Pope Francis

[Jay Honeck]

What is driving healthcare cost is that people are old and sick.

Um, people have been "old and sick" since the beginning of time. That's what we DO.

Keep looking for reasons. That ain't one of them.

 

[wabower]

So nobody is deserving of respect if you haven't heard of them?

How should people who don't know you from a load of coal feel about you?

Actually, agnostic, if you understand and appreciate the difference...and ******n proud of it. But you feel free to pray for my soul of you object to my blasphemy.



You never heard of this dude until now. Respect is earned.

 

[RoscoeT]

Oh, I will. Your comments, however, strike me as leaning more toward Atheism. Of course, I wouldn't presume to know that. I'm just saying that your comments seemed rather strong for an agnostic, who by definition wouldn't be convinced enough one way or another to have such strong opinions on the matter.

But that's just me.

I'll light a candle for you, anyway.

-Rich

Let me put it this way... I don't understand how the universe was created. There could possibly be an intelligent force. No human will EVER know the answer to this question. Those who use religion to claim they do understand are just as haughty, gullible, and ignorant as those humans 2000 years ago who believed that animals were made of mud and rotten flesh. Oops, sorry...bad example - that's too close to the creationism fairy tale. Does that force give a **** about humans? I don't think so. But I'm ******n sure human fairy tales don't explain it. That there is the difference between atheism and agnosticism.

So nobody is deserving of respect if you haven't heard of them?

How should people who don't know you from a load of coal feel about you?

If you read what I wrote, they should have no respect for me... because they don't know me.

 

[weilke]

Um, people have been "old and sick" since the beginning of time. That's what we DO.

Keep looking for reasons. That ain't one of them.

People are getting older and more people are getting old (or more precisely life-expectancy has been rising since the introduction of the social insurance programs and with the baby-boomers pushing into medicare age the aged population is increasing). After you take both factors out, core medical inflation is a small fraction of the numbers used by the politicos for their purposes.

 

[N801BH]

People are getting older and more people are getting old (or more precisely life-expectancy has been rising since the introduction of the social insurance programs and with the baby-boomers pushing into medicare age the aged population is increasing). After you take both factors out, core medical inflation is a small fraction of the numbers used by the politicos for their purposes.

If you were really involved in the medical community you would know the two huge driving forces for obscene medical coast are:

1- Preventative medicine

2- Fraud and abuse.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Good grief... This thread was started to honor a man that has selflessly served humanity for a lifetime, and has provided stellar leadership to one of the oldest and most successful organizations ever known to man. He's been honored and raised to the highest possible position this side of heaven... and we end up discussing everyone's personal grievance with the church in general. (billing rates, bad nuns, perverted priests, land holdings, financial successes, bingo night proceeds, angry agnostics...really!) I'm done. He deserves more respect than this.

I'm just glad the new pope doesn't look like Darth Sidious.

Having been raised Catholic, that really creeped me out.

 

[weilke]

If you were really involved in the medical community you would know the two huge driving forces for obscene medical coast are:

1- Preventative medicine

2- Fraud and abuse.

Thank you for your humorous post.

 

[wabower]

The reason that referrals are a strong factor in the selection process (and that ebay has a feedback function) is that people are willing to accept the opinions of others with first-hand experience with someone they don't know. You think maybe that might be a factor in the papal process as well?

Let me put it this way... I don't understand how the universe was created. There could possibly be an intelligent force. No human will EVER know the answer to this question. Those who use religion to claim they do understand are just as haughty, gullible, and ignorant as those humans 2000 years ago who believed that animals were made of mud and rotten flesh. Oops, sorry...bad example - that's too close to the creationism fairy tale. Does that force give a **** about humans? I don't think so. But I'm ******n sure human fairy tales don't explain it. That there is the difference between atheism and agnosticism.



If you read what I wrote, they should have no respect for me... because they don't know me.

 

[flyingron]

I just thought the whole selection process was time to watch my two favorite movies on the subject:

Shoes of the Fisherman with Anthony Quinn as Pope Kiril and a cast of a few (Laurence Olivier, David Janssen, Sir John Gielgud). The book is by Morris West is outstanding as well.

And there's my other fav, The Pope Must Die(t), feature Robby "Hagrid" Coltrane and Paul Bartel and Herbert "Inspector Dreyfus" Lom. That one always gets me rolling.

 

[bluee]

It receives contributions from the national churches. Some of these funds are raised via taxes. In germany and switzerland for example, anyone registered as a church member will pay a church-tax that is calculated off his federal or state income tax bill. In the 1800s, the goverment expropriated the respective national churches and took away their income producing assets like farmland and forests (they used to work like land-grant universities in the US). In exchange the goverment committed to collecting those taxes on behalf of the church.

This is true. I lived in Germany for several years. When you move to a new town in Germany, you have to register with the local authorities, at which time they ask you which religion you are, and you are then taxed. We happened to live in the same building as the local parish priest, and he was not a nice person. He was dismissive and rude, and I was so upset at his behavior to me, that I made my husband go down to the local office and remove my name from the Catholic register and declare me as no religion. I just refused to pay any tax that supported that priest. What I probably should have done is written a letter explaining my grievances to whomever was in charge.

When my very Catholic parents came to visit, they too remarked at how off-putting that priest was, and mother commented she would have second thoughts about going to that church again.

 

[steingar]

Good grief... This thread was started to honor a man that has selflessly served humanity for a lifetime, and has provided stellar leadership to one of the oldest and most successful organizations ever known to man. He's been honored and raised to the highest possible position this side of heaven... and we end up discussing everyone's personal grievance with the church in general. (billing rates, bad nuns, perverted priests, land holdings, financial successes, bingo night proceeds, angry agnostics...really!) I'm done. He deserves more respect than this.

I am afraid I must agree.

The solution to the church/tax question is really quite simple. Remove the income tax deduction for charitable donations. Problem solved.

 

[JHW]

I am afraid I must agree.

The solution to the church/tax question is really quite simple. Remove the income tax deduction for charitable donations. Problem solved.

so you propose to demonstrate the value of religious organizations at the expense of the poor and invalid ?

when it comes to assisting the poor, the homeless, the orphaned child, various churches, synagogs, and mosques carry more of the burden than do governments in most states. When it comes to social issues, if you are not a church contributor then you are effectively being subsided by those who are. Take that away and you can substantially increase your marginal tax rates to pick up the slack.

 

[Tom-D]

Do you know why the Pope had a difficult time checking out of the hotel?


He checked in under a different name.

 

[steingar]

so you propose to demonstrate the value of religious organizations at the expense of the poor and invalid ?

No, I propose to remove a tax loophole. Won't stop the truly charitable from donating to the institutions of their choice.

when it comes to assisting the poor, the homeless, the orphaned child, various churches, synagogs, and mosques carry more of the burden than do governments in most states. When it comes to social issues, if you are not a church contributor then you are effectively being subsided by those who are. Take that away and you can substantially increase your marginal tax rates to pick up the slack.

I in no way proposed any detriment to folks giving charitable donations. I simply proposed removing their tax deduction. Folks will still donate to charities without it.

 

[RJM62]

I am afraid I must agree.

The solution to the church/tax question is really quite simple. Remove the income tax deduction for charitable donations. Problem solved.

Well.. more like problem traded for far worse ones. The collateral damage would be enormous. Schools, universities, hospitals, social service agencies, scouting groups, PBS... simple, but not very practical.

I completely agree with regard to the way this thread wandered, though. People can have their opinions of the church, or religion in general; but this thread was about a man -- and one who, in my opinion, has started cleaning house already, albeit in very subtle ways, starting with the name he chose:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/15/world/europe/pope-francis.html

So if you have issues with the church, at least consider that this man seems to be signalling that a cleanup is in the works.

-Rich

 

[steingar]

Well.. more like problem traded for far worse ones. The collateral damage would be enormous. Schools, universities, hospitals, social service agencies, scouting groups, PBS... simple, but not very practical.

Are they "too big to fail". If a charitable institution can't support itself with charitable donations, it's time for it to go. Folks gave to charity before the deduction, heck they gave before income tax.

 

[nddons]

No, I propose to remove a tax loophole. Won't stop the truly charitable from donating to the institutions of their choice.



I in no way proposed any detriment to folks giving charitable donations. I simply proposed removing their tax deduction. Folks will still donate to charities without it.

Can you define a "loophole"?

 

[Tom-D]

I am afraid I must agree.

The solution to the church/tax question is really quite simple. Remove the income tax deduction for charitable donations. Problem solved.

The cure is a lot simpler than that, simply delete the income tax all together and adjust the Federal excise tax to include all goods and services except basic food items.

no income tax, no loop holes, every one gets to pay their fare share.

 

[wabower]

There are many things they didn't do as well. Would home purchase numbers change if the interest deduction were repealed?

Are they "too big to fail". If a charitable institution can't support itself with charitable donations, it's time for it to go. Folks gave to charity before the deduction, heck they gave before income tax.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Bury your head in the sand if you like.

It is just ignorance for anyone to claim that Catholics tolerate or support what has happened. They don't. 99.999999999% have voiced their disdain by changing church or withholding tithing to the point of bankrupting the main sources of the corruption. It is just ignorance for outsiders to say its just business as usual.

Many churches have closed because of the amount of folks who vote with their feet or vote with their tithing....moved from one church to another, or who quit or who greatly reduced their donations and support.

So it is just plain stupid and disgusting for some ****ing morons to make statements like they have.

Now if you want to condemn those who perpetrated, facilitated or covered up the problem, I am with you, lets hang them bastards by their toes and rip the skin from their bodies and feed them to the birds.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Relative to their operating revenue, this is 2.7%, the competitor in town spends 0.9% and the much larger Barnes Jewish system spends 0.4%.

Do you really think a 1.8-2.3% difference in advertising budget is responsible for your healthcare cost ??

('barking up the wrong tree' is the technical term)

I agree....don't know what some are thinking.

I have even spent more than 25% of my gross revenues on advertising to grow my businesses and have doubled my size every 6 months for a period of 2 years.

It is obvious some people around here do not know much about business let alone health business.

What is that saying "better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt."

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

The easiest way to fix this mess is for the congress to change the laws and remove religious organizations from the tax exempt status... We will find out REAL quick who is a god fearing christian and who was looking for a healthy deduction....... Personally I would bet 1/2 the churches would fold up within 2 years... Funny also when people add their insight into a religious issue, we get labeled as Athiests..

I would like to see congress take away tax deductible status for all and all non profits and all museums....

If you want to support something with your donations do it.... No more governmental support or winks and nods for any non profits...

While we are at it do away with deduct-ability of health insurance and home mortgage deductions....people should buy and live in what they can afford without government support. Or at very least means test it to not be deductible past $50k per year in interest.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Funny also when people add their insight into a religious issue, we get labeled as Athiests..

I wasn't thinking Athiests, I was thinking many of these guys are Idiots.

 

[olasek]

Now if you want to condemn those who perpetrated, facilitated or covered up the problem, I am with you, lets hang them bastards by their toes and rip the skin from their bodies and feed them to the birds.

I would also feed to the birds all those psychologists, therapists and 'experts' who often were hired by the Church to advise on this matter. Their verdict was often that priest X.Y can be cured, you only have to do A, B and C and everything will be fine and he can return to active ministry. If we rave at culpability of everyone around we should not forget about what this 'expert' advice was worth.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

What is driving healthcare cost is that people are old and sick.

no greedy doctors, greedy hospital administrators, greedy insurance executives....corruption and lack of ethics is what corrupts the health industry.

Evil: monsanto
Dick Cheney
Drug companies
jama;ama.....
insurance execs....
on the bottom of the list are food companies, tobacco companies and oil companies...(the obvious rapers of the planet).

 

[steingar]

There are many things they didn't do as well. Would home purchase numbers change if the interest deduction were repealed?

Doesn't matter. Everyone has to live somewhere, doesn't matter who owns it. Folks lived in houses before the tax deduction, and again before the income tax.

Why someone who doesn't own a house should subsidize me I haven't a clue, doesn't seem fair at all. Why I should subsidize houses of worship that demonize my people is also beyond me. The income tax is in the Constitution, the deductions aren't.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

I would also feed to the birds all those psychologists, therapists and 'experts' who often were hired by the Church to advise on this matter. Their verdict was often that priest X.Y can be cured, you only have to do A, B and C and everything will be fine and he can return to active ministry. If we rave at culpability of everyone around we should not forget about what this 'expert' advice was worth.

I think what might have been, at one time, a culture of forgiveness for the sinner, has been corrupted into tolerating the obscene....It makes me very angry.

It needs be cleaned out and disinfected with the light of day.

This will never happen but First thing I would do if I were pope is to do away with the oath of celibacy and open it up to marriage....maybe root out some of the pedophile fags. Maybe even require marriage(to a women) to become a priest from now on.

Then I'd go over to the boy scouts and Big brothers and big sisters organizations and clean house there too.

 

[flyingron]

Do you know why the Pope had a difficult time checking out of the hotel?


He checked in under a different name.

Actually, Francis took the bus back to the residence with the other cardinals after election and even tried to pay for his room.

 

[EppyGA]

Can you define a "loophole"?

In certain circles it is defined as a legal tax deduction under the current tax code.

 

[wabower]

More commonly it's a tax deduction allowed by the code but not available to the one who is complaining about it. Those for which he/she is eligible are referred to as incentives.

In certain circles it is defined as a legal tax deduction under the current tax code.

 

[nddons]

In certain circles it is defined as a legal tax deduction under the current tax code.

More commonly it's a tax deduction allowed by the code but not available to the one who is complaining about it. Those for which he/she is eligible are referred to as incentives.

Smart men here.

There are very, very few "loopholes", which imply that taxpayers are taking unintended advantage of an error or omission in a statute.

People who misuse the term "loophole", including my guy Paul Ryan, are actually speaking about legal, intended deductions that have fallen out of favor of Congress or the DiC (Demagogue in Chief). But if you trace the legislative intent of any tax statute, you will find a rational reason for it.

It has become worse since the government started referring to deductions as "expenditures", which they are not by any measure. To think that way implies that all income belongs to the government, and that by its good graces it allows us to keep some of the fruit of our labor.

 

[N801BH]

................
It has become worse since the government started referring to deductions as "expenditures", which they are not by any measure. To think that way implies that all income belongs to the government, and that by its good graces it allows us to keep some of the fruit of our labor.

Quote of the century....