certificate if there were zero landings logged?

The reg says flight time must be logged and it must include a fairly long list of stuff, including a minimum number of landings. If those landings are not logged, the candidate cannot prove eligibility. How else would you do it? Count flat spots on the tires?

Now, I'd agree with you that a private pilot doesn't need more than 13 landings logged, but I simply don't see how you could do your job as a DPE and pass a private pilot ASEL candidate with no logged landings.

 

[bobmrg]

Bob, I know you've been a DPE.

How would you establish eligibility for a private pilot certificate if there were zero landings logged?

The reg says flight time must be logged and it must include a fairly long list of stuff, including a minimum number of landings. If those landings are not logged, the candidate cannot prove eligibility. How else would you do it? Count flat spots on the tires?

Now, I'd agree with you that a private pilot doesn't need more than 13 landings logged, but I simply don't see how you could do your job as a DPE and pass a private pilot ASEL candidate with no logged landings.

Because there is/was no 61.51 requirement that landings be logged, sending an applicant home because no landings were logged would have ended up with my doing a rug dance at the FSDO. Landings are implied when people go flying.

Bob

Bob, I know you've been a DPE.

How would you establish eligibility for a private pilot certificate if there were zero landings logged?

The reg says flight time must be logged and it must include a fairly long list of stuff, including a minimum number of landings. If those landings are not logged, the candidate cannot prove eligibility. How else would you do it? Count flat spots on the tires?

Now, I'd agree with you that a private pilot doesn't need more than 13 landings logged, but I simply don't see how you could do your job as a DPE and pass a private pilot ASEL candidate with no logged landings.

I have contacted Larry Bothe, a current DPE in Indianapolis who writes an occasional column in one of the monthly aviation slicks (Flight Training? P&P?). This is his reply:


"The only landings I look for as a DPE are the 10 required night landings for Private Pilot. I’m not aware of any other landings that are required (by number). I test other landings (short field, soft field, cross-wind), but there is no specific number the applicant has to have done. They just have to be able to do it for the test. I am not aware of any aeronautical experience landing requirement other than the 10 night ones. However, keep in mind that I examine for only Private, Sport and IFR. If some higher level of certificate or rating (a type rating?) calls for a specific number of landings, I might not know about it.

Depending on when you stopped being a DE, there may never have been any requirement for any number of landings. When I got my Private in Feb of 1973 there was no requirement for any night training, and you could fly at night. Night just came along as part of the privileges, then considered the same as day, with no specific mention of night being made. Later night training became required if you wanted to fly at night, and then soon thereafter night training became required whether you wanted to fly at night or not. I remember doing the night landings with students when I was first a CFI, so it has been required since the late 70’s."

his dead horse deserves to rest in peace.

Bob