Practice approaches in actual

flyersfan31

flyersfan31

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Freiburgfan31
Depending on how the weather turns out tomorrow, I plan to do some flying in actual. My question is, when the weather is IFR, how amenable are controllers to allowing multiple practice approaches? Ideally I'd like to shoot 2 or 3, then land, debrief, and pick up a clearance to the next airport. I was thinking about going to Reading and Lancaster, both Class D, figuring it would be better to work with towers. It's not forecast to be low IFR, maybe 1000ft ceilings giving way to 2500+.

Any thoughts? I figure I can always ask for multi approaches, the worst they can say is no, but I was wondering if it's frowned upon or not.
 
Lancaster and Reading seem like they might be good choices as they have independent approach control from Philly. Put "multiple approaches requested" in the remarks field and the clearance delivery controller may see it and inform the tracon folks.

I've gotten multiple approaches at these airports in the past, operating out of Frederick.
 
It depends on the amount of traffic at the time you do it. Lancaster can get pretty busy, so it may be a good idea to call Harrisburg Approach (or Reading Approach, as appropriate) and ask them what are the good/bad times for this. The good news is that when the weather is IMC, the VFR traffic disappears, which can actually make more room for practice approaches unless there's a wad of IFR inbounds.
 
It depends is the best answer. Make sure you put the words multiple approaches in your flight plan remarks and as approach when you make contact if that will be ok. I have had the tower close my flight plan and mess that whole thing up once.
 
Another "it depends." At MSN it's quite easy to get multiple approaches when there's good actual. You may not get the ILS to 18 or 36 (the runway most often used by airlines) unless there's a break in the airline traffic, but that's what the ILS 21 is for. :D I try to go up and shoot some approaches whenever there's flyable IFR, and they've always been great about it.

So, "it depends" also on the configuration of that particular airspace and the available approaches as well as traffic density and other factors.
 
Thanks all. It worked out well today. Nice thick stratus, warm so no ice, 1.8hrs of honest actual out of 2.6 total, 6 approaches in actual, including one truly missed (no sign of the runway anywhere at MAP) and an ILS to minimums. ATC was very cooperative. I did all my work at Reading, and Reading Apprch and Tower were quite helpful.

I wasn't sure if "multiple approaches" would get a "who does he think he is flying around practicing, doesn't he know we have ifr weather here?" or a "how can we help you." Certainly the choice of airports helps. As Ron said, KLNS might not have been able to accomodate as easily, and I didn't even bother trying over at Northeast Philly.

Also had my first "controllers make mistakes too" learning experience. On the way back Philly Approach got the waypoints for GPS6 at LOM mixed up with GPS24. They wanted me to shoot 6, but sent me to HOMWE instead. I was scratching my head a bit, and when she called me for clarification on where I was going, we got it sorted out pretty quickly. When in doubt, ask 'em.
 
Avoiding the morning and evening rush hours when the bizjets, UPS & FedEx are particularly active has always been helpful to me.

flyersfan31 said:
Thanks all. It worked out well today. Nice thick stratus, warm so no ice, 1.8hrs of honest actual out of 2.6 total, 6 approaches in actual, including one truly missed (no sign of the runway anywhere at MAP) and an ILS to minimums. ATC was very cooperative. I did all my work at Reading, and Reading Apprch and Tower were quite helpful.

I wasn't sure if "multiple approaches" would get a "who does he think he is flying around practicing, doesn't he know we have ifr weather here?" or a "how can we help you." Certainly the choice of airports helps. As Ron said, KLNS might not have been able to accomodate as easily, and I didn't even bother trying over at Northeast Philly.

Also had my first "controllers make mistakes too" learning experience. On the way back Philly Approach got the waypoints for GPS6 at LOM mixed up with GPS24. They wanted me to shoot 6, but sent me to HOMWE instead. I was scratching my head a bit, and when she called me for clarification on where I was going, we got it sorted out pretty quickly. When in doubt, ask 'em.
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I don't get it. IF you're told no, can't you just keep going missed? Seems this would accomplish the same goal without a controller telling you no.

Am I missing something?
 
SkyHog said:
I don't get it. IF you're told no, can't you just keep going missed? Seems this would accomplish the same goal without a controller telling you no.

Am I missing something?
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No, not unless your goal is to pi$$ off the controller and get yourself put in a hold at the edge of their airspace. It's not as if they wouldn't know you're trying to game the system and mess up their sequencing. Heck, if it's actual, I'm luck to be able to get a word in to the Chicago Approach folks handling DuPage.
 
once again folks, move to iowa. ive never had a problem getting multiple approaches for practice in actual. especially if you go out to the more rural airports that are handled by center. they usually just seem happy to have something to do. Minneapolis Center that is.
 
Reading is always a good place to practice approaches, rather quiet and the controllers are usually really good. LNS would not present you a problem either, particularly on an IMC day. I have many times done practice approaches both in VMC and IMC at these two airports. I recommend spending time at LNS over RDG only because LNS has the VOR on the field, and many different VOR approaches.

I've never had a problem doing multiple practice approaches at LNS, no matter the time of day. The controllers sometimes have you break off an approach before the missed in VMC with several VFR aircraft landing and departing, but they are very accomodating with practice approaches.

I also recommend that you do a round robin between LNS and MDT. You can go up, shoot the ILS 31 at MDT, then turn around and shoot the GPS8 from Olbec intersection. The time to get that second approach set up is quite short. It's good practice in loading and flying a GPS approach. Again, Harrisburg is quite accomodating.

The only approach issue that I have in with the approaches into runway 26 at LNS. There seems to be a frequent inability of Reading approach and Harrisburg approach to coordinate to make those approaches, the VOR DME 26 and GPS 26, happen.

For any of these runs, I just file a round robin IFR plan, with "practice approaches, LNS MDT RDG" sort of language. That seems to work fine, usually.

Ymmv, of course.

Jim G
 
gprellwitz said:
No, not unless your goal is to pi$$ off the controller and get yourself put in a hold at the edge of their airspace. It's not as if they wouldn't know you're trying to game the system and mess up their sequencing. Heck, if it's actual, I'm luck to be able to get a word in to the Chicago Approach folks handling DuPage.
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grant is right a lot of actual IMC also increases the stress level for ATC too. Going missed can really hose up what they have planned. A reall missed is somehting they will deal with but if you just keep doing them to get mulitple approaches in when they said that they cannot accomendate multiple approaches will not make you any friends and most likely will get you in a long hold at the edge of their airspace.
 
I heard Houston Center outright deny a clearance for multiple practice approaches to an aircraft seeking to depart and do same at KERV one day. "I'm much too busy to handle that today".

Of course, he did have legitimate departing traffic from KERV (me) - I called for my clearance just after he cut off the other guy. I was, naturally, up there for real IMC practice - difference being that I filed in, then a separate plan out, making it look like two separate trips.....
 
Advise ATC early on in a flight if you want multiple appch's, no matter what you put on the flight plan. If I am flying to another airport for appch's, say twenty miles away, I tell them soon's I'm at cruise and the airplane is all set up. If the frequency is busy, I often preface it with something like "you guys sound busy, any chance we could do a couple appch's at XYX when we get there?" letting them know we would like it but understand they might not. Sometimes, they'll say, sure, then after one or two they'll come on and say they really can't do any more due to traffic increase or whatever. That's the time to politely and briefly thank them and go ahead and land or ask to pick up your next flight plan back home or wherever you are going. They respond nicely, almost always, if you keep them in the loop and are nice in return. Also helps the next pilot who wants the same opportunity....

Also, another thing you can do, if they want you to land due to following IFR traffic, if it is sensible where you are flying you can ask them to have you go do a hold somewhere for practice, let the traffic shoot the appch and land, then you get another one. Sometimes they are fine with this, and it is simply more practice for you.
 
gprellwitz said:
No, not unless your goal is to pi$$ off the controller and get yourself put in a hold at the edge of their airspace. It's not as if they wouldn't know you're trying to game the system and mess up their sequencing. Heck, if it's actual, I'm luck to be able to get a word in to the Chicago Approach folks handling DuPage.
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I go out to Rockford for practice approaches. They are very accomodating and professional.
My experience has been similar when the weather goes down around Chicago Approach's airspace.:blueplane:
ApacheBob
 
ApacheBob said:
I go out to Rockford for practice approaches. They are very accomodating and professional.
My experience has been similar when the weather goes down around Chicago Approach's airspace.:blueplane:
ApacheBob
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I agree about RFD but I have noticed the C90 guys give minimal service even in VMC around Chicago. I often will be told by KARR Tower to not even bother asking for approach vectors and navigate on my own for the approach.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong-
I heard that the controllers need practice in handling IFR approaches- My understanding is they need to maintain currency as well. Every one you log is one for the controller as well so if a controller needs to pick up a few log entries, you're actually helping him/her.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong-
I heard that the controllers need practice in handling IFR approaches- My understanding is they need to maintain currency as well. Every one you log is one for the controller as well so if a controller needs to pick up a few log entries, you're actually helping him/her.
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To a certain extent that's true, especially for military controllers doing radar approaches (ASR/PAR). However, at most TRACON's, the controllers get all the traffic they need for currency, and then some.
 
Ron Levy said:
To a certain extent that's true, especially for military controllers doing radar approaches (ASR/PAR). However, at most TRACON's, the controllers get all the traffic they need for currency, and then some.
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I was reading my latest issue of Twin & Turbine and saw an interesting article by Ron Levy about when a person should consider taking along a second pilot, even though not required to do so by the regs. Lots of good points in it!

Good job, Ron.
 
slwool said:
I was reading my latest issue of Twin & Turbine and saw an interesting article by Ron Levy about when a person should consider taking along a second pilot, even though not required to do so by the regs. Lots of good points in it!

Good job, Ron.
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When should I take along a second pilot? Every time! SInce it's my wife, she get's ****ed if she's left behind! :goofy:
 
Anyone know if there's a way to get a sample copy of "Twin and Turbine," I've never seen one.... Their web site is quite minimal.
 
Baron 55 said:
Anyone know if there's a way to get a sample copy of "Twin and Turbine," I've never seen one.... Their web site is quite minimal.
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I used to get a free copy, but haven't seen one for a while. In fact I think the last one was just before Ken took over... Hmmm.:D
 
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