Project Creep

Timbeck2

Timbeck2

Final Approach
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Nov 4, 2015
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Vail, Arizona
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Display name:
Timbeck2
Always happens to me. I want to replace the starter in my Cherokee with a new Sky-Tec. In order to do that, I have to remove the front cowling, and in order to do that, I have to remove the prop, spinner and all associated accoutrements.

So I get the new started installed (after discovering that if I remove the oil cooler it makes it much simpler) and find that the brand new Bogart cable to the starter is 4 inches too short. No problem, I have enough slack to make up for it, just need to loosen it from the solenoid and turn it 1/4 turn. I take the rubber boot off and it looks like the connection is a little rusty. I take a wrench to the nut and the whole post moves. Now I need a new solenoid which I ordered this morning.

Other than putting fuel in the tanks, oil in the engine and air in the tires, is there anything simple about maintenance on an airplane.....simpler than breaking out the check book obviously?
 
Did you hear why my brother, the retired USAF Colonel, test pilot, never owned his own aircraft, or why I earn about 10k a month with my hangar. LOL
 
What Cherokee is this?

I replaced my sump drain today on my left wing. Was actually really simple. But yes I understand. Nothing is easy or cheap.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Did you hear why my brother, the retired USAF Colonel, test pilot, never owned his own aircraft, or why I earn about 10k a month with my hangar. LOL
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Twice Ive heard of your hangar making $10k a month. How do you do this?
 
1970 Cherokee 140.

So far I've found very few things that don't require removal of a few other things in order to get to the desired thing.

But the bright side is that if I hadn't had to remove the cowl, I never would have found the worn grommet in the carb heat box. I wanted to polish the spinner anyway and while it was off....well, project creep isn't ALL bad.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Always happens to me. I want to replace the starter in my Cherokee with a new Sky-Tec. In order to do that, I have to remove the front cowling, and in order to do that, I have to remove the prop, spinner and all associated accoutrements.

So I get the new started installed (after discovering that if I remove the oil cooler it makes it much simpler) and find that the brand new Bogart cable to the starter is 4 inches too short. No problem, I have enough slack to make up for it, just need to loosen it from the solenoid and turn it 1/4 turn. I take the rubber boot off and it looks like the connection is a little rusty. I take a wrench to the nut and the whole post moves. Now I need a new solenoid which I ordered this morning.

Other than putting fuel in the tanks, oil in the engine and air in the tires, is there anything simple about maintenance on an airplane.....simpler than breaking out the check book obviously?
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That is known as the "syndrome of the hole", the bigger the hole, the bigger it needs to be.
 
i have done enough aircraft maintance to see this phenomen many times. start working on the spinner and an hour later you wondering why you are working on the rudder.:)

Brian
 
Which is more expensive per hour? Flying an airplane or repairing it?
 
Timbeck2 said:
Always happens to me. I want to replace the starter in my Cherokee with a new Sky-Tec. In order to do that, I have to remove the front cowling, and in order to do that, I have to remove the prop, spinner and all associated accoutrements.

So I get the new started installed (after discovering that if I remove the oil cooler it makes it much simpler) and find that the brand new Bogart cable to the starter is 4 inches too short. No problem, I have enough slack to make up for it, just need to loosen it from the solenoid and turn it 1/4 turn. I take the rubber boot off and it looks like the connection is a little rusty. I take a wrench to the nut and the whole post moves. Now I need a new solenoid which I ordered this morning.

Other than putting fuel in the tanks, oil in the engine and air in the tires, is there anything simple about maintenance on an airplane.....simpler than breaking out the check book obviously?
Click to expand...

While the replacing the rusted up solenoid is good, the big post moving is not significant in and of itself, it's just a basically a carriage bolt with a contactor for a head. The piston in the solenoid has a disc that when you engage it spans across those two contact surfaces and completes the circuit between the posts.
 
Looks like that solenoid was the original to the plane. It moved in two directions both twist and side to side. My mechanic says its a good idea to replace it.

We owners are made of money right?
 
Timbeck2 said:
Looks like that solenoid was the original to the plane. It moved in two directions both twist and side to side. My mechanic says its a good idea to replace it.

We owners are made of money right?
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Unless that plane is <10 years old, that solenoid doesn't owe anyone a dime.:lol: Yeah, parts go bad, we spend money on them.
 
A. Why would you put an inferior starter on your engine? I hope you memorized the starter replacement procedure and now carry the appropriate tools because you will have to rebuild the starter in a remote area one day to get home. Expect once a year.
B. Your repair progress is nothing rare, we all go through it. You don't want to ask me about my friend who started with an oil change on his car and ended up with a complete rotisserie-style restoration. :)
 
Inferior starter? Sky-Tec?

I did my homework and after several pilots recommended Sky-Tec that's what I bought. The starter I took off was inferior which is why I replaced it.

Edit: Lycoming is even installing Sky-Tec starters on their engines now.
 
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When I read the thread title "project creep,". I thought it was a two word noun...and not a noun and verb...and I thought this thread was going to be an analysis of the responders in April's "happy student pilot" thread.

:goofy:

:)
 
bump to see if they guy who says Sky-Tec starters are inferior can provide an explanation.
 
Timbeck2 said:
bump to see if they guy who says Sky-Tec starters are inferior can provide an explanation.
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The original starters had some design flaws and material flaws which could cause the "safety" shear pin to shear pretty often (rendering the starter inop) or introduce foreign matter inside the starter (rendering it inop again).
The rule of thumb for those is to just rebuild the starter during every annual to prevent getting stranded in the middle of nowhere due to a silly shear pin.

I hope they improved the design because if they are installing them on all Lycomings now, that would make many pilots unhappy.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Always happens to me. I want to replace the starter in my Cherokee with a new Sky-Tec. In order to do that, I have to remove the front cowling, and in order to do that, I have to remove the prop, spinner and all associated accoutrements.

So I get the new started installed (after discovering that if I remove the oil cooler it makes it much simpler) and find that the brand new Bogart cable to the starter is 4 inches too short. No problem, I have enough slack to make up for it, just need to loosen it from the solenoid and turn it 1/4 turn. I take the rubber boot off and it looks like the connection is a little rusty. I take a wrench to the nut and the whole post moves. Now I need a new solenoid which I ordered this morning.

Other than putting fuel in the tanks, oil in the engine and air in the tires, is there anything simple about maintenance on an airplane.....simpler than breaking out the check book obviously?
Click to expand...

:lol::lol::mad2::lol::lol:

I think there is STILL a cloud of swears floating in my hangar from 2 weeks ago when I reinstalled the rear bench seat in my plane. I don't ever want to hear any BS about "oh it's just 6 bolts". I thought so too. 3 hours and a visit from my A&P later it was installed. Then I realized I had taken out the pilot's seat. Should slide back in no prob... nope. Problem. I screwed with that GD seat for another hour and finally found I could remove a vent plate and it would give me the exta 2mm I needed to get the front roller onto the stupid seat track.

While he was quite helpful and lent me a couple tools, my A&P's reaction could be summed up as... "welcome to my world, buddy, don't expect sympathy" :D
 
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petrolero said:
:lol::lol::mad2::lol::lol:

... my A&P's reaction could be summed up as... "welcome to my world, buddy, don't expect sympathy" :D
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I just helped mine rebuild my left main strut. There were a LOT of curse words floating around yesterday. What was supposed to be a 4 hour job ended up being 9 hours and we still could NOT get the scraper to go in correctly. We finally walked away and left it. When I got off work today and went to the airport, I noticed my hanger door was open and my strut was installed. My mechanic was under the wing grinning and said that he took it apart, used a different scraper and everything went back together as it should. Looks like I'll get to fly this weekend.
 
I'm working on the horizontal stab on my RV-8. The original tail kit was purchased in 1998, then stored for the next 17 years. So, now there's this service bulletin that needs to be incorporated. Its designed to be retrofitted. But, I thought i'd just incorporate it with the original build; you know - save a little time.

So now, after some screw ups trying to figure out just the right sequence of assembling everything so it fits together just right, I've ended up having to replace the inboard main ribs, the tip ribs and the front spar halves. They've changed from the original parts. Now, they're "pre-punched. That should save time, right? -Wrong....@*&@#$!!!!

If I weren't so bull-headed, I would've just bought a new tail-kit and started over. But, thats just not how I roll....
 
Timbeck2 said:
Just a WAG...you sell drugs out of it?
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Why does this seem out of proportion? That's only $120,000 per year. It's a decent salary, but it's hardly anything that's going to make someone independently wealthy. Given the expense of our hobby, I would expect that the median AGI of the folks on this board is closer to $250k-300k. Little will make you feel poorer than comparing yourself to others who fly! Certainly keeps my ego in check when I look around here.
 
My point apparently flew over your head. On more than one occasion he had expressed that he makes over ten grand a month out of his hangar without as much as an explanation. It was an attempt at goading him into one.


And if the median income of this board is $250 - 300k then I gratefully thank those of you who would let a comparative pauper like me grace you with my presence.
 
arnoha said:
Why does this seem out of proportion? That's only $120,000 per year. It's a decent salary, but it's hardly anything that's going to make someone independently wealthy. Given the expense of our hobby, I would expect that the median AGI of the folks on this board is closer to $250k-300k. Little will make you feel poorer than comparing yourself to others who fly! Certainly keeps5 my ego in check when I look around here.
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Yeah, I know those pilots have their employers in a strangle hold. $120,000 annually is going to lead to a comfortable retirement, that's what matters most. It was intended to be lighthearted, but thanks for reinforcing the fact that some pilots are pricks.
 
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My understanding was the SkyTec uses bushings instead of bearings. The B&C uses all bearings. There seems to be lots of threads on how fantastic SkyTec is at replacing starters that have gone south. The repair parts list for the Prestolite is a set of brushes. When the $11.00 from National Airparts bendix went south, the need to remove the alternator overcame the cheapness of the fix. It's only 4 bolts but don't want to do that again. Oh and B+ lead ring terminal just fell off the wire so it got replaced. Anyone need a presolite starter?
 
and the other good news is the alternator is now properly hung with washers on the correct sides of the nuts and bolts. Also properly tensioned bolts so the belt runs in a straight line and no rubbing on the front baffling
 
GlennAB1 said:
Yeah, I know those pilots have their employers in a strangle hold. $120,000 annually is going to lead to a comfortable retirement, that's what matters most. It was intended to be lighthearted, but thanks for reinforcing the fact that some pilots are pricks.
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A little confused...are you saying I'm being a prick? If so, I apologize. I wasn't intending to say anything pointed at anyone.
 
BigBadLou said:
The original starters had some design flaws and material flaws which could cause the "safety" shear pin to shear pretty often (rendering the starter inop) or introduce foreign matter inside the starter (rendering it inop again).
The rule of thumb for those is to just rebuild the starter during every annual to prevent getting stranded in the middle of nowhere due to a silly shear pin.

I hope they improved the design because if they are installing them on all Lycomings now, that would make many pilots unhappy.
Click to expand...

My Skytech has been fine for 15+ years now. YMMV
 
I know that there was a problem of people putting lightweight/featherweight Sky-Tec starters in their planes even though the manufacturer says it is okay only to have it shear with kickback. Mine isn't the lightweight starter although it is 4 pounds lighter than the Prestolite that came out of it. I have yet to start it as I'm still waiting on some parts to put it all back together.
 
Timbeck2 said:
My point apparently flew over your head. On more than one occasion he had expressed that he makes over ten grand a month out of his hangar without as much as an explanation. It was an attempt at goading him into one.


And if the median income of this board is $250 - 300k then I gratefully thank those of you who would let a comparative pauper like me grace you with my presence.
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The neat thing about aviation is it serves as somewhat a social equalizer against money, and you find the dirt farmer who can barely afford to keep his Tri Pacer flying kicking back in a hangar drinking beer with the guy who owns and flies the Citation.
 
I'm willing to bet that if the median income for this board was $250 - 300K then there would be a lot less Cherokees, RVs and 172s in people's avatars. ;)
 
Timbeck2 said:
I'm willing to bet that if the median income for this board was $250 - 300K then there would be a lot less Cherokees, RVs and 172s in people's avatars. ;)
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I'd say the median income of the aircraft owners/ long term pilots on the board is the $150k range. Even the Cherokee, 172, RV owners are mostly in the $70+k territory.
 
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