Prickett-Grooms Flying Club

E

el con

Line Up and Wait
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The Flied Piper
I recently got in a discussion about the old school bldg. next to the Prickett Grooms Airfield and what and when we might do something with it.
A Real Estate person (who would not be involved) suggested a club where investors/members would pay x amount to be members and have privledges of using the ficility .They had a non aviation themed version of this in the Chicago area.
I envision 8-10 rooms ,bathrooms set up like some european common use,
common kitchen area, common (small gymnasium) living room( size of a small basketball court) and some other sitting room type areas.
Probably some yearly dues to care of maintenece ,cleaning ,repairs ,insurance ,etc.

Since the runway is not plowed, we could defer some of the cost to snowmobilers the other half of the year.
I guess flying club in the summer,snowmobile club in the winter.

The Old Sidnaw School for those who have not seen it is a 9000 sq. ft Brick two story and we would probably add a partial 3rd floor incorporated into a new pitched roof, it would be completly gutted and all new but appropriate interior constructed, new wiring,plumbing, windows,etc.
Any serious comments or thoughts from a pilots prospective would be appreciated. ( This is in no way meant to be an advertisement just looking for some solid input.)
 
If I lived in, say, Detroit or Madison, that would be a great option and I'd go for it. For where I am, it's too far for me to use.
 
That kind of sounds like a timeshare. I like to go to different places on my time off, so the whole timeshare concept has never really appealed to me. I guess it would depend on how much a membership would cost/year or per room night.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
If I lived in, say, Detroit or Madison, that would be a great option and I'd go for it. For where I am, it's too far for me to use.
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Said by the man who flew 7000 miles in a week in his twin :D:D

Brad,

It is an intriguing idea but to make it really work it would need to go to people who would be coming through on a regular basis. Is there enough pull from part timers to the Sidnaw area for something like this?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
If I lived in, say, Detroit or Madison, that would be a great option and I'd go for it. For where I am, it's too far for me to use.
Click to expand...
Good point Ted, this would seem to me to maybe be a place that pilot's would come and stay from a few days or a week or so.
Also we're close to Oshkosh for the big bash there ,and pilots might be interested in fishing, canoeing, and other stuff in the great outdoors.
 
Sounds like too much for such an isolated area, unless there really are that many people using it. I can't see it as a big destination without access to something worth visiting, i.e. water or other recreational opportunities. I don't mean to diss the airport, but there are plenty of small isolated grass strips once can visit in an airplane. What is so special about 6Y9 that it would attract such investment? Sorry play devil's advocate.
 
ScottM said:
Said by the man who flew 7000 miles in a week in his twin :D:D
Click to expand...

True, but remember that was work, and Brad is talking about pleasure. I realize that to many people I have an odd definition of the word "work", but believe me, it was. It just happened to be extremely enjoyable work. :)

el con said:
Good point Ted, this would seem to me to maybe be a place that pilot's would come and stay from a few days or a week or so.
Also we're close to Oshkosh for the big bash there ,and pilots might be interested in fishing, canoeing, and other stuff in the great outdoors.
Click to expand...

I could see that making sense. Like John, I saw it worded as more of a tiemshare or rental kind of setup. If you set it up as a hotel where people didn't feel like they had to use it, I could see that making more sense.

I would go into it not expecting to be lucrative, but if it's a labor of love, it sounds like a fun one.
 
Trapper John said:
That kind of sounds like a timeshare. I like to go to different places on my time off, so the whole timeshare concept has never really appealed to me. I guess it would depend on how much a membership would cost/year or per room night.
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Yes, when this guy told me about this idea I thought timeshare also.
I've never been too interested in a timeshare. We go to our cabin in Sidnaw regularly, but on vacations in others areas just once or twice a year.
I'm about ready to check into cost as that will be reflected on what we do to the building. The club aspect intrigued me as a meeting place for people with like interests. Small town,kind of unique, also probably not for everyone.
 
ScottM said:
Said by the man who flew 7000 miles in a week in his twin :D:D

Brad,

It is an intriguing idea but to make it really work it would need to go to people who would be coming through on a regular basis. Is there enough pull from part timers to the Sidnaw area for something like this?
Click to expand...

Well, there are many people who come to the area to enjoy the north, most of them have a lot more invested in their cabins ,cottages,etc., than one would in a club like this. I realize as pilots we have the freedom to fly many places rather quickly and many like to experience many different places. Some may prefer to go to a normally quite out of the way place to relax at a known facility. I know we go back to our place every other week or so and never seem to get bored. Heck I just figured out I've been going to Sidnaw many times a year for about 52 years now.
This might be like a mini fly -in every week.
I dunno might work ,might not. I just thought it would be a shame to not use it's location right next to the airport.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
True, but remember that was work, and Brad is talking about pleasure. I realize that to many people I have an odd definition of the word "work", but believe me, it was. It just happened to be extremely enjoyable work. :)



I could see that making sense. Like John, I saw it worded as more of a tiemshare or rental kind of setup. If you set it up as a hotel where people didn't feel like they had to use it, I could see that making more sense.

I would go into it not expecting to be lucrative, but if it's a labor of love, it sounds like a fun one.
Click to expand...

I'm not expecting to make anything on this , there's nothing lucrative about any properties in the area,just a place for some to get away from it all without the comercial world around. No amusement rides (other than the hay wagon:wink2:,no go-cart tracks, no chinese trinket filled gift shops.
 
steingar said:
Sounds like too much for such an isolated area, unless there really are that many people using it. I can't see it as a big destination without access to something worth visiting, i.e. water or other recreational opportunities. I don't mean to diss the airport, but there are plenty of small isolated grass strips once can visit in an airplane. What is so special about 6Y9 that it would attract such investment? Sorry play devil's advocate.
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If you ate meat you'd know. ;) Hunting is a big thing up there. Those two cabins near the strip, always rented out for hunting season and for snowmobile season. Sidnaw is ths intersection of two main snowmobile trails. There's a crap-ton of lakes and streams, a wilderness hiking trail that runs the entire length of the UP if I am not mistaken. Leave a couple quads up there, a club car/truck, a couple canoes, boat, etc. How many grass strips are going to give you the ability to do that?
 
el con said:
I'm not expecting to make anything on this , there's nothing lucrative about any properties in the area,just a place for some to get away from it all without the comercial world around. No amusement rides (other than the hay wagon:wink2:,no go-cart tracks, no chinese trinket filled gift shops.
Click to expand...

And of course you're going at it with the right attitude. I'd go for it. I think there's a lot of appeal for a lot of people, and it would probably grow with time. Besides, that school house is a great building. If nothing else, I'd think you'd see some good response from people who wanted to use it at 6Y9, but it would make the north a lot more accessible for a lot of people.

Although at that point, there might be a cause to consider a car being available, since people like me would otherwise be without transport if you or Diz weren't around.
 
EdFred said:
If you ate meat you'd know. ;) Hunting is a big thing up there. Those two cabins near the strip, always rented out for hunting season and for snowmobile season. Sidnaw is ths intersection of two main snowmobile trails. There's a crap-ton of lakes and streams, a wilderness hiking trail that runs the entire length of the UP if I am not mistaken. Leave a couple quads up there, a club car/truck, a couple canoes, boat, etc. How many grass strips are going to give you the ability to do that?
Click to expand...

Based on my own observations I would have to say that 6Y9 does not give a pilot those opportunities unless there is motorized transport available. If I am mistaken it is only because my hosts did a poor job of showing me around. :D
 
el con said:
Good point Ted, this would seem to me to maybe be a place that pilot's would come and stay from a few days or a week or so.
Also we're close to Oshkosh for the big bash there ,and pilots might be interested in fishing, canoeing, and other stuff in the great outdoors.
Click to expand...

If this were the case, including some mode of ground transportation as a part of the club or a parking lot/storage area for beaters/toys would be essential for going fishing, canoeing and other great outdoor stuff as very few planes can fit a canoe.
 
No car is needed at the airstrip, a quad or snow machine would be nice. But I am not sure there is a business case that makes sense for that expenditure.

But there is probably a biz case for either one of those machines for the club. This is an expenditure that could be factored into the membership dues.

I think it is an intriguing idea, as Ed has said there is a lot of outdoor sports there that transients might be attracted to. I am curious about the hassle factor. That is how much work is this club going to be for Brad and Diz. Would it be too much that they really would rather there be some sort of manager? If that is the case then what when the dues are raised to cover that does the potential market crumble?

I know a few years ago when there was an idea running around to put some condos in the school I was intrigued enough to run some numbers for my own purchase of such a condo. The idea was to leave a car/quad up there and commute on weekends via the airstrip.
 
steingar said:
Based on my own observations I would have to say that 6Y9 does not give a pilot those opportunities unless there is motorized transport available. If I am mistaken it is only because my hosts did a poor job of showing me around. :D
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If there were a club that owned the hostel/condo, they could afford the insurance for a car and possibly make it available to pilots. The other option is enough donated money to pay for the insurance on a courtesy car. ;)
 
ScottM said:
No car is needed at the airstrip, a quad or snow machine would be nice. But I am not sure there is a business case that makes sense for that expenditure.

But there is probably a biz case for either one of those machines for the club. This is an expenditure that could be factored into the membership dues.

I think it is an intriguing idea, as Ed has said there is a lot of outdoor sports there that transients might be attracted to. I am curious about the hassle factor. That is how much work is this club going to be for Brad and Diz. Would it be too much that they really would rather there be some sort of manager? If that is the case then what when the dues are raised to cover that does the potential market crumble?

I know a few years ago when there was an idea running around to put some condos in the school I was intrigued enough to run some numbers for my own purchase of such a condo. The idea was to leave a car/quad up there and commute on weekends via the airstrip.
Click to expand...

I think my thoughts are in line with Scott's and Teds. It sounds as if the hassel factor of reservations. liabilty keeping up with dues Mx on quads etc would be problematic.

I don't think Sidnaw gets enough air traffic to make it work for pilots but The Snowmobiling and hunting may make it feisable I just don't know the numbers there. I just don't know what the local ( wtih in a 300 mile radius ) would support. I'm really thinking condos or rental apts would be much easier.
 
steingar said:
I believe a courtesy car is a non-starter.
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I realize the discussion was brought up before and it was determined as not feasible, but it's a bit different if you're talking about a hotel/condo/timeshare setup that has people paying into it.

I think Scott's suggestion about a quad is probably a better one, though, and one I hadn't thought about. It provides sufficient (probably better) functionality with lower cost.
 
steingar said:
Sounds like too much for such an isolated area, unless there really are that many people using it. I can't see it as a big destination without access to something worth visiting, i.e. water or other recreational opportunities. I don't mean to diss the airport, but there are plenty of small isolated grass strips once can visit in an airplane. What is so special about 6Y9 that it would attract such investment? Sorry play devil's advocate.
Click to expand...
Well the point is instead of investing in a cabin of $100,000 + one could enjoy the area for maybe just a few thousand as an investment. It doesn't mean you couldn't still bring your tent and rough it, but stay in a nicer place with some protection from the elements.
True,isolated,small. As far as attractions goes there seems to be enough for all the cabin people to do,hunt ,fish,snowmobile, ATV, watch wild life such as bears, deer,coyote,moose,eagles and on and on,canoe or boat in hundreds of lakes in the area,hike, sightsee waterfalls,swim and so on.
Probably not for the true city slickers, but there's always something to do there. The club may end up with atv's ,canoe's , on road vehicle's ,trail bikes,mountain bikes and so on. Sorry, no flush toilets or trail mix dispensers on the hiking trial here. Just wild huckleberries,blackberries,and raspberries and go out behind a tree in the woods like the bears do:wink2:.
I have seen and have personally found that if you invest in something you use it and take care of it, if someone else invest's in it you might use it and some trash it. That in a remote area such as this usually means failure, investing means commitment, commitment leads to use.
Personally I stay away from,plays,musicals,opera,social network parties and all the fu fu stuff associated with big cities and college towns.
I like the outdoors ,a little dirt,a little sweat,a little fish slime,catch or shoot something and eat it, a little more real nature vs.the "new" human nature that society has fallen to. Then again thanks for the input,different strokes for different folks. Wouldn't you be bored if everyone in your class all thought the same,all learned the same way, it would be a pathetic world.
Really I appreciated your input though, it's all being collected for review,Thanks.
 
If you do this haveing an outdoor area with fire pit would be essential. It's not going out into the wood without a camp fire.

Edit: I believe you added one near the runway but one nearer the school might be in order for the condo/timeshare whatever they are...
 
ScottM said:
No car is needed at the airstrip, a quad or snow machine would be nice. But I am not sure there is a business case that makes sense for that expenditure.

But there is probably a biz case for either one of those machines for the club. This is an expenditure that could be factored into the membership dues.

I think it is an intriguing idea, as Ed has said there is a lot of outdoor sports there that transients might be attracted to. I am curious about the hassle factor. That is how much work is this club going to be for Brad and Diz. Would it be too much that they really would rather there be some sort of manager? If that is the case then what when the dues are raised to cover that does the potential market crumble?

Scott, the condo idea seemed to be a good one but then when someone asked how much and we said in the $70-90K range, the interest faded.
So, maybe since most won't use it enough to justify that, it may be easier to get 50 people to invest $6000 than 6 people to invest$ 70k-90k. The difference between the $50k and the 70 to 90k is the common facilities with the club idea.
And yes there would be a "club" manager to handle it all. The Frederick's would then just enjoy everyone company that fly's in instead of us hosting,planning etc.:cheerswine:
Anyone having membership could leave there own vehicles,toys,etc. within reason of course or club equipment could be the answer.
Click to expand...
 
el con said:
Well the point is instead of investing in a cabin of $100,000 + one could enjoy the area for maybe just a few thousand as an investment. It doesn't mean you couldn't still bring your tent and rough it, but stay in a nicer place with some protection from the elements.
True,isolated,small. As far as attractions goes there seems to be enough for all the cabin people to do,hunt ,fish,snowmobile, ATV, watch wild life such as bears, deer,coyote,moose,eagles and on and on,canoe or boat in hundreds of lakes in the area,hike, sightsee waterfalls,swim and so on.
Probably not for the true city slickers, but there's always something to do there. The club may end up with atv's ,canoe's , on road vehicle's ,trail bikes,mountain bikes and so on. Sorry, no flush toilets or trail mix dispensers on the hiking trial here. Just wild huckleberries,blackberries,and raspberries and go out behind a tree in the woods like the bears do:wink2:.
I have seen and have personally found that if you invest in something you use it and take care of it, if someone else invest's in it you might use it and some trash it. That in a remote area such as this usually means failure, investing means commitment, commitment leads to use.
Personally I stay away from,plays,musicals,opera,social network parties and all the fu fu stuff associated with big cities and college towns.
I like the outdoors ,a little dirt,a little sweat,a little fish slime,catch or shoot something and eat it, a little more real nature vs.the "new" human nature that society has fallen to. Then again thanks for the input,different strokes for different folks. Wouldn't you be bored if everyone in your class all thought the same,all learned the same way, it would be a pathetic world.
Really I appreciated your input though, it's all being collected for review,Thanks.
Click to expand...

I am kinda getting that you think a bunch of city slickers would have little appreciation for charms of the UP, and for all I know you're correct, though you certainly don't speak for he who is Steingar. However, for a pilot to engage in all those activities you mention, said pilot needs a means of transportation once on the grounds, as a number of people have intimated. Ted is correct in that a courtesy vehicle of some sort might be more feasible in the club sort of arrangement.

The last thing I will mention to rain on your parade is that for pilots the season is quite a bit more limited than for those who are likely to drive up, hence the amount of resources they would be willing to commit might be likewise diminished. On the other hand, tourism and recreation are likely a large part of the UP economy, so setting up a tourism outlet does make some sense, and there might even be development funds available from the state for the savvy individual with good a business plan.
 
Is rehabbing an old school really less expensive than building a handful of simple cabins plus a central building with the other facilities? I guess only a proforma would tell.
 
steingar said:
I am kinda getting that you think a bunch of city slickers would have little appreciation for charms of the UP, and for all I know you're correct, though you certainly don't speak for he who is Steingar. However, for a pilot to engage in all those activities you mention, said pilot needs a means of transportation once on the grounds, as a number of people have intimated. Ted is correct in that a courtesy vehicle of some sort might be more feasible in the club sort of arrangement.

The last thing I will mention to rain on your parade is that for pilots the season is quite a bit more limited than for those who are likely to drive up, hence the amount of resources they would be willing to commit might be likewise diminished. On the other hand, tourism and recreation are likely a large part of the UP economy, so setting up a tourism outlet does make some sense, and there might even be development funds available from the state for the savvy individual with good a business plan.
Click to expand...
True:
and input is noted.
 
Honestly, if we were still in Iowa (or other midwesterly areas), and I had access to some sort of off-road ground transportation up there, I could see myself heading to 6Y9 for a long weekend a couple times per year. I would really like to be able to get out and explore the area more than they typical "fly-in tourist route" ;).

If there was access to hunting in the pre-snow fall season, I could definitely see myself heading up for some of that action.

As far as how much would I be willing to pay... That all depends on how much access was available to ground transportation up there.
 
Trapper John said:
Is rehabbing an old school really less expensive than building a handful of simple cabins plus a central building with the other facilities? I guess only a proforma would tell.
Click to expand...

No, not less expensive, but I think the school is worth saving. It was built in 1923 and is one of the two notable landmark left in town.
Finding a useful purpose for the building would in my opinion be a worthy cause. The location makes it a natural for airport related use and in using it for that keeps out the others who may want to dismantle the airport and it's use. I believe at first it may seem cheaper to build ten little cabin's and have a facilities building, but down the road keeping up the big single school building would be a better choice.
At the present time I have a lot invested in the area, building a 4-6k little cabin for some pilots to use a few days out of the year makes no sense at least for me. Leaving a courtesy car available to any pilot who may fly in pay $1400 a year insurance and have a huge liability makes no sense. Leaving an ATV at around 5or 6 k and the liability associated makes no sense. 6Y9 is funded by me personally, there are no taxpayer dollars funneled in ,no municipal insurance unbrella to hide under. In certain way's thats good as they don't dictate policy.
I figure I have $150-200k invested in the area myself for my use and the fun of it. Just thought others could enjoy similar use for a small fraction of that cost. I know people who spend more on a one week cruise than the small investment one would make into the school building ,share costs with others and still have a tangible investment with a worth instead of just pictures of themselves on a big boat. Those used Cruise ticket's are pretty worthless after one use.
The arrangement on the actual airport property when we bought it was that the land would not be sold ,and would be a bad investment to put housing on the field proper for other parties, that land we're saving for hanger's and aircraft parking. Kind of a dog chasing it's tail, you need pilots for hangers and you need hangers to get pilots.
One word from pevious post's sums it up. Commitment
If someone has interest, visit, if you like commit ,if you dislike you disembark.
Then again you gotta love the area, gotta love to fly to it, and gotta have the time to use it. It's not for everyone,just knuckleheads like me:thumbsup:
 
CJones said:
Honestly, if we were still in Iowa (or other midwesterly areas), and I had access to some sort of off-road ground transportation up there, I could see myself heading to 6Y9 for a long weekend a couple times per year. I would really like to be able to get out and explore the area more than they typical "fly-in tourist route" ;).

If there was access to hunting in the pre-snow fall season, I could definitely see myself heading up for some of that action.

As far as how much would I be willing to pay... That all depends on how much access was available to ground transportation up there.
Click to expand...

As I have noticed all over the northern midwest almost every airport has a number of cars,trucks, and Suv's sitting in the airport parking lot.( I leave mine at my cabin and walk over) They belong to the pilots who fly in,not the airport. If I provide one courtesy car and you use it for a day, a weekend ,a week? ,how many other pilots will be SOL when then fly in at the same time and it's gone. How would I police the use,abuse, at an unattended field? Courtesy cars are usually restricted to an hour or so not meant to be a free rental car for the full stay.
If anyone wishes to bring and leave there own car they are more than welcome. I will provide a parking lot for the "beaters" as we call them. You will always be asured of wheels when you get there and for the time needed. You may then lend them to other pilots you trust.
I truly have had more than 25 pilots interested in a courtesy car, how many do I provide? Sorry all we have right now is bikes:dunno:
Buy a $500-$1000 beater, leave it, oh jeez ,now I gotta mow around it:wink2:
 
Missa said:
If you do this haveing an outdoor area with fire pit would be essential. It's not going out into the wood without a camp fire.

Edit: I believe you added one near the runway but one nearer the school might be in order for the condo/timeshare whatever they are...
Click to expand...

No, we didn't add one yet ,someone burned a hole in our grass very close to the pilot shack last year. Which by the way has not sprouted one replacement blade to date:sad:.( the accelerant used killed the roots and sterelized the soil)
We will have one this year if conditions permit, the National Forest Service frowns on open fires in dry conditions and we're not there all the time to police or regulate so a permenent pit is yet to come. Counting on the possibility of the PIC to monitor current surface weather conditions on the field while being affected by intoxicants is highly possible, from last years experience with the PIC :incazzato:(PYRO IN Command) we are going to supervise a little closer:D. I now have access to a Tazer gun:ihih:
 
Hold It!!
New idea 6Y9 will lease you land on the airport to build a hanger. You then fill it with anything you like :cars, trucks , boat's, quads, and use them when you get there.
Maybe loan them to me , I'll sell all my stuff and put the money in the bank, maybe then I can retire some day:)
 
It's an interesting idea and a fun area. If I had an airplane and money burning a hole in my pocket I'd seriously consider it. Talk to me in a few years....
 
el con said:
Hold It!!
New idea 6Y9 will lease you land on the airport to build a hanger. You then fill it with anything you like :cars, trucks , boat's, quads, and use them when you get there.
Maybe loan them to me , I'll sell all my stuff and put the money in the bank, maybe then I can retire some day:)
Click to expand...
Tell me when you're ready:cornut:.
I've got a posthole digger for the tractor and the lumber yard is not far away. Maybe a bunch of POA members kick in and we all have a hanger raising party. New POA WORLD HEADQUARTERS:thumbsup:
 
el con said:
As I have noticed all over the northern midwest almost every airport has a number of cars,trucks, and Suv's sitting in the airport parking lot.( I leave mine at my cabin and walk over) They belong to the pilots who fly in,not the airport. If I provide one courtesy car and you use it for a day, a weekend ,a week? ,how many other pilots will be SOL when then fly in at the same time and it's gone. How would I police the use,abuse, at an unattended field? Courtesy cars are usually restricted to an hour or so not meant to be a free rental car for the full stay.
If anyone wishes to bring and leave there own car they are more than welcome. I will provide a parking lot for the "beaters" as we call them. You will always be asured of wheels when you get there and for the time needed. You may then lend them to other pilots you trust.
I truly have had more than 25 pilots interested in a courtesy car, how many do I provide? Sorry all we have right now is bikes:dunno:
Buy a $500-$1000 beater, leave it, oh jeez ,now I gotta mow around it:wink2:
Click to expand...

I was thinking more about - if I were to buy a share in the building/club, if the 'club' owned a few 4-wheelers and/or a road vehicle, I would be more inclined to visit throughout the year. Not implying that the 'airport' should provide transportation.
 
jesse said:
If I had an airplane and money burning a hole in my pocket
Click to expand...

Just a note to affirm that is a self correcting condition...no other distractions are required.
 
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