Professional Instrument Courses (PIC)

[AndyTowPilot]

Hey!

Does anyone have any firsthand experience as a student with these folks? It looks like a great option for someone in a hurry. I am a part time CFII-MEI that flies a desk fulltime and I'm also a Dad to a 2.5 year old. I have an instrument student that has gotten into a pretty tight training timeline to accommodate a flying opportunity he found. I'd like to do the right thing and let him finish his training with someone that can meet his timelines.

Thanks,
Andy

 

[1000RR]

I used PIC this past March. Did their 10-day IFR Course. It was great, well worth it. They will also customize it to something shorter if someone just needs a "finish up" course. They will usually send a SIM to your house and will use that to initially practice approaches, holds, etc. You can record 10hrs via their Sim. This saved me $2,500 in plane and fuel costs... so the price of the 10-day IFR course isn't quite as bad when you factor his in.

 

[Jim_R]

I used PIC ~10 years ago and was satisfied with the experience. I didn't love my particular instructor, but he was adequate, and I suspect he's probably retired by now anyway. The whole process was easy to arrange, met my schedule and budget constraints, and accomplished what it said it would accomplish: I passed the check ride with no issues.

Unfortunately, the weather during my instruction window was CAVU and I did not get the opportunity to fly in actual conditions, which made my first foray into the clouds a solo adventure that was a bit more uncomfortable than I would have wished. Of course I knew that might happen when I opted to use a system like PIC to get my rating. Had it been a big enough deal, I could certainly have put the rating in my pocket and waited until I could hire a CFII to hold my hand the first time I flew in IMC. It wasn't that I felt unprepared...I just had a little "fear of the unknown" due to my inexperience with actual conditions. I eventually took advantage of a mild, cloudy day to get my ticket wet, and it's been fine ever since.

 

[Clip4]

Hey!

Does anyone have any firsthand experience as a student with these folks? It looks like a great option for someone in a hurry. I am a part time CFII-MEI that flies a desk fulltime and I'm also a Dad to a 2.5 year old. I have an instrument student that has gotten into a pretty tight training timeline to accommodate a flying opportunity he found. I'd like to do the right thing and let him finish his training with someone that can meet his timelines.

Thanks,
Andy

You have 24/7 access to an well equipped and well maintained IFR airplane.
You are proficient flying and have passed the written preferably with at least 85%.
You have cleared your calendar of daily distractions and can dedicate yourself to the training.
The training location and season will allow only minimal weather problems.

Sure, any experienced CFI-I with 10 days availability can do it, but you are going to be mentally fatigued before the end of training and for some this fatigue will cause them to fail to complete in 10 days and much of the learning will only be short term for others.

 

[1000RR]

You have 24/7 access to an well equipped and well maintained IFR airplane.
You are proficient flying and have passed the written preferably with at least 85%.
You have cleared your calendar of daily distractions and can dedicate yourself to the training.
The training location and season will allow only minimal weather problems.

Sure, any experienced CFI-I with 10 days availability can do it, but you are going to be mentally fatigued before the end of training and for some this fatigue will cause them to fail to complete in 10 days and much of the learning will only be short term for others.

I'd agree with most of this but I don't think the fatiguing part is really much of an issue unless you have some other underlying health/sleep related concerns. I did the PIC in March and had a great instructor and it was broken up enough where we had ground school each day and flying each day. Flying was generally 2-3.5 hours per day. Don't get me wrong, that's plenty especially in a new environment like IFR, some new radio lingo, etc. but it's not like you're flying 8hrs per day the whole time. And some days we didn't fly at all. We probably had a few of those. The structured approach and manual that PIC provides does a great job of getting you through the requirements to fly IFR and pass your check ride. One thing you said that's definitely worthwhile stressing is your last part of your last sentence having to do with short term learning. I was told by some CFII friends and others - cramming all the materials into 10-days has the risk of being only in your short term memory. Sure you'll pass the IFR check ride, but will you really be able to fly IFR and have grasped the concepts - long term?! So I was told - after you pass your IFR check ride... file, file, file.... Fly IFR ALL THE TIME and get yourself "into the system" flying IFR and continue to engrain the concepts. I did this personally and continue to do it. I file every where I go with only a few exceptions. I spend a bit of time going through what-if scenarios at home, flying my GTN Trainer App, and trying to get in a process/habit inside the plane when flying and enroute or on approach even if it's not IMC of what would I do, when, how, etc. The point is - your NOT done after you pass your check ride. Keep learning, keep practicing, always striving to maintain proficiency, not just currency.

 

[Clip4]

You must have never noticed how pilots in instrument training having issues with simple addition and subtraction after a flight lesson.

 

[Jim_R]

... you are going to some people may become mentally fatigued before the end of training and for some this fatigue will cause them to fail to complete in 10 days and much of the learning will only be short term for others. Some people will handle the training and retain the information just fine.

FTFY.

 

[Clip4]

FTFY.

A 10 day program is far from ideal. Everyone doing a 10 accelerated instrument course will suffer from training fatigue, the learning curve loss is quite noticeable, and the retention is short term.

 

[1000RR]

A 10 day program is far from ideal. Everyone doing a 10 accelerated instrument course will suffer from training fatigue, the learning curve loss is quite noticeable, and the retention is short term.

Training fatigue happens with a lot of training (and can with just regular flying), not just instrument. As you are fully aware, any time there's task saturation especially unexpected or new tasks, the brain can tend to lock up (fatigue). We've all been there, I know I have. We get beyond this by repetition of those tasks which takes time... which is much of what you're suggesting (and I agree). But the time can be handled in different ways. A 10-day course being far from ideal may be true for some folks that just need to take it slower. But in the same context can be quite ideal in many ways for others that can bear down and work through the 10-day intense training course. Speaking of "ideal", the 2 years it took me to get my PPL (not self induced... much to that story that won't contribute to this topic much) was FAR from ideal. The 10-day I took earlier this year for my instrument (for me) was extremely ideal in that regard. I didn't take the potential downfalls lightly though (and still don't). The biggest potential downfall IMHO is the retention you spoke of. That part is real. For me, I mitigated this and continue to do so by weekly reviewing concepts, procedures, and flying IFR as much as I can. I read a lot on the related topics, continue to try and learn from others as well. Admittedly, I have no where near the flying pedigree you do, so I appreciate your insight and the perspective you bring to the table due to that. For me, the 10-day was very doable, I got to my checkride and passed the orals and practical, and have worked since then to continue engraining the concepts so I can continue to fly safely and proficiently withing "the system". I do the same with VFR/PPL focused concepts too - I'm always trying to learn something whether I'm walking around the plane, flying the plane, or simply sitting in my chair at home in front of a computer. If Andy (the OP) goes into this (or anyone else for that matter) with their eyes wide-open, I believe the risks can be mitigated and the individual can be successful (short term and long term).

 

[1000RR]

Hey!

Does anyone have any firsthand experience as a student with these folks? It looks like a great option for someone in a hurry. I am a part time CFII-MEI that flies a desk fulltime and I'm also a Dad to a 2.5 year old. I have an instrument student that has gotten into a pretty tight training timeline to accommodate a flying opportunity he found. I'd like to do the right thing and let him finish his training with someone that can meet his timelines.

Thanks,
Andy

Andy, I'm not sure if you have access to the magazine "Piper Flyer" or not, but in the September 2022 print, there's an full (very detailed) article (and review) of the GATTS 7-day Instrument Rating Course. GATTS is similar to PIC except you go to them instead of them (PIC) coming to you. GATTS has theirs structured in 7 days whereas PIC is 10 days. Anyway, the article is spread over about 7 pages and goes into the person's account of each day's training, their checkride, what they enjoyed, the things they would have done differently, etc. Might be worth a read?!

 

[Jim_R]

A 10 day program is far from ideal. Everyone doing a 10 accelerated instrument course will suffer from training fatigue, the learning curve loss is quite noticeable, and the retention is short term.

There are pros and cons to both the accelerated and "traditional" approaches to getting an IFR rating, and they've been discussed ad nauseum here and elsewhere. There is more to the accelerated process than just the events between the time the instructor first shows up and when the DPE takes your old certificate and hands you a new one. Your simple statement takes zero account of a student's preparation time prior to the arrival of the instructor or work to reinforce lessons learned after the instructor departs, nor differences between individual pilots' personalities or situations that might make one approach better than the other.

Accelerated programs have been around for decades, and I've seen no statistics showing that IR pilots who used such programs are killing themselves in actual conditions at any faster rate than others.