Prop Strikes and Values

LevelWing

LevelWing

Pre-takeoff checklist
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LevelWing
I keep looking at different planes within my budget and more and more I find that you can find a decent Mooney within my price range. I was looking for a Cherokee 180 but it seems that everyone's advice on here is that if I have the budget, go for something a little better that I won't outgrow in a year. That being said, I found one that I like. The only issue with the plane is that it had a prop strike prior to this owner buying the plane. I'm going to be getting a copy of the log books. Is it still worth looking at the plane even with a prop strike? He's asking around $40k for a 1965 M20E.
 
LevelWing said:
I keep looking at different planes within my budget and more and more I find that you can find a decent Mooney within my price range. I was looking for a Cherokee 180 but it seems that everyone's advice on here is that if I have the budget, go for something a little better that I won't outgrow in a year. That being said, I found one that I like. The only issue with the plane is that it had a prop strike prior to this owner buying the plane. I'm going to be getting a copy of the log books. Is it still worth looking at the plane even with a prop strike? He's asking around $40k for a 1965 M20E.
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Depends on how they returned it to service after the prop strike.If they "dialed the crank",walk away. If they pulled the engine and sent it to a shop for tear down, use it as a price haggling point....the guy you sell it to will.
 
If the engine has since been overhauled and the prop replaced, it's not an issue. Otherwise, I'm not buying. However, I'd also like to know how that prop strike occurred, as it could involve other damage (e.g., collapsed nose gear) which might also be an issue.
 
prop strike won't be a deal breaker, most planes would have some sort of incident they are 40+ years old machines. Just be sure was fixed in the right way and you be good to go.
 
not a deal breaker, but like bart and ron said, it depends on what they did with it. any motor is a crapshoot, but no reason to start with the odds stacked against you.
 
If the prop was overhauled and the engine broken down,I would go with the deal could be better than just a pre purchase,if the job was done right.
 
frfly172 said:
If the prop was overhauled and the engine broken down,I would go with the deal could be better than just a pre purchase,if the job was done right.
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Yep, if they did a tear down and prop repair/replacement done it wouldn't bother me any. I too would want to know how it happened
 
Well if the guy prop stuck a trike, god knows all the other abuse that was laid down on that airframe. It takes a special type of pilot to smack the prop on a trike.
 
Don't know, I fixed an Aztec that struck only one prop with no airframe damage
 
Thanks for the responses. I sent an email to the owner asking about the prop strike and how it was repaired along with some other general questions. Anybody know what a plane like this should go for (basic IFR instruments)? Interior and paint are relatively new (within 5 years). Just looking for a rough ball park number to see if I'm on the right track. I was way off with the Cherokee so it never hurts to ask.

Also, what's the consensus on something like this given that it had two gear up landings?
 
I don't know how current this is, but Jimmy Garrison is well known in mooney circles and has an online app to appraise a plane. It's on page 5 of this download.

IMO, the 2 gear ups shouldn't affect anything assuming the proper repairs were made. Generally, gear ups >10yrs on vintage mooneys have little affect on price.

http://www.themooneyflyer.com/issues/MooneyFlyerNovember2012.pdf

mooneyspace dot com is a good place to look, also.
 
LevelWing said:
Thanks for the responses. I sent an email to the owner asking about the prop strike and how it was repaired along with some other general questions. Anybody know what a plane like this should go for (basic IFR instruments)? Interior and paint are relatively new (within 5 years). Just looking for a rough ball park number to see if I'm on the right track. I was way off with the Cherokee so it never hurts to ask.

Also, what's the consensus on something like this given that it had two gear up landings?
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Mid time engine, prop seems to be past due for overhaul unless he omitted it. Autopilot should be in a museum. Higherish time airframe. I see his no haggle pricing, pass.
 
Having worked with that autopilot, it wouldn't bother me, it works very well.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Well if the guy prop stuck a trike, god knows all the other abuse that was laid down on that airframe. It takes a special type of pilot to smack the prop on a trike.
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You must only taxi on freshly-ironed pavement. ;)

I saw a guy strike the prop on a 182 by hitting a tiedown eye on a concrete ramp. Bounced up, came down and the strut depressed enough to hit the ground.
 
Lycomings are pretty stringent about prop strikes even hitting tall grass can warrant a tear down and inspection. Worst case prop strike requires a complete tear down inspection/OH engine and OH prop. So if you are buying at or near a run out engine and prop price, you are not too far off.

Most planes with WAAS GPS and autopilot bring about $15-20k more than others without it. Even with an unpopular autopilot, if it works well, its worth something.

I don't particularly care for Mooneys but this one might warrant further look see. Just because an owner posts no haggle doesn't mean squat. The market determines price not the seller. You are in a situation where you do not want to spend money inspecting it until the owner is realistic about the price or paying to comply with AD's not yet met or Factory inspection requirements from a prop strike.

If you determine you are interested, call him once a month and see if there is a change in the price until he gets more reasonable.

After I looked for planes a while I decided at some point owning it for a few thousand less mentality was preventing me from beginning my dream adventures and I just decided it wasn't worth that last penny negotiation.

With that said if you ever do decide to slightly over pay for a plane then double and triple check it out with type specialized a&p to make sure you won't have to drop a bundle in maintenance after you buy it.

If you have pretty much decided you are going to buy a Mooney then buy some Mooney books and read everything you can about the breed and become as familiar with every detail that you can. It makes you a better buyer and a better owner.
 
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SoloEqs said:
You must only taxi on freshly-ironed pavement. ;)

I saw a guy strike the prop on a 182 by hitting a tiedown eye on a concrete ramp. Bounced up, came down and the strut depressed enough to hit the ground.
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Usualy when I go into ruff places I'm normally tailwheel anyway.

I avoid chains, dips, rings etc like the plague in our 208B

There was a AOPA event in Palm Springs, CA almost a year ago, I was passing through and stopped by the maintenance shop (very sketchy shop BTW) and there was a cirrus and piper that BOTH prop struck trying to land for the event. PSP is smooth as glass as far as surface goes and has enough runway for a F18.

Mooney prop strike, I'd wager is was a slammer landing more then running over something during taxi.
 
SoloEqs said:
You must only taxi on freshly-ironed pavement. ;)

I saw a guy strike the prop on a 182 by hitting a tiedown eye on a concrete ramp. Bounced up, came down and the strut depressed enough to hit the ground.
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He hurt the plane more than just the prop, flat tire and flat strut and the prop still won't hit the ground
 
Measure the length of the green tint on Mooney props on the North 40 at OSH. Most owners use the blades as towel racks so you can't see how much grass they have trimmed. :p
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Lycomings are pretty stringent about prop strikes even hitting tall grass can warrant a tear down and inspection. Worst case prop strike requires a complete tear down inspection/OH engine and OH prop.
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BS…. read the AD2004-10-14
 
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Tony_Scarpelli said:
I did, said exactly what I said.
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Tony_Scarpelli said:
Lycomings are pretty stringent about prop strikes even hitting tall grass can warrant a tear down and inspection. Worst case prop strike requires a complete tear down inspection/OH engine and OH prop. So if you are buying at or near a run out engine and prop price, you are not too far off.
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Read the entire text of the AD.

Definition of Propeller Strike

(i) For the purposes of this AD, a propeller strike is defined as follows:
(1) Any incident, whether or not the engine is ope
rating, that requires repair to the propeller other than minor dressing of the blades.
(2) Any incident during engine operation in which the propeller impacts a solid object that
causes a drop in revolutions per minute (RPM) and also requires structural repair of the propeller (incidents requiring only paint touch-up are not included). This is not restricted to propeller strikes against the ground.
(3) A sudden RPM drop while impacting water,
tall grass, or similar yielding medium, where propeller damage is not normally incurred.
(j) The preceding definitions include situations where an aircraft is stationary and the landing
gear collapses causing one or more blades to be
substantially bent, or where a hanger door (or other
object) strikes the propeller blade. These cases should be handled as sudden stoppages because of potentially severe side loading on the crankshaft flange, front
bearing, and seal.


 
Ron Levy said:
If the engine has since been overhauled and the prop replaced, it's not an issue. Otherwise, I'm not buying. However, I'd also like to know how that prop strike occurred, as it could involve other damage (e.g., collapsed nose gear) which might also be an issue.
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In most occasions you will see a log entry that says the AD has been complied with, and the prop was Iran'ed by a prop shop.

you going to walk by it anyway?
 
Some body define " tear down"
 
Rotor head and Tony both missed the point.

The point was, it isn't what constitutes a strike, but what must be done to a Lycoming engine, It does not require the engine to be overhauled or disassembled any father than what the AD requires, which is only the accessory case be removed and the two prats that the AD requires be replace.

As pointed out in the previous post TCM doesn't even have an AD, just a service bulletin, which isn't required to be complied with in part 91.

and seldom is.
 
Tom-D said:
Rotor head and Tony both missed the point.

The point was, it isn't what constitutes a strike, but what must be done to a Lycoming engine, It does not require the engine to be overhauled or disassembled any father than what the AD requires, which is only the accessory case be removed and the two prats that the AD requires be replace.

As pointed out in the previous post TCM doesn't even have an AD, just a service bulletin, which isn't required to be complied with in part 91.

and seldom is.
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I never responded to your post, my response was to correct the assumption of hitting grass would require the SB to come into play unless there was a rpm drop.
 
Tom-D said:
Rotor head and Tony both missed the point.

The point was, it isn't what constitutes a strike, but what must be done to a Lycoming engine, It does not require the engine to be overhauled or disassembled any father than what the AD requires, which is only the accessory case be removed and the two prats that the AD requires be replace.

As pointed out in the previous post TCM doesn't even have an AD, just a service bulletin, which isn't required to be complied with in part 91.

and seldom is.
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I don't really care what the regs are. "Crank dialed perfectly" is clue number one that I should run.

SEE:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20100315X02419&key=1

for a reason why.

Somebody is pulling the crank out and magnafluxing it if I'm going to buy it.

I don't discriminate against incidents, I discriminate against how it was RTS.
 
Let us say, that we have two engines one is a 0-300 on a 1965 Cessna 172, the other is a 0-320 on a 1968 Cessna 172.

Each have a damaged propeller that requires removal for repair.

What is the legal method of return to service for each?


RTFQ
 
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Tom-D said:
Let us say, that we have two engines one is a 0-300 on a 1965 Cessna 172, the other is a 0-320 on a 1968 Cessna 172.

Each have a damaged propeller that requires removal for repair.

What is the legal method of return to service for each?


RTFQ
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Check the gears on the Lyc, can likely be done in place, repair/replace prop

TCM, repair or replace prop

Not always what I would WANT to do, but that wasn't the question was it?
 
Skylane81E said:
Check the gears on the Lyc, can likely be done in place, repair/replace prop

TCM, repair or replace prop

Not always what I would WANT to do, but that wasn't the question was it?
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I believe you have to replace the crank gear bolt to comply with the Lycoming AD as well.

I agree that this isn't how I would want to do the inspection on a plane I own but that is what is required.

I think that prop strikes and the required inspections are very misunderstood by the majority of people, including many mechanics.
 
If Lycoming isn't worried about any other parts in their engines why should we.

They do have all the Lawyers and the Company CYA to think about.
 
Skylane81E said:
Check the gears on the Lyc, can likely be done in place, repair/replace prop

TCM, repair or replace prop

Not always what I would WANT to do, but that wasn't the question was it?
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What part of that decision process was left out of the question?
 
And all we have in the game is our skin and our money. Why would those matter?

Tom-D said:
If Lycoming isn't worried about any other parts in their engines why should we.

They do have all the Lawyers and the Company CYA to think about.
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rbridges said:
I don't know how current this is, but Jimmy Garrison is well known in mooney circles and has an online app to appraise a plane. It's on page 5 of this download.

IMO, the 2 gear ups shouldn't affect anything assuming the proper repairs were made. Generally, gear ups >10yrs on vintage mooneys have little affect on price.

http://www.themooneyflyer.com/issues/MooneyFlyerNovember2012.pdf

mooneyspace dot com is a good place to look, also.
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But be careful. Jimmy is also know for his shop's pencil whip annuals. BTDT.
 
Skylane81E said:
He hurt the plane more than just the prop, flat tire and flat strut and the prop still won't hit the ground
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It will when the concrete slabs are no longer flat.

This was a broken-ground situation, the ramp at a long-abandoned military field over in the People's Republic of California that a bunch of us went to for a holiday weekend. He was trying to turn around after landing on the ramp (the runways way too deteriorated to use). The slabs were a little shifted -- not a problem for the rest of us, but obviously for him.

It scuffed up his prop tips -- a little dressing with a file and he was able to fly home. If you ever see a white and blue 182 with an eyebolt painted on the side, that's probably him.
 
bbchien said:
Selective reading, Tony.
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I guess its over my head.

Tom is right, I misunderstood the tear down degree required by a reduction in RPM.

I didn't say tall grass would require inspection only that It could require inspection.
 
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