Private Aero. Experience Requirements

[bqmassey]

Here's the reg:

(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.107(b)(1) of this part, and the training must include at least--

(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a single-engine airplane;

(2) Except as provided in Sec. 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a single-engine airplane that includes--

(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total distance; and

(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport.

(3) 3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments, including straight and level flight, constant airspeed climbs and descents, turns to a heading, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, radio communications, and the use of navigation systems/facilities and radar services appropriate to instrument flight;

(4) 3 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor in a single-engine airplane in preparation for the practical test, which must have been performed within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and



My question is in regards to the portion that states "20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor". Is there anything, anywhere in the regs that suggests that these 20 hours are required to all be A-SEL? It doesn't say it there, and directly below it explains exactly what is required to be A-SEL. Those individual requirements add up to 12 hours, if none are concurrent. By the way that I read this, 8 hours of dual from another category COULD be used to meet this minimum.

 

[poadeleted20]

My question is in regards to the portion that states "20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor". Is there anything, anywhere in the regs that suggests that these 20 hours are required to all be A-SEL?

No, there isn't, and they aren't. You can count training in other categories/classes towards the total of 20.

It doesn't say it there, and directly below it explains exactly what is required to be A-SEL. Those individual requirements add up to 12 hours, if none are concurrent.

Actually, some could be done concurrently, such as night and XC, or night and instrument, or instrument and test prep. In fact, the FAA requires one dual XC at night, and an instructor would have to do some hoodwork as part of test prep in order to be sure you're ready for the test, which includes hood work. However, I suspect that in most cases, you'd surpass 12 hours of training before you reached sufficient proficiency to pass the PP-Airplane practical test in an ASEL aircraft.

By the way that I read this, 8 hours of dual from another category COULD be used to meet this minimum.

They could indeed, and many folks getting an additional category rating (e.g., PP-RH adding ASEL) do so all the time.

 

[Apache123]

A few hours towards my dual-time was in my instructor's aztec. HP/Complex/Multi. In theory you could do some of that in a king air or beyond. Even your solo.

 

[poadeleted20]

A few hours towards my dual-time was in my instructor's aztec. HP/Complex/Multi. In theory you could do some of that in a king air or beyond. Even your solo.

Yes, for an initial PP with AMEL, but not if you're going for ASEL. The 10 hours of required solo time must be in class, not just category.

(5) 10 hours of solo flight time in a single-engine airplane, ...

 

[bqmassey]

Thanks for the replies.

My FSDO thinks differently (or at least the inspector that I spoke to on the phone today) as well as the DPE that turned a friend of mine away at his checkride due to not having 20 hours dual in an airplane.

 

[poadeleted20]

Thanks for the replies.

My FSDO thinks differently (or at least the inspector that I spoke to on the phone today) as well as the DPE that turned a friend of mine away at his checkride due to not having 20 hours dual in an airplane.

They're both wrong. Ask them to confirm their positions with AFS-810 IAW with the policy letter from AFS-1 -- that should fix the problem. If they refuse, contact the FSDO manager with the same request, and point out that their answers conflict with the plain reading of the regulation.

 

[nosehair]

What everyone says has always been the financially popular way of interpreting the opening statement of the part 61 certification requirement regs, however, I have noticed a recent trend to recognize the (I think) intent of the wording, "20 hours dual and 10 hours solo in operations listed in 61.107(b)(1)"

Now, the 61.107(b)(1) is operations in a single-engine airplane.

I think that is the way they are reading it now.

I always did.

 

[poadeleted20]

What everyone says has always been the financially popular way of interpreting the opening statement of the part 61 certification requirement regs, however, I have noticed a recent trend to recognize the (I think) intent of the wording, "20 hours dual and 10 hours solo in operations listed in 61.107(b)(1)"

That's not what the regulation says. The actual wording is:

...at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.107(b)(1) of this part...

It is only the five items broken out below that which must be in category/class, as it is specifically stated in those five subparagraphs. If it were otherwise, the specification that those five items had to be in category/class would be superfluous, and those subsidiary specifications would have been omitted.

Now, the 61.107(b)(1) is operations in a single-engine airplane.

I think that is the way they are reading it now.

I always did.

That's the way John Lynch read it in his original response to the field in the Part 61 FAQ file. Then the Chief Counsel's office told him he was wrong -- that only the training requirements which specifically say they must be in category/class must be flown in category/class. John's original response was then removed from that file. If you need confirmation, you can get it via your local FSDO, which has this information in their current edition Part 61 FAQ file, or can get it from AFS-810.