Prop Strike

Have you ever let someone exit your plane while the engine was still running?

  • Never

    Votes: 34 34.7%

  • Yes, for a passenger or pilot

    Votes: 16 16.3%

  • Yes, but only for another pilot.

    Votes: 48 49.0%
  • Total voters
    98
  • Poll closed .
TMetzinger

TMetzinger

Final Approach
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
9,660
Location
Northern Virginia
Display Name
Tim
Home Airfield
KJYO/KHEF
Recently a CFI dropped off a passenger at a local airport, and she walked around the left strut and headed for the restaurant, with the propeller striking her arm (partially severing it) and her face.

Line crew and a Medic from the State Police Hangar on the field rendered prompt first aid, and she survived and was taken to a hospital?

Question for discussion - have you ever let people out of your plane while the engine was still running?

I once let a CFI get out and walk away to the rear of the airplane, but I was so uncomfortable that I decided never to do it again.
 
TMetzinger said:
Question for discussion - have you ever let people out of your plane while the engine was still running?

I once let a CFI get out and walk away to the rear of the airplane, but I was so uncomfortable that I decided never to do it again.
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I have exited a SEL while it was running.

I felt uncomfortable, so I rehearsed in my mind where I was going to walk before exiting, and forced myself to think before moving.

I remember being repeatedly warned about moving off an M1 turret while the turret was unlocked. It was good advice, but did not apply to every situation.

Like most things, there are exceptions. It's up to us to determine if the event warrants the exception, and then pay the price when we choose wrong.

A bit of anxiety can be a Good Thing.
 
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Yes, many times, but only other pilots.

I'd do it in the P-Baron so that I could keep the A/C running. Unfortunately, I need the left engine for that and the passenger door is on the left, too :(
 
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Yes. It's pretty much SOP with one running on the 1900, so long as the pax door points straight out toward the terminal door and they don't have to cross in front of the nose. I've also done it with the Seminole, but that was another pilot. I'd feel pretty comfortable letting a pax off with one engine turning on any twin, so long as they don't cross in front of the nose or behind the tail.

I've done it on a single, but only with a CFI, I probably would be much more hesitant with a non-pilot unless it's someone that I know has a)spent a decent amount of time around planes, and b) I have very thoroughly briefed "step out then walk straight to the back, don't turn to the front or the side until you're well clear of the a/c..." Then again, I can't really think of many incidences for which that would be nessisary in most single engine operations. It's just as easy to shut down for a few minutes and remove almost all of the risk.
 
On a twin, I can see keeping one running while folks exit out the other side, IF there's an operational need to do so.

Thinking back, there were times when we'd duck under the spinning rotor of the helo, but generally it got shut down unless there was an urgent need to enter/exit.
 
Yes, my CFI before and after my first solo. I doubt I would ever do it with a passenger who wasn't a pilot.

-Rich
 
Some time ago at a flyin to MHV I was watching a 172 pull up to the tiedown area. As soon as the 172 stopped, out jumps the CFI as the pilot starts the shutdown checklist. He slipped with all of us watching him fall towards the prop, just pausing expecting to lose our appetite. Lucky he grabbed the strut on the way down and the prop stopped shortly after.

After watching this, it resolidified my earlier decision. No pax is to leave while the prop is running while I'm PICing. I'm still on the fence about CFIs as they should know what they're doing.

But I did have a CFI step out for my first solo. They must really trust their students.
 
I've done it with the Mrs. The door to the Cherokee faces aft, and you get off the aft part of the wing. A stern warning was given not to approach the aircraft under any circumstances whatsoever, even if Its on fire. A watchful eye and a hand on the mixture until the Mrs. was off the ramp helped give me some piece of mind. Have done it 2x for passenger comfort.
 
Always brief your pax on the direction to walk, and why..
 
I let the CFI out with the prop still turning near the jug-handle before making my first solo takeoff... does that count? :wink2:

I think there were a couple of other times with CFIs and other pilots, but I always warn pax, especially first-timers, to NOT exit until that thing stops moving.
 
rottydaddy said:
I think there were a couple of other times with CFIs and other pilots, but I always warn pax, especially first-timers, to NOT exit until that thing stops moving.
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While walking to the plane with pax I usually say something like, "70 lb metal bar @ 1000 rpm vs. you. Who loses?" Somehow that works for non-pilot pax. :D
 
Yes, but only another pilot that I'm comfortable with (usually just my dad or CFI). Other than that, no.

I have worked on cropdusters where we are climbing all over the wings, under the nose, etc. etc. with them running, so it's almost second nature for me to know where the 'kill zone' is, but that doesn't mean I take it for granted.
 
Pi1otguy said:
While walking to the plane with pax I usually say something like, "70 lb metal bar @ 1000 rpm vs. you. Who loses?" Somehow that works for non-pilot pax. :D
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Oh, yes... mustn't sugar-coat it. It's funny how first-timers are often scared of things they shouldn't be, but really need to get more scared of the prop. Once they see it up-close and understand what it can do, they get it well enough. But it's so easy to forget it's there when it's moving, unless you've been briefed properly and you're paying attention.

I generally point out to them not only the rpm and weight, but the fact that it isn't really sharp enough to cut them- it will just sort of smash through anything in its path. Very nasty. The people who get a finger or hand lopped off, or get scalped, are the lucky ones.

I've fortunately never witnessed a strike, but I've heard some godawful stories, especially about those who managed to get their torso inside the prop disc. :frown2:

I think you're better off getting mauled by a large animal, surgical repair-wise, than by a prop.

It's always a huge bummer to hear about yet another prop strike "in this day and age"... :nonod:
 
I had a revelation the other day when I was trying to close a door behind the left prop on a Baron. The door is behind the wing, and the engine was only at 1000RPM or so.

Nevertheless, as soon as I walked by the tail to that side, I could barely move forward. I almost fell over the horizontal stabilizer. Maybe that would make for a good demo for passengers :)
 
Yes I have, for pilots and non pilots alike. I give specific instructions as how to leave the aircraft, and I only do it with people I know are qualified to follow those instructions. Any doubt's and I shut it down. Working Ag, crews are working around spinning props all day long.
 
I have never let a pax out while the prop was spinning. I don't think I will either. I have how ever exited a Lance on Two occasions from the right seat and exited aft of the wing ( obviously) one time I then went to the back door and let out a pax. Each time I walked aroun the Tail of the plane and way out to the side. The time I let the pax ( I was not the pilot) out the back exit I escorted him way out past the wing and then to the ramp gate.

I did once enter a PA28 while it was running. Did not like that at all.
 
My prop doesn't spin when people are getting in or out. I don't care if you're Chuck Yeager. You trip and fall into my prop, your still dead, and I don't want to live with that.
 
CJones said:
I have worked on cropdusters where we are climbing all over the wings, under the nose, etc. etc. with them running, so it's almost second nature for me to know where the 'kill zone' is, but that doesn't mean I take it for granted.
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Why don't they shut down? It'd take all of a minute to have the prop stopped while they were refilling and refueling, wouldn't it?

As for me, I always shut down, and I usually end up with people saying "Oh, you don't have to do that..." Well, why not? Better safe than sorry. And frankly, 999 times out of 1000 it goes fine but that 1000th time... Ugh. *shudder*
 
I have, once (loading a passenger); it was during a time when the owner of the plane insisted that it was "just fine," but it just could not be coaxed into starting when hot; started fine when cold.

Flew to Sugar Land to pick up passenger; conducted briefing on phone prior to leaving ADS, reconfirmed instructions with FBO staff (who agreed to escort and supervise). Essential rule: approach the aircraft from behind the line formed by projecting the trailing edge of the wing, climb in. If, at any time, they had strayed in front of that imaginary line, even briefly, engine stop would have been immediate.

All went well.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Why don't they shut down? It'd take all of a minute to have the prop stopped while they were refilling and refueling, wouldn't it?
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Cycles, With turbines, overhaul is also cycle dependent. For Ag operations we get 3 cycles per 5 landings if we don't shut down. Since our times between cycles are relatively low when compared to most turbine operations, we'd be overhauling far too often if we shut down every time, plus, start up is the riskiest thing on a turbine aircraft.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Why don't they shut down? It'd take all of a minute to have the prop stopped while they were refilling and refueling, wouldn't it?
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Turbines don't like constant hot-starts. There were some times that we would leave engines running for 30 minutes or so waiting to decide if the wind would blow through, pilot take a break, etc. It was like pulling teeth to get a turbine guy to shut down. And once they shut down, they were shut down for an hour minimum.

Besides, it takes at least 5 minutes by the time we hook up aux batteries (which would be required if doing 15-20 starts per day), everything spools up, and we get the 'pull the plug' signal. That's five extra minutes that the plane is not in the air. Even some of the recip guys I worked with would leave it running for a quick-turn.
 
Henning said:
I usually did, turbine or recip.
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Only the recip guys that actually wanted to get anything done were the ones that left it running. ;) The guys that were pouting because they didn't have the turbine would usually shut down and spend 20 minutes looking over maps between loads. Oh.. And they would shut down in the middle of my ramp, by the way! Word to the wise for cropdusters -- don't **** off the ground crew guy that organizes the maps and arranges loads or you'll be spending all day spraying 100 acres in 15 different fields sprinkled with power lines. ;)

At least the recips kept the breeze blowing when idling. Turbines just circulated hot exhaust.
 
Never....... under ANY circumstances. NEVER EVER! People just are too complacent about walking into the prop arch. Watch people around an airplane, the prop becomes an arm rest.

We had a farmer flying out of his own airstrip let his own kid out to open the gate. He was killed instantly.
 
Neither of the answers quite apply to my choice. I'd do so with very experienced pilots I know or only CFIs I personally know and work with. With passengers, not a chance.
 

Always be careful when around running engine be they prop or turbine.

I prefer to only let my pax out when the engine is off. Even for a quick turn it is better to be safe than sorry.
 
CJones said:
Only the recip guys that actually wanted to get anything done were the ones that left it running. ;) The guys that were pouting because they didn't have the turbine would usually shut down and spend 20 minutes looking over maps between loads. Oh.. And they would shut down in the middle of my ramp, by the way! Word to the wise for cropdusters -- don't **** off the ground crew guy that organizes the maps and arranges loads or you'll be spending all day spraying 100 acres in 15 different fields sprinkled with power lines. ;)

At least the recips kept the breeze blowing when idling. Turbines just circulated hot exhaust.
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I always preferred recips, I can turn them tighter and they don't stink. Turbine fumes gag me.
 
KennyFlys said:
Neither of the answers quite apply to my choice. I'd do so with very experienced pilots I know or only CFIs I personally know and work with. With passengers, not a chance.
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Some of my non pilot passengers I trust a lot further than most pilots. They're crew I run with offshore and I know they will follow my instruction explicitly.
 
I've only let out my CFI so that I could solo and my A&P so that he could
troubleshoot.
 
I have, but it has only been for another pilot and I can count the number of times I've done that on one hand. Anyone else, I stop the engine and nobody approaches the airplane or opens a door until the prop comes to a complete stop. I have flown a 152 before that would occasionally diesel on shutdown.
 
A pilot friend and I used to "hot swap" seats frequently when doing currency runs together. Of course we walked around the tail. The only kind of passenger I would let out with the engine running is one who was very familiar with airplanes, like an A&P or former student pilot. And even then only with a reminder, and only if I knew them really, really well.
 
I watched a man, and I presume his 10 - 12 year old son, climb in and start up an Archer with the nose wheel still chocked. After a couple of attempts to run over the chock, this knucklehead actually had his son climbing back out with the engine running to remove it. I ran across the ramp waving at him and yelling for the kid to stay put and snuck around behind and prop and removed it myself. It still just blows my mind to think about it today.

I've let people get in/out pretty frequently with the engine idling but make sure they're exiting on/off from the rear of the wing. I'd never attempt it with kids, dogs, or anyone else around that couldn't be 100% trusted to stay away from the fan.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Why don't they shut down? It'd take all of a minute to have the prop stopped while they were refilling and refueling, wouldn't it?

As for me, I always shut down, and I usually end up with people saying "Oh, you don't have to do that..." Well, why not? Better safe than sorry. And frankly, 999 times out of 1000 it goes fine but that 1000th time... Ugh. *shudder*
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Time is money and cycles are money on turbines. On the recips that my family flew they always left the prop turning. If they shut it down they would have to prop start it again. Would you want to prop start a stearman all day long?
 
I've jumped out with the prop still turning, but the engine shut down. I still made sure to run to the end of the wing before turning in. I was PIC, I HAD TO PEEE!!!!!!!!!! and I mean BAD. I made the most beutiful landing (out of necessity) pulled up to the FBO, as I stopeed the AC told my pilot passenger to get on the breaks, ran the shut down check list as fast as I could as the engine sputtered off (prop still turning) I jumped out and ran. First to the end of the wing, then twoard the building.

I let my CFI out with the engine running and have had it running near A&Ps but always with lots of communications. I don't think I would let other in or out with it running.
 
Trapper John said:
You really did have to go, didn't you? :tongue:


Trapper John
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About a month later I got a patch to sew onto my flight bag that said CoPilot that he found at a bike rally:

"Outta my way
I have to PEE!"

I was late for the flight and we were traveling from KYIP (Williow Run, MI) back to KIPT (Williamsport, PA) and the club plane turns into a pumpkin at sundown (best not to be in the air when that happends). I went at Willow Run but somewhere over Ohio I had to go agian.... We talked about it but we were so close to sundown that we couldn't land, pee, and takeoff and still make IPT before sundown. So I held it, and held it and held it and... AHHHHH! I made the best greaser landing out of necessity! Even if I had a lady J there is no way I would have used it, aforementiond co-pilot was also called "boss" Monday-Friday.
 
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TMetzinger said:
Recently a CFI dropped off a passenger at a local airport, and she walked around the left strut and headed for the restaurant, with the propeller striking her arm (partially severing it) and her face.
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Just tragic. I hope she recovers fully. I hope the CFI does, too...

I once let a CFI get out and walk away to the rear of the airplane, but I was so uncomfortable that I decided never to do it again.
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Agreed. I just can't see the upside of leaving the engine running. Any miniscule time savings just isn't worth it.


Trapper John
 
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