Pre flight

If I shutdown for 20 minutes on our ramp (with NOTHING around it) wait for a few pax, eat a burrito in our building that looks right at the ramp, I don't do a runup, or re-walkaround, just aint needed to check the mags 5-10 times a day.

I've had two full engine failures in my career, both were after a full walkaround/runup.

Checking your mags 5-10-15 time a day is excessive, heck why not just land every 30 minutes and do another walkaround runup... to be safe

As for the comment on how would you know if you had lost a mag, well it aint going to be running right on taxi and if you miss that you'll sure know it when you add power for takeoff.

Now a 3+ hr shutdown with me leaving the airport or something, I'll do a quick check before I go.
 
Now, if I found some water and it cleared up after a few samples (not much water in the tanks) and subsequent samples were clean, I'd fly. Maybe just in the pattern for a few circuits to make sure, but I would be careful.

One thing on sumping and water, try to rock the wings a little before you sump, tanks can have little areas where water likes to hide.

Also doing patten work to "make sure" isn't the best move, your making sure everything is ok by doing takeoffs and landings??
 
I closely scrutinize every nut, bolt, screw, and rivit, that I can see.
as well as a proper runup prior to takeoff, including "flight controls free and correct".
 
If I shutdown for 20 minutes on our ramp (with NOTHING around it) wait for a few pax, eat a burrito in our building that looks right at the ramp, I don't do a runup, or re-walkaround, just aint needed to check the mags 5-10 times a day.

I've had two full engine failures in my career, both were after a full walkaround/runup.

Checking your mags 5-10-15 time a day is excessive, heck why not just land every 30 minutes and do another walkaround runup... to be safe

As for the comment on how would you know if you had lost a mag, well it aint going to be running right on taxi and if you miss that you'll sure know it when you add power for takeoff.

Now a 3+ hr shutdown with me leaving the airport or something, I'll do a quick check before I go.

I take it you are flying under Part 135.

If so, forward this post to your POI and explain the same thing to him and let us know his reaction.

Somehow I don't think he will buy it. :rolleyes:
 
Well, some of the posts here illuminate the Kernel of GA's problem.

A few weeks ago a CSIP was taxiing down our ramp in the right seat with his charge' in the left. Rumb-rumblerumblerumble-ting! I went out and stood in front of the a/c arms crossed pointing to the nose wheel. Vaunted CSIP raises the rpms to show his disapproval.

I motioned to cut and stood there. Eventually he shut down, and irratedly opened the door. I simply said, "you need to get out and avail your self of the last chance walk around".

Five minutes later he was in my office thanking me for saving his sorry a__. He did not bring his charge' in with him.

That was not a rookie move. That was a doofus move. Towbar was still on the nosewheel.
 
Last edited:
As for the comment on how would you know if you had lost a mag, well it aint going to be running right on taxi and if you miss that you'll sure know it when you add power for takeoff.

Not true at all. A bad coil can be deceptive. Of course the run-up check didn't find it either. The mag drop was unusual but within spec. In hindsight, I lost the mag on the previous flight and the intermittent failure finally went permanent an hour into the subsequent flight. Some parts of this stuff are more art than science...I was very lucky that day.
 
Guess I'm still a rookie - and if that's the case I have no intention of ever being anything but.

Yeah, maybe I'll be a little quicker on the later run ups but...

And I will never take off in a piper again without checking the cowl just before getting in. One inflight departure is enough for me.
 
"Controls -- Free and Correct"

And yes, I check the engine (mags, prop, heat).

I had been away a few weeks, other pilots flying the plane. On preflight I find the flying wires on the Horz stab bracing very loose. I wondered how long it had been that way.
 
Whoever does that crap and whoever else allows it isn't near as smart as they think they are.

If I shutdown for 20 minutes on our ramp (with NOTHING around it) wait for a few pax, eat a burrito in our building that looks right at the ramp, I don't do a runup, or re-walkaround, just aint needed to check the mags 5-10 times a day.

I've had two full engine failures in my career, both were after a full walkaround/runup.

Checking your mags 5-10-15 time a day is excessive, heck why not just land every 30 minutes and do another walkaround runup... to be safe

As for the comment on how would you know if you had lost a mag, well it aint going to be running right on taxi and if you miss that you'll sure know it when you add power for takeoff.

Now a 3+ hr shutdown with me leaving the airport or something, I'll do a quick check before I go.
 
It's possible to do a runup while taxiing. No extra time, and you'll still know if you need to turn back.
 
Full pre-flight 1st flight of the day and anytime the plane is out of my sight longer than a WC break.

Full runup after any shutdown.

Doesn't take long, could save the day.

Exactly. If I stop the engine, a run up is warranted. It's not just checking mags, after all. Heck I will do a run up even between takeoffs and landings if I am doing a lot of pattern ops and spending time on the ground. Fouled plugs on departure are not fun on a hot day.

If I walk away from the airplane and it's out of my sight for more than the time it takes to get in the restaurant and in the window/use the restroom, then it gets a fresh walkaround.

And anyone who would call someone a rookie simply because they're exercising an abundance of caution rather than skipping the checklist, well we could have a name calling contest but I won't actually go there. I was a rookie six years ago, and today I'm cautious, and I try to be thorough and not get complacent.
 
If I shutdown for 20 minutes on our ramp (with NOTHING around it) wait for a few pax, eat a burrito in our building that looks right at the ramp, I don't do a runup, or re-walkaround, just aint needed to check the mags 5-10 times a day.

You have a lot of faith to assume/know that nothing on the airplane came loose during the previous flight.

Your rookie comment just confirms what I've suspected from reading some of your previous posts.
 
Are you precluded from doing a quick mag check or just not required?

My personal airplane, preflight and runup no matter what. For one that boss man signs the checks for me to fly, I do what the SOP/Opspec says to do. Preflight every time, runup first flight of the day.
 
Are you precluded from doing a quick mag check or just not required?
if i was king for day i would preclude people from yanking props into feather 3 times before every takeoff. I feel physical pain listening to it and thinking about bearings. Of course, I'm not close to being king. I haven't even made it to community organizer.
 
if i was king for day i would preclude people from yanking props into feather 3 times before every takeoff. I feel physical pain listening to it and thinking about bearings. Of course, I'm not close to being king. I haven't even made it to community organizer.

I pull it until I just hear the RPM change and can detect the changes on the gauge. Others I fly with push the button and "thwack" pull it back as quickly as they can. Each think the other is wrong, but I don't like abusing my prop/hub/engine like that.
 
I had a local well-respected CFII try to tell me once that a full pre-flight wasn't necessary and this is "just a pit-stop, check the fuel and oil and go!"

I ignored his dumb ass and did the full pre flight. Whether he was testing me or just an idiot, I didn't ask.
 
Are you precluded from doing a quick mag check or just not required?


Nothing says you can't do one. We do one prior to shut down.

What does your AFM say? Does it state specifically that you are only required one runup once a day? Somewhere in your Ops Manual (FAA Approved) it says you shall follow the manufacturers manual. Or does it give you an exemption?

Finally, go ask your POI if he will accept one runup per day type of procedure. Get back to us with the answer.
 
I'll look into it. I don't really care one way or the other, I just do what I've been trained to do.

That'll go over well as a defense at the Civil trial where they're deciding how broke your loved ones will be after you're dead.

When did people decide that procedure that is stupid is more important to follow than not being stupid?

No offense personally meant, but I see it in my business too. Doesn't make it any less stupid.
 
See "Nuremberg" to gauge the effectiveness of such a defense.

That'll go over well as a defense at the Civil trial where they're deciding how broke your loved ones will be after you're dead.

When did people decide that procedure that is stupid is more important to follow than not being stupid?

No offense personally meant, but I see it in my business too. Doesn't make it any less stupid.
 
From the canuck site


Big Pistons Forever said:
Yesterday I was out having lunch at the airport and a young instructor approached me. He was about to start his first CPL student and asked for some advice. This got me thinking so I decided to pull together stuff I had written on various threads over the last few years into one post. I am a current Class 1 and have significant and varied experience in other parts of commercial aviation. The tips are primarily meant for newer instuctors who have CPL students but have little or no experience as a line pilot. In other words, stuff I had wished I had been told when I was in that position. They represent one data point and are meant to spark some discussion and get folks thinking about the what and more importantly the why of what they are teaching. For simplicity sake I will presume the aircraft in use is the C 172.

The walk around:

-This used to called the "daily inspection" as in once a day on the first flight. There is no need to do an equivalent of an "A" inspection for the 11th flight of the day. More importantly new PPL's are not expected to use much discretion, but you should expect more from CPL's. Not everything on the walk around should be afforded the exact same levels of importance. So the stuff that matters IMO

- Aircraft are delicate: All surfaces/doors/controls should be moved gently

-When in the cabin do two things generally not on the checklist. First organize the cabin (stow all the loose stuff, cross the seatbelts, throw out any garbage, and organize you maps books and other flight info because passengers get nervous when your stuff is laying all over the cabin and you are rooting around trying to find what you needs) second set the trim wheel to the TO setting so you can see where the tab actually is on the walkaround.

-Consumables. Fuel and oil should be checked on every flight. Big airplanes have reliable fuel guages (heck $9999.00 econoboxes have reliable fuel guages) little airplanes do not. But be reasonable, you don't need a dipstick to check full tanks. As for oil, if at all possible you should know/find out what the oil level ws on the last flight. A sudden reduction in the oil level is always bad. Either you have a bad leak or the engine is showing the first symptom of a potentailly catastrophic failure.

-The most likely things wrong you are going to see in the walkaround fall in the "hanging or dripping " catagory, so that's what you should be looking for. My experience has been the mostly likely grounding item you will find on a walk around will be tires or brakes. I always give them a good look

-A walkaround should not take more than 3 or 4 minutes.


Taxing:

- there is no one universal taxi speed. The airplane speed should be adjusted to suit the situation. Slow down for corners or tight spots, speed up on the straight parts and when crossing runways. Stuff that matters:

-IMO the number one indication of good airmanship on the ground is managing your propwash. Even a C172 can create damaging amounts of wind yet I believe this issue is not always fully addressed in training. By the time a guy/gal gets to the CPL course this should not be an issue, so I jump all over students that do not mind their prop wash. This is especially egregious since the C 172 has a back window so you can see who you are about to blast

- Follow the yellow line ! When you are at a strang airport it wil save you from turnignwhen you shouldn't

- don't ride the brakes and the aircraft should not be bobbing up and down every time brakes are applied. When stopping ease up on the brakes just before the aircraft comes to a complete stop, this will ensure a smooth stop.

- If there is significant wind, know where it is coming from and poition the controls properly.

-Lights: Virtually all 705 (large aircraft) operators have the same SOP for the use of lights. It is as follows:

position lights: On when electrical power aplied to aircraft (Not IMO required for small aircraft during day but should be done at night)

rotating beacon: On just prior to engine start

strobe lights: On when crossing runways and when entering active

landing lights: On when cleared for take off or starting take off roll (uncontrolled airports)

And the reverse when landing and for the taxi in.

I did not mention taxi light (usually located on the nose gear leg of large aircraft) as it is not usually applicable or practical for small aircraft. However your student should know that if he is near a large aircraft it will switch on the taxi light when it is about to start moving and turn it off when it is stopped.

Since you have to use the lights somehow I figure if it is good enough for the big boys it is good enough for me and insisted all my students use this SOP

Runup:
- Pick a sensible spot to do your runup. At my home field the runup bay can hold 3 airplanes, or just one if you park right in the middle..... it is not absolutely necessary to be exactly into the wind before starting the runup. A related point is wind direction. The ideal should certainly be an into the wind runup for reasons of improved engine cooling and more accurate engine settings......however if the wind is reasonably light (say less than 10 kts) and the aircraft can be better positioned to avoid propwash issues or not block taxiways out of the wind, than I see this as a another good opportunity at the CPL level, to introduce a discussion of factors affecting where/how the aircraft should be oriented, and which consideration should which take precedence.




The checklist is not a bunch of rote actions. Critical thought should be used. The most abused runup item IMO is the mixture check

- In my experince most pilots yank the mixture knob out untill the enginr dies and then shoves it back in. This often causes a backfire which is very hard on the muffler baffles and only proves the mixture cut off works. This is how I teach this item

- after the carb air check leave the carb heat on

- slowly lean. This is to allow the engine time to adjust to the changing fuel/air ratio and the RPM should rise as the overly rich mixture caused by the hot air gets corrected. Continue leaning untill the RPM drops about 100 revs and the engine starts to run a bit rough indicating an excessively lean mixture. Slowly push the knob back to full rich and observe the RPM return to the starting value. You have now proven that the carb is properly set up and the mixture control actually controls the mixture.

Takeoff:

-have a discussion on why intersection takeoffs are almost never a good idea for single engine aircraft.

- Insist on a pretakeoff brief before every takeoff. This brief should IMO cover the following items :

a) The type of take off (normal,short,soft,or x-wind)
b) rotate and climb speed
c) what he/she intends to do if the engine fails below 500 AAE/between 500 and 1000 ft AAE and above 1000 AAE. Thsi should not be a great long speech just a clear
description of where they are going to point the aircraft

- When the students calls ready for take off they should be ready in all respects.

- The airplane should be lined up exactly on the centerline and it ahould stay there throughout the take off run. Don't accept inaccurate aircraft control.

-The throttle should be advanced slowly but steadily. It should never be jammed in.

- Before power is applied the elevator should be always slightly nose up (for a nornal takeoff ) so as the prop wash flowing over the elevator unloads the nose wheel

- When the throttle is fully in the student should note that all engine instruments are in the green and the engine is showing full static RPM (not Redline RPM, the static RPM value will be in the POH and will always be lower than Redline). At which point the call I teach is " good engine "

Finally expect the aircraft to be rotated and climb at the briefed speeds. If it isn't, correct the student. At the CPL level demonstrating accurate speed control is not an optional skill IMO, it is expected. (hint if the aircraft levitates with all three wheels leaving the ground at the same time than the rotate speed is too high )

The briefings may seem a bit over the top but I think it is very important to build good habits. If you insist on a full but effeicent breifing on every flight than the habit about thinking ahead will become ingrained and will also prepare them for multi and multi IFR training and their first job


The climb:

- As I mentioned in the previous post, after lift off demand that your student holds a consistant pitch attitude that will give you the briefed speed.
( I like Vy to 1000 ft AAE as altitude is your friend. I do not use Vx fora normal take off as it requires a very nose high attiude {hard to see ahead }and is not far above stall. In the event of an engine faiure a very aggressive pitch down is required to maintain safe speed. As an aside this is a good exercise at a safe altitude. get the aircraft established at Vx and smoothly but quickly pull the power back to idle. Most students will be surprised at how quickly you need to react.)

- The aircraft should track the runway centre line as you climb away, don't accept the aircraft being pushed to one side or the other.

- In performanced challenged aircraft the difference between climbing with the wings level and the ball in the center can be as much as 20 % over a feet on the floor wing low climb. If you see the airplane climbing out in a uncoordinated fashion note the rate of climb, take over, get everything straightened out and note the new higher climb rate, an effective demonstration of the value of coordinated flight that only takes about a minute.

- Through 1000 ft AAE , or when prudent/practicable transistion to a cruise climb. I like to use a speed which gives a climb rate of 500 ft per minute for the C172 ( flying from a sea level airport). This will usually give a good compromise between engine cooling, visibilty ahead, and achieving track miles. It also requires the student to think about what airspeed to use rather than mindlessly using the same climb speed for every flight.

- If you are going to have a mid air on intial climb out it will most likely be as you pass through circuit height particularly at uncontrolled airports. Smack you student if he or she does not have their head on full swivel mode .

- Make sure the student understands the effect airspeed and mixture settings have on oil temp/ cylinder temp and what to do to manage engine cooling


enroute phase :

-When transitioning from climb to cruise, allow the aircraft to accelerate to cruise speed before setting cruise power, then trim. I know this is pretty basic and is covered in the PPL course, but it seems to be an item that frequently gets forgotten between the PPL and CPL .

- Most of the time your chart (VNC) works best folded down so it is two of the accordian panels wide then folded in half lenghtwise giving a square about 8 inches accross.

-The cockpit should always be neat and ordered. Passengers do not want to see charts all over the place and the pilot scrabbling around looking for his stuff. Similarly in small airplanes (like C172) I discourage the purchase of those airline style big leather flying bags. There is no good place to store it and if you are flying day VFR within the range of a C172 you don't need a lot of stuff. A small fabric tote is plently and can be squeezed between the seats frames. Similarly those 50 dollar so called professional pilot knee boards are IMO a waste of money. A small clipboard available at Staples costs $ 1.99 and you just need to tie a pencil to it and you are set.

-When you are going somewhere in slow airplanes one of the most important thing to keep track of (aside from your present position obviously) is your ground speed.
Even a small increase in a head wind can have a significant incease in your trip time. This matters not only forfuel reserves but also when flying commercially you generally have a schedule to keep, so if you are going to be late you should be proactive in ameliorating the inconvience to your passengers. Altitude can have a significant effect on the wind so while I expect the student to flight plan an optimal altitude I also want to see him know when to change the altitude to get a better speed.

- passengers want a smooth ride so if it is bumpy I expect some action from the student like changing altitude or route of flight. Somedays you have just got to suck it up but if for example your planned altitude puts you 500 ft below a layer of scattered cumulus clouds it is probably going to bumpy and so if you just drone along anyway then you are not IMO doing your job.

- I make a big point about comparing the weather you see out the windshield versus what the weather guy said, and what it means if what you see is not what you were expecting.

- Get in the habit of carrying an energy bar and a small bottle of water. Being dehydrated and with low blood sugar levels diminishes your PDM abilties.

Descent:

- Plan your descent for a maximum of 500 feet/min. The easy way to do this is determine how many thousands of feet between your cruising altitude and circuit height, double that and start down when that number equals time to destination (EG 6000 feet to loose, start down 12 mins from destination).
- The most efficient way to descend is to leave cruise RPM on and trim for a 500fpm descent. Reduce the power as you descent to maintain the cruise RPM setting
- Don’t start a long descent by going to full rich mixture !
- Most of the time you will have a good idea of the runway in use, so plan your route of flight to minimize track miles.
- If you are ever going to have a mid air it will probably entering the circuit at an uncontrolled airport, This is where emphasizing a lookout is really important

General points :
Operational efficiency:
When flying 702/703 flights, operational efficiency is very important. In general the most money will be made if the job is safely accomplished with the mimimum amount of flight and air time. To do this means you do not want to dawdle or waste time. So instructors should push students to be efficient and you should point out when they wasting time.

Radio work:
- working pilots will soon get a reputation in the industry, good....or bad. One factor which will determine this IMO is how he or she handles the radio. So if you are teaching a CPL set a high standard on day one and ride the student to be professional on the radio including. ( not in any order and not complete )

- When you change freq's listen for a few seconds before speaking so you do not step on another conversation

- engage brain before mouth. Ther should be no UMMs or ERR's

- Use standard phraseology and avoid slang

- Place the call sign at the end of every reply to ATC not at the beginning

Monitoring Engine Gauges:
When I was a young commercial pilot I got an piece of excellent advice from a gentleman who had been flying since the 1930's. He told me to note the actual position of each engine gauge needle for each phase of flight. This is especially valuable if you normally fly the same airplane. Any significant change in an engine gauge indication should be monitored and investigated. This advice saved me from a force landing as I was climb out in a C150 on a routine instructional flight one day. I noticed that the oil pressure gauge was one full needle width below the the mid gauge white line. Every other flight the needle had had sat exactly over the white line mark. As we were only a few miles from the airport, I told the student to turn back. Over ther next 2 minutes the oil pressure slowly rolled back to zero. By this time we were on short final so I shut the engine down and we completed an uneventfull landing. It turned out the oil pump drive gear had failed.

To build good habits I, at random intervals throughout the training, cover the engine gauges and ask the student where the needles were sitting. I found that pretty soon the students get good at including the engine instruments in their scan.

GPS:

-Having GPS positional data is one of the best ways to improve flight safety and efficiency. Every CPL should have a personal portable GPS (second hand serviceable unit saqre available on e-bay for a few hundred dollars) and should be taught and encouraged to use fitted GPS systems.

Tools of the trade:

-The aircraft is the tool of your trade. CPL’s students should get it the habit of treating it that way. So when the flight is over, the bugs are cleaned off the windshield, the cabin is tidy and the seat belts are crossed, and the aircraft is serviced with fuel and oil as required.
 
It's possible to do a runup while taxiing. No extra time, and you'll still know if you need to turn back.

Only if you're some place like IAD (which I've done). At both my home airports (CjR and NC26) it takes substantially longer to do my preflight checks than it takes me to get to the runway.
 
Gotta make sure you have the right magazines along Ed!!!

I preflight before every flight. It is just a good habit to have.

For my Arrow, the only way to move the rudder is to watch it move with the nose gear when pulling the aircraft out of the hangar and to then make sure you can steer it when in taxi mode. It can't be moved on the ground.

I have had other pilots and instructors along for a ride that will tell me that they preflighted this or that. I just say Well, Thank you and check it myself anyway.

When I preflight a rental PA-28, using schools checklist, I start it in RH seat, and on flight control check, I just lean back out the door so I can exercise the rudders ant turn to head to see the rudders.
 
This pilot does a careful preflight every time using a checklist.


Diddo....short pencil is better than a long memory.

I use the Flightplan flight check for my Comanche. Life safer. I review speeds, even emergency procedures when I have not flown within 30 days.

I always do a full walk around and run up before takeoffs.
 
Watched a guy try to taxi with the right wing still tied to the ground. Not a pretty ending.
We had a guy snap the tie down ring off on the club 180 doing that. His only explanation was that when he had done it before, it just whipped him around in a circle. He also was the one suspected of clipping across a taxiway light with the prop without noticing it. We were all much happier when he bought his own plane.

I was a lot more paranoid on the rentals than I am on my own plane.
 
Silly stuff happens that can't be explained. A plane was in the the shop for some work that included an oil change. The mechanic checked the oil filler/dipstick cap for security and the pilot verified it twice prior to the engine run and leak check. Everything during the test was normal, clean, dry, snug and secure.

During the test flight later in the day the cap was loose and oil sprayed the windshield. Twilight zone?
 
Back
Top