Pre-buy - any suggestions

sdflyer

sdflyer

Pre-takeoff checklist
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sdflyer
So after long time thinking, considering, convincing my wife and etc I have finally decided to buy an airplane. Next week is pre-buy. Any suggestion what to look for/paying attention during pre-buy ?

Any advice is appreciated!


P.S. It's Piper Arrow, 1980, T-tail
 
Not sure what you mean, are you doing the pre-buy inspection?

I'd hire someone to do it who knows what to look for...

Unless you mean that you are looking at the plane before a purchase, but then I'd suggest getting a pre-buy inspection done.
 
Normal practice is to hire an A&P you trust to do the Pre-buy inspection. The pre-buy should include an aircraft logbook search to review ADs and STCs.

Do not hire the sellers mechanic to do it.
 
If you know who will be maintaining it for you, have that person conduct the pre-buy.

If you don't know who will be maintaining it after you buy it, don't buy it until you do, then have that person conduct the pre-buy.

Once you know who will do the inspection, ask him which areas he will plan to cover in detail.

Ownership will prove to be expensive in the best case, so there's no reason to rationalize that it will be in your best interest to start your ownership period in any other way.
 
Get copies of the logbooks and other maintenance records first. If they aren't right, it's not worth traveling to look at the plane.
 
Ron Levy said:
Get copies of the logbooks and other maintenance records first. If they aren't right, it's not worth traveling to look at the plane.
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I checked them already as well as an airplane history. I flown the airplane for about 10 hours with a client. So I'm averagely familiar with it.

Pre-buy is scheduled with mechanic who has been referred to me by another aircraft owner. So I'm planning to use him for annuals. The mechanic is third party and doesn't have anything to do with seller.

I'm planning to spend the whole day during the pre-buy. Just wondering what useful things I could do while mechanic is working on the airplane :)
 
jetedrick said:
Not sure what you mean, are you doing the pre-buy inspection?

I'd hire someone to do it who knows what to look for...

Unless you mean that you are looking at the plane before a purchase, but then I'd suggest getting a pre-buy inspection done.
Click to expand...

Yes I already hired someone to do it for me and scheduled inspection
 
I just went through the buying process and I opted for a full annual as a pre buy. Pre buy was quoted at $500 and full annual was $895...seemed like a good investment as the plane was 5 months from needing an annual anyway. A few hundred extra bucks for a more thorough inspection was a good insurance policy to me for plunking down may thousands of dollars. A/P found about $1500 worth of repairs that that seller ended up picking up that probably wouldn't have found or been a red flag on just the standard pre buy, so it paid of itself.
 
Shawn said:
I just went through the buying process and I opted for a full annual as a pre buy. Pre buy was quoted at $500 and full annual was $895...seemed like a good investment as the plane was 5 months from needing an annual anyway. A few hundred extra bucks for a more thorough inspection was a good insurance policy to me for plunking down may thousands of dollars. A/P found about $1500 worth of repairs that that seller ended up picking up that probably wouldn't have found or been a red flag on just the standard pre buy, so it paid of itself.
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This airplane annual is due january 2014. However, given circumstances I may opt for full annual as well. Thanks for advice
 
sdflyer said:
So after long time thinking, considering, convincing my wife and etc I have finally decided to buy an airplane. Next week is pre-buy. Any suggestion what to look for/paying attention during pre-buy ?

Any advice is appreciated!


P.S. It's Piper Arrow, 1980, T-tail
Click to expand...

14 CFR Part 43, Appendix D lists everything involved in an annual. Also, the Piper Service Manual, Section III is titled "Inspection". If you don't have a copy (29 pages), let me know and I'll email it to you.
 
murphey said:
14 CFR Part 43, Appendix D lists everything involved in an annual. Also, the Piper Service Manual, Section III is titled "Inspection". If you don't have a copy (29 pages), let me know and I'll email it to you.
Click to expand...

Yes please email me at sdflyer2003@yahoo.com

Thank you
 
Are you on the red board as well? Might want to cross post there. Kareem (kfahmi) has a t-tail arrow and is pretty meticulous about it.
 
I would assume that the A&P your friend recommended is VERY familiar with arrows and knows that particular model's service history and peculiarities (what to look for) ? If he is not, you may want to find an Arrow guy.
 
RB*, why a T-tail Arrow? Too good of a deal to pass?

*Long time no see :) Happy belated BDay
 
sdflyer said:
I checked them already as well as an airplane history. I flown the airplane for about 10 hours with a client. So I'm averagely familiar with it.

Pre-buy is scheduled with mechanic who has been referred to me by another aircraft owner. So I'm planning to use him for annuals. The mechanic is third party and doesn't have anything to do with seller.

I'm planning to spend the whole day during the pre-buy. Just wondering what useful things I could do while mechanic is working on the airplane :)
Click to expand...

Scratch off lottery tickets...:wink2:
 
Perezhr said:
I would assume that the A&P your friend recommended is VERY familiar with arrows and knows that particular model's service history and peculiarities (what to look for) ? If he is not, you may want to find an Arrow guy.
Click to expand...

Yes he serviced Arrows before


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moonshine said:
RB*, why a T-tail Arrow? Too good of a deal to pass?

*Long time no see :) Happy belated BDay
Click to expand...

Hmmm thanks. Please update my senior moment how do we know each other?


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Ron Levy said:
Get copies of the logbooks and other maintenance records first. If they aren't right, it's not worth traveling to look at the plane.
Click to expand...

Log books are easy to fix, I'd fly the aircraft before any inspection, and check every piece of equipment installed to see if it works or not, Specially auto pilots nav heads etc, that stuff isn't cheap, and the annual will not tell you if it works or not.
I know one PA 28 that required a half a rudder pedal input to make the needle center, but it passed the annual.

THe FAA.Gov web page now has a new AD search feature, any one can check ADs if they know the equipment list of the aircraft.
 
sdflyer said:
Hmmm thanks. Please update my senior moment how do we know each other?

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Not until you fess up why a T-tail Arrow!!! :ihih:
jk

used to frequent the sukhoi forum 2002-2007
 
moonshine said:
Not until you fess up why a T-tail Arrow!!! :ihih:
jk

used to frequent the sukhoi forum 2002-2007
Click to expand...


ok it explains it then!

T-tail because is that what they made in 1980 :lol:
 
If you haven't already, I suggest getting copies of every invoice and work order and making sure it is all in the log book. Sometimes problems are reported to the A&P, get checked or worked on but nothing makes it to the logbook. One thing I found when I replaced my transponder was that the transponder in the plane didn't match the last one referenced in the log book. Someone replaced it without logging it.

sdflyer said:
I checked them already as well as an airplane history. I flown the airplane for about 10 hours with a client. So I'm averagely familiar with it.

Pre-buy is scheduled with mechanic who has been referred to me by another aircraft owner. So I'm planning to use him for annuals. The mechanic is third party and doesn't have anything to do with seller.

I'm planning to spend the whole day during the pre-buy. Just wondering what useful things I could do while mechanic is working on the airplane :)
Click to expand...
 
JOhnH said:
If you haven't already, I suggest getting copies of every invoice and work order and making sure it is all in the log book. Sometimes problems are reported to the A&P, get checked or worked on but nothing makes it to the logbook. One thing I found when I replaced my transponder was that the transponder in the plane didn't match the last one referenced in the log book. Someone replaced it without logging it.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks. I got the logbooks already on my hands
 
sdflyer said:
ok it explains it then!

T-tail because is that what they made in 1980 :lol:
Click to expand...

I meant it more along the lines of "why the heck an Arrow?", but hope it works out alright for you :)

At the very least it sports the sexy T-tail :D
 
JOhnH;1234489One thing I found when I replaced my transponder was that the transponder in the plane didn't match the last one referenced in the log book. Someone replaced it without logging it.[/QUOTE said:
NO!!! Mon Dieu, I've never HEARD of such a thing!!

.
.
Click to expand...
 
sdflyer said:
I'm planning to spend the whole day during the pre-buy. Just wondering what useful things I could do while mechanic is working on the airplane :)
Click to expand...

Look through all the STC's and 337's to be sure all the documents match up and that the users manuals are in the records and that the supplement section of the logbook includes everything that's supposed to be there (and also note all the stuff that's in the supplements that should be removed if the equipment is not installed in the plane.) It's not unusual for manufacturers to include all the supplements for any equipment that might have been installed at the factory, much of which is N/A for your particular plane.
 
You could do that, or just step back, admire and take a nice picture or two to post here
 
Just a little update. Prebuy revealed serious issues, so it turns to no buy. Oh well still looking ..
 
Good.
As in, bad, but on the grand scheme of things good.
Are you looking to lease it back to the club and/or use it for flight training after you buy it? Otherwise there's no really good reason to buy an Arrow.
 
moonshine said:
Good.
As in, bad, but on the grand scheme of things good.
Are you looking to lease it back to the club and/or use it for flight training after you buy it? Otherwise there's no really good reason to buy an Arrow.
Click to expand...

Amen, just buy a Bonanza and be done with it, you'll save money in the long run.
 
moonshine said:
Good.
As in, bad, but on the grand scheme of things good.
Are you looking to lease it back to the club and/or use it for flight training after you buy it? Otherwise there's no really good reason to buy an Arrow.
Click to expand...

It was a club airplane which already was making money


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Henning said:
Amen, just buy a Bonanza and be done with it, you'll save money in the long run.
Click to expand...

My friend already has Bonanza. Not a good airplane for a flight instruction - great for a personal use.


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