Poll: Fatalities

[Gary Sortor]

Fatalities. This is not a pleasant topic, but it came up in a seminar at Sun 'n Fun starring John and Martha King in their risk management seminar. They asked the audience if they knew someone -- family member or friend -- that was killed in an airplane accident. I was surprised at the number of hands that went up. Here's a poll for our group.

 

[John J]

Gary;

Thanks for the poll. Yes it is unpleasent subject but it is a subject that is always in the back of my mind. I like others have lost close friends in accidents. I work on the addage my old flight instructor told me years ago. "Flying is always a learning experience" and accidents are part of that experience." He learned to fly in the early 1920s when accidents were so numerous. Yes it would be wonderfull to be able to have a goal of no fatalites ever but that is un realistic. I lost a very close friend and mentor at a young age at 16 who pushed on VFR when he should have landed. His accident has stayed with me and I will never push on nor over do it. His death of pushing on tought me a very big life lesson. It is a "Touchy Subject" for many but we can all learn from your poll.

Best Regards

John J

 

[poadeleted3]

Actually, I'm not sure how much we can really learn from this poll, or sticking your hand up in a room full of pilots. Sure, lots of people know someone killed in aviation, but I think too many people are distorting that fact into something it's not. I do have a friend who was killed in an aircraft accident. I've also got a father killed in a shooting accident, a great grandmother killed in a car accident, a cop friend killed in the line of duty, another cop friend who blew his head off with a 12 guage one night, an uncle who was stabbed to death in Akron, on and on and on. Death is part of life. The aviation community is a small close knit one, and as result when a pilot is killed, there is a better than average chance you'll know them. When someone starts exploiting that, I start wondering what their real point is. Now, if you want to break down the senseless ways some pilots have killed themselves and their families, and you may learn you may learn something, which is why I find things like ASF's accident reports so useful. Same for NASA's ASRS reports.

 

[gismo]

Actually, I'm not sure how much we can really learn from this poll, or sticking your hand up in a room full of pilots. Sure, lots of people know someone killed in aviation, but I think too many people are distorting that fact into something it's not.

The significance is unclear, but still I think the fact that half of the pilot population knew a pilot who was killed while flying is a bit sobering. I can think of three pilots who would have known me by name and were killed or seriously injured while flying and I'd guess that there's maybe a hundred pilots that know me by name. I can't think of many other activitys I'm involved with that kind of record. I know a lot more automobile drivers than pilots yet I can only think of one or two that were killed in a car accident in the last 20 years.

I believe that there are about 500,000 active pilots in the US and I'd guess that at least 80% fly GA airplanes. It seems that GA kills about 250 pilots per year or 5000 in 20 years. That ought to mean that 1% of the active pilots are likely to die flying in a 20 year period.

What does that mean? I don't really know except that I'm trying pretty hard to be in the other 99% and so far have succeeded.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

The significance is unclear, but still I think the fact that half of the pilot population knew a pilot who was killed while flying is a bit sobering. I can think of three pilots who would have known me by name and were killed or seriously injured while flying and I'd guess that there's maybe a hundred pilots that know me by name. I can't think of many other activitys I'm involved with that kind of record. I know a lot more automobile drivers than pilots yet I can only think of one or two that were killed in a car accident in the last 20 years.

Yeah. What Lance wrote.

I've been flying since 1986. During one 18-month period, as one friend put it, "If you knew Ed, and you were a pilot, you're dead now." During that period four pilot friends/acquaintances killed in plane crashes. My total is now at five. OTOH, I've been aware of cars and automobile accidents since what? Oh, about 1962? In that entire time there has been one automobile fatality where I knew the person (my cousin). As Lance said, I know how many pilots? 100 is probably way overboard for me. I know how many drivers? Can you say thousands?

On the day of my checkride, my primary instructor phrased Lance's parting comment rather succinctly: "Hang around aviation long enough and people you know will die. Don't be one of them."

 

[bbchien]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001205X00520&key=1: president of the local bank and his wife; Orthodontist and his wife. Worst part is the toxicology indicates they were alive for a short period in the fire.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010619X01205&key=1: An orthodontist with too little time in his book and hubris. Took his sweetie wife with him, despite continued warnings not to go. This pilot had the BAD habit of reaching down to the floor at 45 to the downwind, losing the horizon. I never signed him off on his aerostar (two birds before the Mitsu).

Become a student of errors. Otherwise you will re-live them. I knew all the occupants of both ships. It's why I'm so fanatic.

 

[AdamZ]

Bruce: Why did he reach to the floor. In the Pipers you have to reach down to grab the bar for the flaps. When I reach down I keep my eyes outside and just lean right and grab the bar.

 

[Alan]

It really is a small community. Stay in it for a while and, yes, you will know someone.

 

[bbchien]

That's where he left his plates and charts. I could never break him of the habit.

 

[Gary Sortor]

Sure, lots of people know someone killed in aviation, but I think too many people are distorting that fact into something it's not

John and Martha King made the point in their risk management seminar that flying is a risky activity and that we, as pilots, need to recognize that risk to effectively manage it. They used the technique of polling the audience to help debunk the myth that flying in small planes is as safe as (or safer than) driving. They said the risk in flying in small planes was similar to the risk in motorcycle riding . How many times have we heard it said that small airplane flying is safer than driving? Perhaps, the attitude that it is safer than it really is contributes to complacency, unnecessary risk taking, VFR flight into IMC, etc. They have a good point and I'm glad the Kings have the guts to stand up against industry criticism to help make flying a safer activity.

 

[Everskyward]

John and Martha King made the point in their risk management seminar that flying is a risky activity and that we, as pilots, need to recognize that risk to effectively manage it.

Absolutely! Hopefully it doesn't take surviving your own holy crap moment (which you will have if you fly enough) to realize that.

I've been lucky enough not to have lost any close friends or family to a flying accident, but I've had a fair number of acquaintances and quite a few friends of friends die in airplane accidents. Compared to that, I only can remember a couple people who have died in car accidents and that was back when I was in high school. That said, the worst accident I have ever witnessed was a motor vehicle accident, small car head on into a cement mixer right in front of me which ended with a fatality. Definitely a holy crap moment.

 

[maximus]

Both of my Aerobatic instructors at ERAU collided in formation flight.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040910X01395&key=1

Unfortunately, I was flying gliders at the time and saw the wreckage. Very said. God bless Mike Caradi and Bob Swiginess.

Maximus

 

[Carol]

Both of my Aerobatic instructors at ERAU collided in formation flight. Unfortunately, I was flying gliders at the time and saw the wreckage. Very said. God bless Mike Caradi and Bob Swiginess.

Maximus

I read about that. I am sorry you saw that, Max. It must have been pretty difficult.

I am also glad you flew again. Some people can't get past something like that. My girlfriend and one of the line guys were the first at the wreckage of a flaming crash at our airport. She didn't fly for a long time. I was really worried about her but finally she came around. The guy ended up quitting his job at the airport and his flying lessons.

 

[maximus]

I read about that. I am sorry you saw that, Max. It must have been pretty difficult.


I am also glad you flew again. Some people can't get past something like that. My girlfriend and one of the line guys were the first at the wreckage of a flaming crash at our airport. She didn't fly for a long time. I was really worried about her but finally she came around. The guy ended up quitting his job at the airport and his flying lessons.

It was defiantly a OMG situation. I tried to just ignore it and go on (don't recommend). I have not't flown aerobatics sense but I think I am ready. I think that's what Bob and Mike would want me to. They absolutely loved what they where doing.

Maximus

 

[Carol]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040910X01395&key=1


It was defiantly a OMG situation. I tried to just ignore it and go on (don't recommend). I have not't flown aerobatics sense but I think I am ready. I think that's what Bob and Mike would want the absolutely loved what they where doing.

Maximus

Hang in there, Max. You are young. It's not the last time someone you know will die flying. Just take care of yourself so we don't end up one day saying, "Oh yeh, I knew him" about you.

 

[drhunt]

I flew for over 5 years before someone I knew became an aviation fatality. Then late last summer, there were 3 accidents in just a little over a month, the last making national headlines. I knew the pilots on all of them. I had even discussed the earlier accidents with the pilots of the later accidents. Disbelief still remains and I still question how such capable, knowledgeable pilots went down. It demonstrates clearly the seriousness of this activity. I don't take the wonder of flight for granted, nor our human fragility. So I try to take it seriously, yet savor the moments in the sky and with those with whom we share this passion.

Fly safely...fly often!

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040825X01285&key=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040908X01367&key=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040908X01367&key=1