Prices are coming down

Dan Thomas said:
Late model? 37 years old? Is the GA fleet really that ancient?

Granted, the price is low, but I didn't see a total time given. Could be a 20,000-hour airframe.


Dan
Click to expand...

I've seen the early 172s that low but an "M" ? yes they are that old.
 
Oh, that's just mean -- I just told myself I was not going to buy another plane.

I'm hoping for some truly hideous specs. 4k SMOH and 22k TTAF. Sheet metal like paper mache', engine like a possessed clothes dryer.
 
PLEASE BE CAREFUL WITH THIS

I am in communication with the seller, and I am 90% sure this is a wire fraud scam involving SquareTrade (who is not an escrow agent)

I should be 100% sure in the next few email exchanges.

I am in a bizarre email situation where I was emailed a picture of an email address, and upon sending him a request for specs, I got this:

==
Hi Mike,
The price is [SIZE=+0]$15800. About 2800TT, 800SMOH. Is in very good shape, it has been well maintained, flown regulary, and has given excellent service with no problems. I will send you some photos in the next email. I can deliver it to your shipping address (i will pay for the shipping and insurance fees) and i will agree to let you test and inspect it for 5 days just to be sure. In this 5 days you will test the conditions of the car. If something won't be like you expected to be you can return it without any expense. It will come with all the paper work.
The payment will be made through bank wire transfer. The deal will go through eBay motors and Square Trade. In this way both of us will have the required assurance that the deal will take place well. A refund policy will be included. Thanks[/SIZE]


==

A phone call to the registered address in Florida has been answered with "we dont know anything about any airplane"

I'm sleuthing... but be careful if you're interested in this plane.

$0.02

- Mike
 
Hmm..Sounds like a very poorly attempted scam. The description also says it is past TBO whereas what you received via e-mail says 800 SMOH.
 
Indeed, I just hate crying foul unless I'm positive, which I'll never be.

Am stringing the conversation out a bit to see if he confirms in any interesting way.
 
Those pictures also don't look like they were taken in Arizona. Registration said owned by Aerotex.
 
schmookeeg said:
PLEASE BE CAREFUL WITH THIS

I am in communication with the seller, and I am 90% sure this is a wire fraud scam involving SquareTrade (who is not an escrow agent)

I should be 100% sure in the next few email exchanges.

I am in a bizarre email situation where I was emailed a picture of an email address, and upon sending him a request for specs, I got this:

==
Hi Mike,
The price is $15800. About 2800TT, 800SMOH. Is in very good shape, it has been well maintained, flown regulary, and has given excellent service with no problems. I will send you some photos in the next email. I can deliver it to your shipping address (i will pay for the shipping and insurance fees) and i will agree to let you test and inspect it for 5 days just to be sure. In this 5 days you will test the conditions of the car. If something won't be like you expected to be you can return it without any expense. It will come with all the paper work.
The payment will be made through bank wire transfer. The deal will go through eBay motors and Square Trade. In this way both of us will have the required assurance that the deal will take place well. A refund policy will be included. Thanks


==

A phone call to the registered address in Florida has been answered with "we dont know anything about any airplane"

I'm sleuthing... but be careful if you're interested in this plane.

$0.02

- Mike
Click to expand...


Huh??
 
Kinda like the Garmin GMX200 for sale in Indonesia? Guy is ready to ship...
 
Yeah, it's a scam. My bro-in-law called me last weekend about a car for sale on Craigslist for some ridiculously low price. Supposedly some lady wanting to unload it after getting a divorce.

The whole "we'll do it through Ebay for your protection" (ahem) is the key. They wanted his name and address so Ebay could open a "case file" for it. Ebay does not do that; they only offer buyer protection for items sold through their online auctions. What happens next is you get a spoofed email looking like it comes from Ebay and you're supposed to send $$$ through Western Union or some other you-are-screwed method.
 
schmookeeg said:
PLEASE BE CAREFUL WITH THIS

I am in communication with the seller, and I am 90% sure this is a wire fraud scam involving SquareTrade (who is not an escrow agent)

I should be 100% sure in the next few email exchanges.

I am in a bizarre email situation where I was emailed a picture of an email address, and upon sending him a request for specs, I got this:

==
Hi Mike,
The price is [SIZE=+0]$15800. About 2800TT, 800SMOH. Is in very good shape, it has been well maintained, flown regulary, and has given excellent service with no problems. I will send you some photos in the next email. I can deliver it to your shipping address (i will pay for the shipping and insurance fees) and i will agree to let you test and inspect it for 5 days just to be sure. In this 5 days you will test the conditions of the car. If something won't be like you expected to be you can return it without any expense. It will come with all the paper work.
The payment will be made through bank wire transfer. The deal will go through eBay motors and Square Trade. In this way both of us will have the required assurance that the deal will take place well. A refund policy will be included. Thanks[/SIZE]


==

A phone call to the registered address in Florida has been answered with "we dont know anything about any airplane"

I'm sleuthing... but be careful if you're interested in this plane.

$0.02

- Mike
Click to expand...

That right there should tell you everything you need to know. They mixed up their pre-made emails for potential fish. You see the same thing, be it Cars, Planes, Jet Skis, etc. I was looking for a recent model Jet Ski and a guy was claiming to sell two 2008 models for somewhere around 70% of the value. Nothing that would make you dismiss it outright, but definitely made you go "What's wrong with it?" and the responding email was pretty much like yours. The individual is either moved and the stuff is in storage or they conveniently are out of town but need to sell it and assure you they can get it to you. If you feel like it, you can always report them to the website the plane is on. If you've gotten scammed, you can report the activity to the FBI: http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
 
wbarnhill said:
If you feel like it, you can always report them to the website the plane is on. If you've gotten scammed, you can report the activity to the FBI: http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
Click to expand...

Ya, I reported it to the website. With my spidey sense as tingly as it was, that would have only been a "cash for bill of sale" deal, and even then, I'd have probably tried to get his notarized sig or something on the bill of sale, so I had some sort of ID/thumbprint to work from if the deal went loopy.

That's actually a scary part of buying airplanes, isn't it -- the title and paper trail situation is awfully weak. Any of my planes could have had a "real owner" pop up at any time after purchase and demand keys... ugh.
 
Mike AOPA has a great title search service that is well worth the $ in peace of mind.
 
rpadula said:
Yeah, it's a scam. My bro-in-law called me last weekend about a car for sale on Craigslist for some ridiculously low price. Supposedly some lady wanting to unload it after getting a divorce.

The whole "we'll do it through Ebay for your protection" (ahem) is the key. They wanted his name and address so Ebay could open a "case file" for it. Ebay does not do that; they only offer buyer protection for items sold through their online auctions. What happens next is you get a spoofed email looking like it comes from Ebay and you're supposed to send $$$ through Western Union or some other you-are-screwed method.
Click to expand...


They are getting sneaky!
 
Geico266 said:
They are getting sneaky!
Click to expand...
Indeed.

He had me going for a while reading me the email over the phone. I have known people who have gotten good deals on cars and real estate when someone gets divorced; it's not unheard of. The real kicker was this "divorcee" was trying to sell a Range Rover that books at $39k for $17k. My B-I-L sees arbitrage $$$ dancing in his head and his greed almost got the better of him.

I told him to forward me the email, and I Googled the sender's email address. Boom - about half a dozen hits on various cities' Craigslist pages. All selling the same car. Googling "Ebay buyer protection craigslist scam" sealed the deal for the explanation.

In fact, I tell all my family members this: whatever you're curious about, type it into Google, followed by the word "scam." If it's BS, you'll know by the first page. :yesnod:
 
schmookeeg said:
Ya, I reported it to the website. With my spidey sense as tingly as it was, that would have only been a "cash for bill of sale" deal, and even then, I'd have probably tried to get his notarized sig or something on the bill of sale, so I had some sort of ID/thumbprint to work from if the deal went loopy.

That's actually a scary part of buying airplanes, isn't it -- the title and paper trail situation is awfully weak. Any of my planes could have had a "real owner" pop up at any time after purchase and demand keys... ugh.
Click to expand...

dillardrg said:
Mike AOPA has a great title search service that is well worth the $ in peace of mind.
Click to expand...

Yeah, title search will tell you there are no liens, but it will it really tell you that seller "X" is authorized to sell the plane? If somebody shows up with an airplane, fake ID that matches the name on the title, etc. you could get a bum deal. A "real owner" show up asking for his keys, as was said.

With so many planes sitting tied down on the tarmac for weeks on end, I'm sure there are people pulling that scam. Walk the tarmac, take pics, list 'em for sale, etc.
 
Tom-D said:
I've seen the early 172s that low but an "M" ? yes they are that old.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the idea that a 37-year-old airplane was a "late model." The M model was built between about '72 and '76. We've had several in our fleet, and they're good airplanes and have a robust engine, but I'd call the '96 and up R and S models "late models." We have an '06 172SP, and it's been "improved" so much it weighs 300 pounds more than an M. Progress?

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
I was referring to the idea that a 37-year-old airplane was a "late model." The M model was built between about '72 and '76. We've had several in our fleet, and they're good airplanes and have a robust engine, but I'd call the '96 and up R and S models "late models." We have an '06 172SP, and it's been "improved" so much it weighs 300 pounds more than an M. Progress?

Dan
Click to expand...

They are the Lycoming powered late models, Vice the early model continental powered 172s.

Getting by that, NEVER EVER send any money no matter what for, to any one except the legal owner, If you can't find out who that is, it is a scam.

Always ask where the aircraft is, and when it can be inspected. No scammer will answer those questions.
 
I agree that based upon the email Mike got, this deal seems a bit strange... Some comments:

schmookeeg said:
Hi Mike,
The price is [SIZE=+0]$15800. About 2800TT, 800SMOH. Is in very good shape, it has been well maintained, flown regulary, and has given excellent service with no problems. I will send you some photos in the next email. I can deliver it to your shipping address (i will pay for the shipping and insurance fees) and i will agree to let you test and inspect it for 5 days
Click to expand...

Pay for SHIPPING? And I wonder what it costs to insure the aircraft during shipping? :skeptical: If he get's FED-EX Freight to take it, I wanna see a copy of the Bill of Laiding.

just to be sure. In this 5 days you will test the conditions of the car.
Click to expand...

Car? What car?

If something won't be like you expected to be you can return it without any expense. It will come with all the paper work.
The payment will be made through bank wire transfer. The deal will go through eBay motors and Square Trade. In this way both of us will have the required assurance that the deal will take place well. A refund policy will be included. Thanks
Click to expand...

Unless eBay Motors is a requirement to access Square Trade, why bother eBay? **IF** I was going to bother with an escrow trade, I'd find a different vector.

A phone call to the registered address in Florida has been answered with "we dont know anything about any airplane"

I'm sleuthing... but be careful if you're interested in this plane.

$0.02

- Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing the flatfoot work. Bad thing is that someone outside of our circle is going to fall for the scam and get burned.
 
One more reason why I'm a misanthrope.
 
Don't bet on it, if jet prices are a precursor of where the market is headed. I'm bound by an NDA for a few more weeks, but some of the current prices are eye-poppers.
tonycondon said:
prices are low no doubt, but a Lycoming powered 172 for under 20K would be signs of much worse times than we are in right now, I think.
Click to expand...
 
Definately a scam. I know I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I thought I would post anyway.

SCAM!

That ad has been pulled.
 
Last edited:
Well guys I'm a lurker on this site, I did some posting a little over a year ago and come back time to time and read up on all of you. Just like day time T.V. you are all here yet.
You guy's are all pretty savy and I think most of you have seen my ad that I posted on my 1957 c-172 what do you think ...is it priced about right?
 
Here's a reply to an email I sent this guy - I asked about 10 questions and got answers to 6:

General Information

Airframe: 7135 Hrs TSMOH: 2564 Hrs Prop Time: 896 Hrs VFR/IFR Certified
Log Books Available

Aircraft Annual Performed: 6/12/09 Due July 2010 Aircraft Instrument
Certification (VFR/IFR): 12/4/08 Due: Jan 2011

Aircraft Upholstery and Carpet: Like New - Replaced Nov/2006 Manufacturer: AirTex


Aircraft Paint: White Coat rated 6.5 Plane is Decal, Burgundy/Grey rated 10


Aircraft Glass: Very Good Shape Clear, no clouding

Engine

Lycoming 0-320-E2D 150 Horsepower Engine TSMOH: 2564 Hours

Current Engine Overhauled 1-7-1999

Current Compressions as of 6/12/09: #1 75/80 #2 71/80 #3 76/80 #4 73/80


Major Engine Work Performed to Date: #2 Cylinder overhauled 4/20/01 #1 & #4
Cylinders replaced 4/30/05

Prop Overhauled: 8/10/06 Current Prop Time: 896 Hours

Instruments

Certified both VFR & IFR Current Certification: 12/4/08 Due: Jan 2011

Nav/Com Radios (2): MX300 & Narco MK12D Digital Flip Flops

Transponder: King KT76A Mode C

Audio Panel: King KMA 12B

Intercom: Aircraft Spruce Skycom 4 Place w/Audio Input

Additional Instruments: Standard 6 pak / VOR / Glide Slope / Dash Compass

Interior

Seats and Upholstery: Excellent - Replaced Nov 2006 with New AirTex upholstery -
Leather back/sides web cloth seating

Carpet: Excellent - Replaced Aug 2006 with AirTex carpeting

Interior Plastic: Very Good shape, clean, no cracks

This aircraft is in very good shape, it has been well maintained, flown regulary,
and has given excellent service with no problems.
This aircraft uses little or no oil and does not have any oil leaks. Even though
the engine is beyond TBO, she still flys strong and
I believe has several hundred hours left because of the cylinder overhauls and
constant preventative maintenance done. Clean and
pretty plane in appearance, flys as good as she looks, have flown long cross
countries and would have concern about continuing to
do so. Solid plane for a weekend flyer or someone wanting to get started.
If you are interested please reply me with your full name and shipping address and
phone# so that i can start the transaction through eBay, if not just let me know so
i can try to find another buyer. Thanks

And my response to him:

Mr. Heracles;

Thank you for the info, but you missed a few questions:

1. Are you the registered owner, and how long have you had the plane?

2. Any damage history?

3. Are all logbooks present?

4. Would you have any objections to me sending a mechanic to do a pre-buy inspection on the plane?


Also, if I were to make an offer on this plane, any transactions would go
through an escrow service of MY choosing. Ebay does not handle
transactions outside of their system such as this.
 
Sounds like you're looking at an early '70s 172.

There are lots of 172s around. I don't think I'd buy one from a long distance, especially through eBay, since they're so plentiful. And I'd definitely want to talk with the owner by phone before I seriously considered any of them. You can learn more in a 5 minute phone call than you can in a dozen e-mails back and forth.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Sounds like you're looking at an early '70s 172.

There are lots of 172s around. I don't think I'd buy one from a long distance, especially through eBay, since they're so plentiful. And I'd definitely want to talk with the owner by phone before I seriously considered any of them. You can learn more in a 5 minute phone call than you can in a dozen e-mails back and forth.


Trapper John
Click to expand...


My guess, as everyone else's is, is that this guy is trying to scam people....I'm trying to find stuff in his answers to my questions that would give him away. 896 hours on a prop in 4 years is quite a lot unless the plane was a flight school plane. That kinda raises a flag. But who knows for sure? We'll just see how he responds to my last email.
 
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