Private Airport Question

bluerooster said:
But not Closed period.

What would you do when the fan quits, and the only suitable landing spot is the long paved runway with big Xs on both ends?
I guess you would land/crash into the trees rather than violate FARs by landing on the closed runway?
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A guy at the airport where I live landed on I-80 when his fan quit.

That doesn't make I-80 an open runway.

Emergencies are a different thing than the question of whether you can land or shoot approaches at a private airport.
 
SoloEqs said:
I look forward to your explanation of how an airport which isn't open for use has runways which aren't closed.
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I look forward to you reading Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations and the relevant case law so you know what you're talking about. Until then, I'm done feeding this troll.
 
SoloEqs said:
Whatever you say, Ron.

I'd love to see you shoot approaches at El Mirage or Desert Rock and see how long you keep your ticket.
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El Mirage has no published restrictions. Desert Rock requires PPR from DoE for landing, but that's it. So, the FAA would have no grounds for enforcement action over low approaches in either case. Note that airport owners have no legal authority to regulate operations in the air over their property, only on their property. Only the FAA can regulate operations in the air, and there is no FAA regulation against operating in the air over a privately-owned airport.
 
Ron Levy said:
El Mirage has no published restrictions. Desert Rock requires PPR from DoE for landing, but that's it. So, the FAA would have no grounds for enforcement action over low approaches in either case. Note that airport owners have no legal authority to regulate operations in the air over their property, only on their property. Only the FAA can regulate operations in the air, and there is no FAA regulation against operating in the air over a privately-owned airport.
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It would probably be wise to stay 500' above in a sparsely pop. area and 1'000 above a highly populated area.
Also wise to not disturb someone at his private property as it promotes bad P.R. for GA.
Always ask a private owner for permission to use his runway or his pattern ,which by the way is not published so how do you know where it is?
My thoughts and suggestions as a private airport owner.
My airport 6Y9 is open to the public part of the year and we do recommend high speed low passes to scare off the deer,coyotes, turkeys, sandhill cranes,Canada geese etc.:hairraise: For Safety
 
SoloEqs said:
I look forward to your explanation of how an airport which isn't open for use has runways which aren't closed.
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An airport that is open to some aircraft and not others is not closed.
 
In general, in our regulatory scheme, that which is not prohibited is allowed. There is reasonable latitude for interpretation here. Let us say, then, that I land on a private field without permission; if the Owner of that field does not opt to complain, has there been a violation?

Common sense, though not always so very commonly-found, might well find a place in this conversation...
 
Palmpilot said:
An airport that is open to some aircraft and not others is not closed.
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It may be by invite only. as in the big ( P ) otherwise closed to the public.

so it would be 500' from any person or build yada yada….
 
SCCutler said:
In general, in our regulatory scheme, that which is not prohibited is allowed. There is reasonable latitude for interpretation here. Let us say, then, that I land on a private field without permission; if the Owner of that field does not opt to complain, has there been a violation?
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Whether or not the owner complains, there is no FAA violation, only trespass in violation of state/local law.
 
Ron Levy said:
Whether or not the owner complains, there is no FAA violation, only trespass in violation of state/local law.
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I disagree....

If I am mowing the grass on my PRIVATE runway and a plane comes over me doing a low pass... or lands and gets closer to me then 500 feet then the FAA will violate the offending pilot....

So technically.. I do own part of my airspace...:yes:;)
 
SCCutler said:
In general, in our regulatory scheme, that which is not prohibited is allowed. There is reasonable latitude for interpretation here. Let us say, then, that I land on a private field without permission; if the Owner of that field does not opt to complain, has there been a violation?
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No. If the owner (or operator) doesn't complain, your operations are approved and you're legal.
 
N801BH said:
I disagree....

If I am mowing the grass on my PRIVATE runway and a plane comes over me doing a low pass... or lands and gets closer to me then 500 feet then the FAA will violate the offending pilot....

So technically.. I do own part of my airspace...:yes:;)
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No, you do not. The violation in that case is a matter of the pilot violating a Federal regulation that does not differentiate between airports/non-airports or the ownership status of the airport. The fact that your runway is "private airport" does not change the situation at all, and it would be exactly the same if that happened at a public airport or a non-airport. The significant issue is that you cannot waive 91.119 on your private property -- if someone else sees and reports an airplane flown within 500 feet of you on your property, that pilot is in violation even if you say "Oh, it's OK, he had my permission to do it."
 
SoloEqs said:
If it is not open to YOU, it is closed to YOU, just like restricted airspace is closed, even though it may be used by authorized aircraft.
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'Closed to me' does not equal 'closed.'
 
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SoloEqs said:
Let me know when you're planning to shoot your approach, so that I can watch.
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I flew the ILS to Travis Air Force Base once. Nobody complained. I have flown the ILS to Moffett Federal Airfield MANY times. No complaints there either.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, you do not. The violation in that case is a matter of the pilot violating a Federal regulation that does not differentiate between airports/non-airports or the ownership status of the airport. The fact that your runway is "private airport" does not change the situation at all, and it would be exactly the same if that happened at a public airport or a non-airport. The significant issue is that you cannot waive 91.119 on your private property -- if someone else sees and reports an airplane flown within 500 feet of you on your property, that pilot is in violation even if you say "Oh, it's OK, he had my permission to do it."
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The parts I put in boldface are confusing to me. At Palo Alto Airport, given that there are usually people on the ramp, it is often impossible to land during daytime without getting closer to a person than 500 feet.
 
Palmpilot said:
The parts I put in boldface are confusing to me. At Palo Alto Airport, given that there are usually people on the ramp, it is often impossible to land during daytime without getting closer to a person than 500 feet.
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In that case, the takeoff/landing exception applies. In the case to which I was responding, I took "low pass" to mean a buzz job, in which case 91.119 would apply regardless of the status of the ground location. If it was taking off/landing or doing a low approach, 91.119 would not apply, but 91.13 careless/reckless might if the poster was on the runway being used -- regardless of private/public airport status.
 
Palmpilot said:
I flew the ILS to Travis Air Force Base once. Nobody complained. I have flown the ILS to Moffett Federal Airfield MANY times. No complaints there either.
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The last time I was there, El Mirage was operated by General Atomics. They have no ILS, but also have no sense of humor. Even with preclearance, it's a 10-minute wait at the end of the runway while they verify your clearance, your ID, plane registration and that you have no unauthorized cameras or recording equipment. I dunno what they do if you only shoot the approach, or land without permission.

The people at Mercury make the El Mirage guys look like the Welcome Wagon. Shoot your approach there without preclearance, and you will have a bunch of new friends, WHEREVER you go to land. Land there without preclearance, and when you finally get to take your plane out, it will be on a trailer.
 
SoloEqs said:
The people at Mercury make the El Mirage guys look like the Welcome Wagon. Shoot your approach there without preclearance, and you will have a bunch of new friends, WHEREVER you go to land.
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Anyone can follow you all they want, but since that airport is not in Special Use Airspace, with no warnings on the sectional chart, there is nothing under the law they can do if you merely fly over it at a legal altitude.
 
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