Preparing for CFI

jmaynard

jmaynard

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
1,487
Location
Fairmont, Minnesota
Display Name
Display name:
Jay Maynard
I've been thinking about taking the plunge into a CFI-SP rating, and decided last night (prodded by a good deal on the King course) to go ahead with it. I've got all the prerequisites covered, and plan to do the training in my Zodiac.

Before I get started on the flight training, what do I need to do? I know I'll have to learn to fly from the right seat, and that will mean that I use my right hand. I've never flown with my right hand before; is that something I can profitably do on my own? My Zodiac can be flown with either hand from the left seat, so I can divide learning to fly with my right hand from learning to fly from the right seat easily.

What else should I work on before I get into the flight training?
 
Jay,

I would recommend as was recommended to me, that if you want to learn to fly from the right seat on your own, that you take a qualified pilot that you are confident in/CFI with you in the left seat just in case you have issues from the right seat. I did not think it would be hard for me to learn to fly from the right seat, but it was not the easiest flying I have done. It just did not come naturally and of course your sight picture will be different. Having that second person there just in case, may not be a bad idea.

Also, having someone there to pratice teach in the plane will help tremendously in getting used to flying while talking and watching out for traffic.

I am sure others will have other good advice to.

David

jmaynard said:
I've been thinking about taking the plunge into a CFI-SP rating, and decided last night (prodded by a good deal on the King course) to go ahead with it. I've got all the prerequisites covered, and plan to do the training in my Zodiac.

Before I get started on the flight training, what do I need to do? I know I'll have to learn to fly from the right seat, and that will mean that I use my right hand. I've never flown with my right hand before; is that something I can profitably do on my own? My Zodiac can be flown with either hand from the left seat, so I can divide learning to fly with my right hand from learning to fly from the right seat easily.

What else should I work on before I get into the flight training?
Click to expand...
 
flhrci said:
I would recommend as was recommended to me, that if you want to learn to fly from the right seat on your own, that you take a qualified pilot that you are confident in/CFI with you in the left seat just in case you have issues from the right seat.
Click to expand...
I'm not planning to learn to fly from the right seat on my own, just because the sight picture out the cockpit is different. That much I'd already decided.
 
jmaynard said:
I'm not planning to learn to fly from the right seat on my own, just because the sight picture out the cockpit is different. That much I'd already decided.
Click to expand...

Smart decision! I have one friend who taught himself how to fly from the right seat. While he seems to have survived the experience, he does not win any points for aeronautical decision making.

Personally, so far I have spent most of my training hours with an instructor for my ratings, as in more hours than I need to spend. I believe that, while not required, it has been good for me to do and has helped me to be a better pilot (even though I'm still a worthless pilot). Of course, I'm not at the point of training for my CFI rating yet, but, well, you know me. ;)

One way to cut costs out might be to spend your first few hours right seat with an instructor and once you get comfortable with it, spend more time flying the plane right seat to build up practice. Ideally, as a CFI you should be just as comfortable flying from the right seat as from the left.
 
The only things I'd suggest you work on before you get with the instructor who will be training you would be the knowledge stuff:
  • Get the Aviation Instructor's Handbook and start memorizing it
  • Take a Teaching 101 course at the local college if you can
  • Get the following books (if you don't already have them) and review them thoroughly:
    • FAR/AIM (check the Suggested Study List for the right sections to look at)
    • Airplane Flying Handbook
    • Commercial pilot training manual (Bob Gardner's Complete Advanced Pilot or Bill Kershner's Advanced Pilot's Flight Manual if you don't have your old one)
    • AC 00-06A Aviation Weather
    • AC 00-45F Aviation Weather Services
Once you've read and (hopefully) digested all that, find an instructor with a lot of instructing experience (I'm talking 1000+ instruction given over several years, not just the FAA mins in 61.195(h)) and start training.
 
Jay,

You are already a step ahead in having the ability to explain things clearly as you are doing them in the plane. Not everyone can do that so naturally. Having flown with you I'd say you will make a great instructor someday.
 
Ron Levy said:
The only things I'd suggest you work on before you get with the instructor who will be training you would be the knowledge stuff:
  • Get the Aviation Instructor's Handbook and start memorizing it
  • Take a Teaching 101 course at the local college if you can
  • Get the following books (if you don't already have them) and review them thoroughly:
    • FAR/AIM (check the Suggested Study List for the right sections to look at)
    • Airplane Flying Handbook
    • Commercial pilot training manual (Bob Gardner's Complete Advanced Pilot or Bill Kershner's Advanced Pilot's Flight Manual if you don't have your old one)
    • AC 00-06A Aviation Weather
    • AC 00-45F Aviation Weather Services
Once you've read and (hopefully) digested all that, find an instructor with a lot of instructing experience (I'm talking 1000+ instruction given over several years, not just the FAA mins in 61.195(h)) and start training.
Click to expand...

I'd add one text to this list as required reading: Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators.
 
Jay, don't you wish you had gotten the dual throttle option now? I'd never landed a 601XL and only landed 2 other planes from the right seat when I floated your 601 down the runway.

Go to altitude and practice slow flight with your right hand on the stick. After you get comfortable with that get an instructor and land it a few times from the right seat. It ain't that hard.

If you are going to instruction in your plane I'd suggest you get a Dynon EEFS-10A installed on the right side. It was hard to read the instruments from over there.


jmaynard said:
I've been thinking about taking the plunge into a CFI-SP rating, and decided last night (prodded by a good deal on the King course) to go ahead with it. I've got all the prerequisites covered, and plan to do the training in my Zodiac.

Before I get started on the flight training, what do I need to do? I know I'll have to learn to fly from the right seat, and that will mean that I use my right hand. I've never flown with my right hand before; is that something I can profitably do on my own? My Zodiac can be flown with either hand from the left seat, so I can divide learning to fly with my right hand from learning to fly from the right seat easily.

What else should I work on before I get into the flight training?
Click to expand...
 
GigG601XL said:
Jay, don't you wish you had gotten the dual throttle option now?
Click to expand...
I did. The AMD Zodiac comes standard with dual throttles; I simply didn't delete the one on the left, unlike most buyers.

If you are going to instruction in your plane I'd suggest you get a Dynon EEFS-10A installed on the right side. It was hard to read the instruments from over there.
Click to expand...
Where would I put it? I'm not exactly flush with remaining panel space...
 
Is there one in the middle and one on the far left? I don't remember one on the far right?

I was thinking you had room for an extra 3 1/2" hole on the right side. I could be wrong. I've slept since you were here.

jmaynard said:
I did. The AMD Zodiac comes standard with dual throttles; I simply didn't delete the one on the left, unlike most buyers.


Where would I put it? I'm not exactly flush with remaining panel space...
Click to expand...
 
GigG601XL said:
Is there one in the middle and one on the far left? I don't remember one on the far right?
Click to expand...
Yup. That's how it's set up.

I was thinking you had room for an extra 3 1/2" hole on the right side. I could be wrong. I've slept since you were here.
Click to expand...
Nope...wish there was, but no such luck.
 

Attachments

  • N55ZC-panel.jpg
    N55ZC-panel.jpg
    111.7 KB · Views: 17
So I did a little FAR-diving yesterday and found that I'm close to having the requisite number of total hours and PIC hours to do this, I just need to have the 15 hours PIC in an LSA. So, I'm thinking of going for this myself.

According to Subpart K of Part 61, you need to have at least a Sport Pilot certificate with the category and class ratings for the instructor certificate being sought. I have a Private Pilot certificate for Airplane-Single-Engine land.

Minimum experience requirements:

150 hours total time - I'm at 114.3 - the other 35.7 can easily be filled by training to fly from right seat and by flying the museum's raffle plane flights.

100 hours PIC in powered aircraft - I'm at 73.6 - any SEL time I get while sole manipulator of the controls is PIC time according to 61.51(e), even if it's dual received.

50 hours total in Single Engine aircraft - all but 0.5 of my time is single

25 hours of x-c time - I have over 40

10 hours x-c in single-engine - all of my x-c time is in singles

15 hours PIC in an LSA - I have 0 LSA time, but I figure that it will take me at LEAST that long to learn how to fly from the right seat, how to perform the necessary maneuvers, get the spin training, etc.

So, here's the big question - since I don't have a commercial pilot certificate, can I get paid as a CFI-SP? Or is it interpreted as being paid to teach flying, not being paid to fly? Please cite an official source (FAR, AC, or FAA Legal Opinion) with your response.

The next big question is, do you all know of any scholarships available out there that I could apply for to pay for this training?

I'm actually really excited about this. I've been having a blast as a ground instructor, and found that I'm pretty good at it. My students have been pestering me to get my CFI so that they can fly with me too. This would be a good stepping stone for me to do that so that I can build time and become a CFI in larger airplanes as well. I enjoy teaching, I enjoy flying, so this would make a really good side-job for me to make a little extra money for my own "fun" flying!
 
PJ,

I am planning to do this too. I can answere on question: Yes, you can get paid to teach in an LSA without a commercial, no, without looking it up, I do not know the pertient regs... However, I did get confirmation of that by the FAA LSA guys at Oshkosh. My only gripe now is that If I instruct someone and they get their Sport Pilot Rating, that instruction will not count if they go on to get a Private later, they will essentially be starting from scratch, I think that's going to hurt my pool of potential students.



Jay,

Did you get my PM about what training materials you'd recommend that are geared towards CFI SP, I know most of the regular CFI material will apply, but if there is anything with a SP emphasis, I'd like to look at that.
 
roebuck85 said:
My only gripe now is that If I instruct someone and they get their Sport Pilot Rating, that instruction will not count if they go on to get a Private later, they will essentially be starting from scratch, I think that's going to hurt my pool of potential students.
Click to expand...

Roebuck, thanks for the info. I look forward to someone else showing me a regulatory reference though - the word of the FAA guys at OSH, while probably correct, may not necessarily be upheld across the administration. They're not necessarily known for consistency ;-).

WRT your instruction time not counting, my understanding is that's only the dual received time. Any solo time they accrue during their training and any flight time they accrue after getting their ticket does count towards PPL minimums. So, I don't think it will be that much of a hindrance. After they prove to the CFI that they are competent in basic airmanship skills, the bulk of their training can be focused on the night flying, longer cross-country, and simulated instrument flight requirements - essentially more situationally-based training with real-world applicability.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
WRT your instruction time not counting, my understanding is that's only the dual received time. Any solo time they accrue during their training and any flight time they accrue after getting their ticket does count towards PPL minimums. So, I don't think it will be that much of a hindrance. After they prove to the CFI that they are competent in basic airmanship skills, the bulk of their training can be focused on the night flying, longer cross-country, and simulated instrument flight requirements - essentially more situationally-based training with real-world applicability.
Click to expand...


That is true. PIC time is PIC time regardless of the certificate. So it may not be too big of a detriment after all.
 
roebuck85 said:
Did you get my PM about what training materials you'd recommend that are geared towards CFI SP, I know most of the regular CFI material will apply, but if there is anything with a SP emphasis, I'd like to look at that.
Click to expand...
No, I didn't.

Basically, there are minimal differences between CFI-A and CFI-SP in an airplane. If you do the basic CFI stuff and bone up on part 61 subpart J (61.3xx, the rules applicable to sport pilots), you'll be fine.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
150 hours total time - I'm at 114.3 - the other 35.7 can easily be filled by training to fly from right seat and by flying the museum's raffle plane flights.
Click to expand...
would this be "Passenger-carrying flights for the benefit of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event"? (91.146)

...which would require, among other things, that
A private pilot acting as pilot in command has at least 500 hours of flight time
Click to expand...
or am I missing something here?:confused:

David
 
Nope... we don't sell or take donations for passenger rides. The flights are just to go to an event for the purpose of selling raffle tickets. The mode of transportation is incidental to the business conducted. Besides, I buy the gas.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
The flights are just to go to an event for the purpose of selling raffle tickets.
Click to expand...
And the event is neither "charitable", "nonprofit", or "community"?

Charitable event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of a charitable organization recognized by the Department of the Treasury whose donors may deduct contributions under section 170 of the Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. Section 170).
Community event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of any local or community cause that is not a charitable event or non-profit event.
Non-profit event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of a non-profit organization recognized under State or Federal law, as long as one of the organization's purposes is the promotion of aviation safety.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
MauleSkinner said:
would this be "Passenger-carrying flights for the benefit of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event"? (91.146)

...which would require, among other things, that
or am I missing something here?:confused:

David
Click to expand...
Two things.
First, the important part of title of the section. "PASSENGER-CARRYING FLIGHTS for the benefit of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event". If he has no passengers, it clearly doesn't apply.

Second, I understand that the purpose of the section is to regulate those flights where a passenger is taken on the flight after having made a donation or won a raffle. It's not intended to cover PJ flying, say, a museum board member to a location where they're going to sell raffle tickets. Note that I'm talking about my understanding of the intent here. I acknowledge that a close reading might find that it does actually cover that circumstance, and further that my understanding of the intent is actually totally wrong. :)
 
Grant's got it right -- t0r0nad0's OK as described since nobody's paying to be a passenger and he's paying the full direct cost of the flight.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
Nope... we don't sell or take donations for passenger rides. The flights are just to go to an event for the purpose of selling raffle tickets. The mode of transportation is incidental to the business conducted. Besides, I buy the gas.
Click to expand...
Oh..."transportation"...sorry, I got crossed up on the "togotoan" part ;).
 
No worries... I consider myself to be well-versed in the FAR's that pertain to my level of flying, and am well aware of my legal privileges and limitations as a Private Pilot. I endeavor to always operate within those rules because I've worked too hard and spent too much money on getting my license to lose it over doing something stupid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top